lws43 1 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 would it be legal when adding a flash suppersor to cut the barrel off the same lenght that the suppressor adds extend the threads and epoxying it on rather then welding it to make it permanent? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Good question, it's legal on ARs but I'm not sure if the same applies to shotguns. Would also like to know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TIMTIMTIM 57 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) If its under 18" for any amount of time its illegal. There was a thread on the forums somehwere about is. Legal way is to have a licensed gunsmith do it. Also if the gun is under 18" and the flash hider is used to make 18" it must be permanent (ie welding). Edited June 2, 2012 by TIMTIMTIM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Also, some people have used silver solder which you can do yourself if you don't have welding equipment Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 epoxy is absolutely not legal, it has to be permanently attached, epoxy does not count as permanent, silver solder it or weld it Legal way is to have a licensed gunsmith do it. not really, the legal way is to remove your barrel, and i believe someone on here (bonesteel arms maybe) has a letter from the atf that says you don't even have to remove the barrel if you intend to immediately permanently attach a brake, i know someone will come in here and try to argue but it's all bullshit and hearsay until they have a letter from the atf to back up their claims Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socom688 217 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Like Russian Hammer said, silver solder or weld it. I did a good amount of research, and from what I have gathered, the barrel has to be taken out of the receiver for you to do it, otherwise it has to be done by a licensed gun smith. Unlike what Russian Hammer said, I have/had no idea that if you intend to immediately attach a brake permanently, you can do it without removing the barrel from the receiver. With that though, I'd suggest the ol' see-it-to-believe-it way of going about it. So track down whoever has the letter, but until then, might as well do it either 2 ways: send to someone who is licensed, or take the barrel out. Better safe than sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 i've actually seen the letter posted that says you can do it if you intend to immediately solder/weld a brake on for 18" total, I would always suggest you remove the barrel just to stay safe, but if the ATF kicks down your door at the exact time you have the barrel cut, you have bigger problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socom688 217 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) i've actually seen the letter posted that says you can do it if you intend to immediately solder/weld a brake on for 18" total, I would always suggest you remove the barrel just to stay safe, but if the ATF kicks down your door at the exact time you have the barrel cut, you have bigger problems. Very true. I am in no way advocating cutting the barrel below 18'' and attaching the flash hider yourself, but if you did, you would most likely get away with it, even if it were unlawful, unless you are growing 20 pot plants, or have a meth lab out back and are being watched. Just be careful, and lawful Edited June 2, 2012 by socom688 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
obiwanbonjovi 337 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 The only methods the atf accepts are: Blind pinning with the head welded over. steel seam welding(at least half the circumference) 3 equidistant steel tack welds. 1100 degree silver solder. and in at least one case with a major manufacturer, 2 1/4" plug welds 180 degrees apart.(have not seen another letter approving this method) it is perfectly legal to do it yourself, provided you immediately attach the device per atf approved methods. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 I too would like a copy of the letter from the ATF that says it is OK to chop the barrel down under 18 inches while it is still in the receiver as long as you immediately permanently attach a muzzle device to bring it back to legal length. That would be something good to have a copy of just in case. And for what it is worth unless your gun runs perfect on Winchester bulk pack i would think long and hard about chopping the barrel down significantly and permanently attaching a muzzle brake. once that brake is on there it will be very difficult to make any changes to the gas holes if it doesn't run good. Good luck on what ever you do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
obiwanbonjovi 337 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Awesome, thanks. I'm framing this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 thanks for posting that letter, hopefully that will cut out all of the bullshit that these threads tend to generate 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 thank you very much. i am printing it out as i type. now where is my hack saw? just kidding or am i? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I think the barrel overall length must be 18" long for a shotgun; 16" long for a rifle. The friendly all knowing BATFE has exact requirements for attachment of barrel extensions. On a RIFLE, the extended barrel must total 16" and must have two (2) holes drilled 180 degrees apart thru the extension and into the barrel; then two steel dowells pressed into the holes, the ends ground off flush and then the whole thing either welded or high temp silver soddered. Plays hell with bullet accuracy. Once done, the dowels are blind as they can't be removed. I belive the process for shotguns is slightly different as the barrel usually isn't thick enough for the rifle barrel procedure. Maybe just high temp silver sodder? Perhaps others will clarify. It might be best to have a shotgun barrel 18.1" long, measured from bolt face to the end of the barrel. You don't want the extension/flash hider or choke coming off. The Batfe considers it then a short barrel shotgun, illegal without a tax stamp. HB of CJ (old coot) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoshAston 39 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I think the barrel overall length must be 18" long for a shotgun; 16" long for a rifle. Correct. The friendly all knowing BATFE has exact requirements for attachment of barrel extensions. Posted above, there are several legal methods. On a RIFLE, the extended barrel must total 16" and must have two (2) holes drilled 180 degrees apart thru the extension and into the barrel; Only one is needed for blind pinning, the pin doesn't need to go that far into the barrel, just enough to keep the muzzle device from being removable. then two steel dowells pressed into the holes, the ends ground off flush and then the whole thing either welded or high temp silver soddered. Silver solder on the pins is not ATF approved, only welding. 1100 degree silver solder can be applied to the threads, then the muzzle device installed, then heat the entire thing to 1100 degrees. Plays hell with bullet accuracy. No it doesn't. Once done, the dowels are blind as they can't be removed. I belive the process for shotguns is slightly different as the barrel usually isn't thick enough for the rifle barrel procedure. Pins can be used, like I said, they don't have to go that deep into the barrel. Maybe just high temp silver solder? Perhaps others will clarify. This would work as well. It might be best to have a shotgun barrel 18.1" long, measured from bolt face to the end of the barrel. You don't want the extension/flash hider or choke coming off. The Batfe considers it then a short barrel shotgun, illegal without a tax stamp. Attach the muzzle device using one of the above methods and it won't just come off. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bizarro 9 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Here is something I found on another site, and sounds to be good advice. "Always cut a shotgun or rifle barrel at least one quarter to one half inch longer than the legal minimum. ATF uses a "Precision" metal bar to measure barrel length. It is dropped down the questioned barrel to rest against the closed bolt. If so much as a millimeter of that bar extends from the muzzle you're facing an immediate felony charge. Play it safe.: 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 This shows that the anti-gunners are winning, when there are pussies that need a letter to tell them something that they already know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 This shows that the anti-gunners are winning, when there are pussies that need a letter to tell them something that they already know. who is a pussy for getting a letter clarifying a legal gray area? call me a pussy all you want but i'd rather get a letter from the atf than spend a few years in jail 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 It's called CYA; and it helps people sleep better at night lol. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 You already have your letter. It's called the U.S. Constitution Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) It's funny because normally ATF letters and findings normally take liberties in terms of the statutes and make things that reasonable gun owners would believe to be legal and ATF says they are illegal. In this case the ATF is saying something is legal that the statutes very clearly make illegal.And FYI, the ATF letters and even their rulings do not have the force of law. The statutes do, and then the court with jurisdiction. Sure, unless LEO kicks down your door between the time of cutting the barrel and having the extension permanently attached - you'll never see a lick of trouble about it. But the statutes make it illegal to posses a rifle with a barrel less than 16" or a shotgun with a barrel of less than 18" without the proper paperwork. Plain English statutes. Regardless of what the ATF says. Once you cut that barrel, you're in violation of that statute until the extension is attached. YMMV. So, it's no wonder folks question the issue...and IMO they are smart to do so. Not bullshit at all. Edited June 3, 2012 by ec4321 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 You already have your letter. It's called the U.S. Constitution tell that to a judge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 You already have your letter. It's called the U.S. Constitution tell that to a judge Judge already well aware of the Constitution Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 This shows that the anti-gunners are winning, when there are pussies that need a letter to tell them something that they already know. You already have your letter. It's called the U.S. Constitution In case you haven't noticed there have already been many changes in gun control that are unconstitutional that have and will continue to slim down gun owners rights. even though they go directly against the constitution they are still enforced. it says nothing in the constitution about what weapons are legal and what aren't like legal barrel lengths, fully automatic weapons, and all of the 922 r compliance BS. it sickens me to see some people that do not notice these things. if you are not aware that your freedoms are being slowly taken away then you might want to take a moment and realize that the "pussies" may be the ones that are fighting for your freedoms. when have you questioned authority to uphold your rights as a citizen? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lws43 1 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Id rather be a pussy and read the letter then someones pussy in the can! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Here is my very good post on the subject from a previous discussion: http://forum.saiga-1...ke/#entry684230 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.