moshaholic2 1 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 here's my conversion that Mario at POHF did for me. Full conversion, pistolgrip plate, S12 trigger guard, Ak100 series folder w/ S12 recoil pad AND shortened the barrel to the propper 430mm length (you probably can guess the problem by now) here she is: Tested it today shooting these: 2 3/4" 1400fps round ball Recoil was pretty mild and manageable. BUT, the gun failed to cycle semi-auto (it cycled as it should only one time out of 50 rds) Otherwise it would half eject/crunch the spent round, requiring me to hand cycle the shotgun. So............ does this mean I have to: A)open up a gas port? (not sure how many are under the gas block or size) B)use I higher power load? (like 1550 3" or something???) I would prefer to continue shooting 2 3/4" shells for the $$$ aspect and availability. Not terribly concerned w/ it being able to shoot cheap walmart bulk birdshot. It's a slug and buckshot gun. what say you mighty Saiga 12 masters? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
schultze13 354 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Try the hi power loads first. If it cycles then you know it is the gas ports The problem then is if you open it up to run the low power loads when you run the hi power loads it will be over gassed and cause excess wear on your gun. If you gun runs fine on hi power then that is all i would run thru it that is the down side to that style gasblock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
moshaholic2 1 Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Thanks for the quick reply. Thats what I plan on trying first. But, isn't 1400fps getting up there for a 2 3/4" load anyway? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
red_cedar 28 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 How much coin did it cost you to have him do the work? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
schultze13 354 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Yeah 1400 is up there. I didn't even read between the pics and missed that it should of been fine with that. I would thke the gastube off and make sure there is nothing blocking the ports and try it again this time try some buckshot maybe the it is that ammo I personally have never had any problem using remington 15 pellet 00 buck in any of my saigas. Before drilling I would order a low power recoil spring as my first attempt to fix it. Mario does great work and I have seen alot of nice guns come from him so I would try the recoil spring and different ammo first and if that does not help I would contact him and talk to him, for the money I am sure you spent it should be 100%. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
moshaholic2 1 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 How much coin did it cost you to have him do the work? w/ parts be prepared to double the original purchase price of the shotgun. I'll put a bunch more rounds through it and see if it "breaks in" But, i did order the different spring from Carolina Shooters Supply ... hell it's only $6 and could make this thing run like a champ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 It it were me, I would stay away from low powered recoil springs. Better to fix the root of the problem than to add bandaids. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) I've always said Mario does some beautiful work, but that doesn't mean he can make a Saiga 12 run What sapper said.... ETA: can you post a few close pics of the folder retrofit? Edited October 3, 2012 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
towerofpower93 22 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I've yet to be able to take my 030 out for a range session, but has anybody with one been able to get it running with the Wally World Federal bulk pack we all know and love? Based on what Mario said, these 030s are the same ones Brain at Red Dragun was going to bring in and he and Mario both said they could run the bulk pack birdshot. Hopefully lelandEOD chimes in as he's worked on a few of these shotguns and can possibly shed some light on what he had to do in order to get them running on the cheap stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Try to touch base with Ray (Saigatechusa) he has good knowledge on the gas system of the izh-433 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbull 3 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 For whats it's worth, I am just at the end of my newly tricked out conversion that would FTE every other round journey!! There is Hope!! Thru this Forum I have lerned alot! 1st I would suggest you check your gas ports..... Alot of theses weapons are not drilled to the correct size from the factory. Make sure they are clean and check how many you can see (on mine I could only see one clear port and turned out to be a Four port gun!!!)?? If the ports are ubstructed by the gas tube then you need to enlarge the hole on the tube to Uncover all of the ports AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE THE CORRECT SIZE!! If you can get up another 200 bucks you should really look at Paully Stealin's Glass Bolt!!!! He is on this forum as a Business member and is a master of Saiga! I just got my bolt and carrier back from him and mine runs anything from slug to bird shot like a raped aped!!!!! Also I can't tell from the pics. but, you might look into an adjustable gas block if you don't have one alredy? There is a great thread called "My Saiga from strat to finish" on this site it explains alot of this in more detail with pics. Stick with it! It will all be worth it soon!!! Good luck!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Thanks for the quick reply. Thats what I plan on trying first. But, isn't 1400fps getting up there for a 2 3/4" load anyway? Not really actually, in this case. Those roundballs are shooting a lighter projectile. I forget what a .650 roundball weighs, but is well short of an ounce. I have a case of the same thing by another company and they will not run 100% on setting #1, but run fine on #2. They seem to be right on the line between settings. If you had an ounce or more of ejecta, 1400 FPS is a setting #1 load and should run your gun fine. I don't owna gun with that gas block, but I believe the advice given about your gun being tuned only for powerful ammo is appropriate. If you increase gas just to the point where those particular slugs run, you should be OK for still running the heaviest of loads. You should not try to make your gun run anything lighter. That fancy looking gas block actually has less functionality than the more common style. It's the price you chose to pay for looks. By the way you did succeed on the looks, that is a fine looking firearm. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randyf 35 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 This http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/74964-saiga-12k-version-030-1-project/page__p__736854__hl__+trigger%20+guard#entry736854 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lelandeod 179 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I haven't tried that particular Centurian ammo in any of the 030's I've built but some low recoil stuff (even slugs and buck) will not cycle well. With the barrel shortened to 430mm, you are going to have to compromise somewhere. I choose to run a reduced power spring because it is cheap, effective and 100% reversible. Opening up the gas ports is like getting the first girl you ever had sex with pregnant... you better hope you're happy with your decision because there ain't no going back. If you are real uncomfortable, put some silly putty on the rear trunnion to test the low power spring to make sure it's not hammering the crap out of the bolt carrier/trunnion with the ammo you want to use. You need to take some better pics of that bad boy too! Mario does really good work! I've yet to be able to take my 030 out for a range session, but has anybody with one been able to get it running with the Wally World Federal bulk pack we all know and love? Based on what Mario said, these 030s are the same ones Brain at Red Dragun was going to bring in and he and Mario both said they could run the bulk pack birdshot. Hopefully lelandEOD chimes in as he's worked on a few of these shotguns and can possibly shed some light on what he had to do in order to get them running on the cheap stuff. Yes, my 030's will cycle the Federal Value Pack stuff with the reduced power spring. They will run the bird shot with the factory spring before you cut down the barrel. Once you shorten to 430mm, they need the slightly softer spring to cycle 100%. I really need to get out and take some cool 030 video. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
moshaholic2 1 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) awesome info! thank you for the insight and the lower recoil front sping is already in the mail and on the way! the thing will be a hoot. I'm a little more of a collector than shooter, but I want it to run correctly when i do decide to go tear some stuff up Edited October 3, 2012 by moshaholic2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 It really amazes me the lack of experience on these 030s given how long they've been available now. I had one of the first ones back in Feb/March and put many rounds thru it without a single hitch. BUT, that's at standard import barrel length. What I do know is that although I never experienced a failure with the cheap wally birdshot it seemed to run "on the edge" with these rounds. So it doesn't surprise me the gun isn't 100% reliable when you chop the barrel down and reduce gas pressure. BTW, beautiful shotgun OP. Mario does fantasic work. And he's a good guy too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
towerofpower93 22 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I haven't tried that particular Centurian ammo in any of the 030's I've built but some low recoil stuff (even slugs and buck) will not cycle well. With the barrel shortened to 430mm, you are going to have to compromise somewhere. I choose to run a reduced power spring because it is cheap, effective and 100% reversible. Opening up the gas ports is like getting the first girl you ever had sex with pregnant... you better hope you're happy with your decision because there ain't no going back. If you are real uncomfortable, put some silly putty on the rear trunnion to test the low power spring to make sure it's not hammering the crap out of the bolt carrier/trunnion with the ammo you want to use. You need to take some better pics of that bad boy too! Mario does really good work! I've yet to be able to take my 030 out for a range session, but has anybody with one been able to get it running with the Wally World Federal bulk pack we all know and love? Based on what Mario said, these 030s are the same ones Brain at Red Dragun was going to bring in and he and Mario both said they could run the bulk pack birdshot. Hopefully lelandEOD chimes in as he's worked on a few of these shotguns and can possibly shed some light on what he had to do in order to get them running on the cheap stuff. Yes, my 030's will cycle the Federal Value Pack stuff with the reduced power spring. They will run the bird shot with the factory spring before you cut down the barrel. Once you shorten to 430mm, they need the slightly softer spring to cycle 100%. I really need to get out and take some cool 030 video. Thanks for the info. I have a reduced recoil spring already so I'll be sure to take it along on the initial range trips for the Federal birdshot. Eric Quote Link to post Share on other sites
moshaholic2 1 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Ok, so day two range report...... and it's good!!!!! It ran 100% today (minus a mag failure which I'll talk about later). Here is the ammo I tried. started w/ the 3" birdshot - no problem Winchester 2 3/4" buck - no problem Olin 2 3/4" "military" buck - no problem Dupleks Dupo 28 2 3/4" expanding slugs - no problem Nobel Sport 2 3/4" buckshot - no problem and finally back to the Centurion 2 3/4" "ball" - no problem maybe it's "broken in" now? I started w/ what i thought was the strongest ammo and worked my way down to the one that didn't work last time. Now mag failure (brand new out of the envelope and wrap from UPS today) - Follower was hanging up. 2-3 rounds loaded, it worked, fully loaded the follower was getting stuck. Not exactly sure how to free up the movement to get that thing working. Once I get the lower recoil spring, i'll try the wally world bulk bird shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lelandeod 179 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hmmm... I haven't seen a Russian 8'er that malfunctioned. The QC on the mags seems to be eons above some of the other things Izhmash puts out. Try to identify the spot where the follower is hanging up on the interior wall and use some emory cloth to remove a bit of material. I could get my 030 to cycle the cheap Federal value pack stuff with the factory spring only if I put the butt stock up against something more solid than my shoulder. If I put it on a pole, it would cycle. Guess I need to hit the gym. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HART1 92 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) I've yet to be able to take my 030 out for a range session, but has anybody with one been able to get it running with the Wally World Federal bulk pack we all know and love? Based on what Mario said, these 030s are the same ones Brain at Red Dragun was going to bring in and he and Mario both said they could run the bulk pack birdshot. Hopefully lelandEOD chimes in as he's worked on a few of these shotguns and can possibly shed some light on what he had to do in order to get them running on the cheap stuff. Speaking of Brian. Has anyone received a refund from him? I was number 80? and I'm still waiting. Edited March 21, 2013 by ARMOR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mpoppel41 24 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I got my refund can't remember when I was 24 or 25, but that's what I bought my vepr-12 with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Ive received a refund for one 030, still waiting for the other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bcrider 68 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I've been in contact with Brian basically just trading voicemails. I think he's going to make it all good. Just might take a few years. At least some are actually seeing refunds. That's a good sign. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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