cutting the tang

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

Remember this is all just personnel preference there really is no right or wrong answer to this sort of question.

 

+1

This is one reason I wanted clarification from Maxwelhse. He was so dogmatic I thought he could have been joking.

 

Nope, just flat out ignorant to the ways of fixed stock AKs, as I was rightly accused of. I just couldn't imagine a situation where that tang belonged on a folder. Bonesteel stated his case and now I understand the debate.

 

I am still, despite their short comings, not interested in non-folding stock AKs*. Maybe some day I'll change my tune.

 

*keeping one a fixed stock that is...

Edited March 12, 2013 by Maxwelhse

[lbsrdi 1,078]

I don't have a choice, my wife cut my tang off while I was sleeping.

[Sdustin 578]

Haha. I know one thing right now I'm think about outing the ace folder I've got on my saiga .308 and there's no way I'll use the non cut tang version, so I kind of agree with you max, that being said the reason I'd cut the tang is the look of the big black "box" to mount behind the tang looks like ass so the reason I'd cut the tang is looks. And I'm sorry I didn't really think about the ak74s stock as the same as the ak100 which I know it is. Even so there's no way in HELL is spend 400+ on a stock unless it was going on a special weapon SBR or such.

 

I mean for that kind of money I'd spend a grand and get an arsenal factory folder.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Haha. I know one thing right now I'm think about outing the ace folder I've got on my saiga .308 and there's no way I'll use the non cut tang version, so I kind of agree with you max, that being said the reason I'd cut the tang is the look of the big black "box" to mount behind the tang looks like ass so the reason I'd cut the tang is looks. And I'm sorry I didn't really think about the ak74s stock as the same as the ak100 which I know it is. Even so there's no way in HELL is spend 400+ on a stock unless it was going on a special weapon SBR or such.

 

I mean for that kind of money I'd spend a grand and get an arsenal factory folder.

Those 100 stocks are addictive....

 

 

You are probably better off not trying one

[Goose 95]

I had an ACE folder on my S12 back in the day. But after a while of carting it back and forth to work in the truck, I realized that the length saved isn't much on an ak with a 19" bbl. Plus the SOCOM stock was bumping the side rail and after a while the folder got a bit of play in it. I ended up cutting out the entire trunnion and side mount for the SGM internal adapter and I love it. The only time I'd use a folder now is on a SBS, and it would have to be something with a slim profile, the SOCOM was a bit bulky when folded. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that the 100 looks kinda slim...

 

Evl, can you post a picture of your stock folded, looking down from the top?

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

It just hit me. They are....

 

 

.... and most

 

 

So, my conclusion is....

 

 

Edited March 13, 2013 by evlblkwpnz

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

Haha. I know one thing right now I'm think about outing the ace folder I've got on my saiga .308 and there's no way I'll use the non cut tang version, so I kind of agree with you max, that being said the reason I'd cut the tang is the look of the big black "box" to mount behind the tang looks like ass so the reason I'd cut the tang is looks. And I'm sorry I didn't really think about the ak74s stock as the same as the ak100 which I know it is. Even so there's no way in HELL is spend 400+ on a stock unless it was going on a special weapon SBR or such.

 

I mean for that kind of money I'd spend a grand and get an arsenal factory folder.

 

I agree with the "looks" debate as well, but that's a personal thing.

 

I am very seriously contemplating buying a Bonesteel and comparing it to my current setup just to check it out in a hands on way.

[Goose 95]

Gratsi Evl

 

PS-someone just posted a picture of a krinkish S12 with a 100 folder, thought you'd be interested in takin a peek

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

This one?

 

 

 

[Goose 95]

No this one

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/13312-picture-post-lets-see-your-saiga-12/page-37?

 

post #1109

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Looks well done from here and I like the way it looks with the mag well, but I still like Saigatech's version better. He pioneered the whole Krink 12 concept. ST's is shorter too. That one looks to be around 10". Anyone know of any video on this one?

Edited March 14, 2013 by evlblkwpnz

[OldCopLarry 3]

Wow... lots of interest here, and lots of knowledge! Glad I joined up. OK, so lets assume I go with the bonesteel. As a right hander, do I want it to fold left, so I can I can still access the trigger? And which of the two models are longer?

[HighPlainsDrifter 466]

OK, so lets assume I go with the bonesteel. As a right hander, do I want it to fold left, so I can I can still access the trigger? And which of the two models are longer?

 

Do you want it to fold left? Not necessarily. Read this thread. What I've found is it's all subjective. I personally like both of my right side folders. It keeps the folding action away from my body. And yes you can still access the trigger...

[swimbikerun247 1]

If anybody comes across an AK100 folder that's available, let me know. I'm interested.

[OldCopLarry 3]

In the video, it shows the safety releasing when the stock is flipped open. ??? OK, how is that connected?

[HighPlainsDrifter 466]

In the video, it shows the safety releasing when the stock is flipped open. ??? OK, how is that connected?

 

It's not connected. The safety on the Vepr-12 has a thumb extension. I believe he's flipping the safety with his thumb and opening the folder with the back of his hand in one simple motion.

[obiwanbonjovi 337]

In the video, it shows the safety releasing when the stock is flipped open. ??? OK, how is that connected?

they are not connected, the video is a demonstration of how with the awesome vepr extended safety you can easily manipulate safety in one motion while unfolding stock.

[OldCopLarry 3]

Got it... thanks, I just ordered the Bonesteel, and am looking forward to posting pictures of my new toy once I get all the bells and whistles installed.

Edited April 23, 2013 by OldCopLarry

[OldCopLarry 3]

Here's my new S12:

 

I plan on lots of new additions. Just ordered a bondesteel folder, and I have bids in on some drums. Quad rail and shroud up next. I'll post pictures of it as it changes.

 

I have a buddy who has more pictures of his guns and motorcycle than of his wife and kids... guess it goes with the territory.

[coronet 131]

One of my S-12's has a Bulgarian wire folder. One has a Romanian wire folder, and the last I cut off the tang and have a bolt on DHS folder with hinge. 1) The Romainian folder bolted right in. It is stout. I use a grenade launcher pad on it. It cut recoil - both felt and percieved by at least 50% over the factory monte carlo stock. No bruising. Perfect length. Comfortable. NO bruising. Kicks about as much as my AR-15. Yeah, slugs, also. Can use any trigger guard that you want. EASY to operate thumb lever. EASY open, easy close. FANTASTIC stock LOP is most excellent. Minimal moving parts - nothing to go wrong. I use a Houge AR pistol grip on a JT Engineering trigger guard. Had to cut a slot for the bolt hold open in the trigger guard. RETAINS THE TANG. 2) Bulgarian was a bit trickier to mount. HAD to use a billet trigger guard, high dollar, from CSS, due to the fact that the spring mechanism is right over where the mounting bolt needs to be for a trigger guard. And due to the fact that I wanted a Houge AR pistol grip. I got it all to fit. Had to dremel a vee notch for trigger guard bolt. Use a grenade pad on it also. LOP is perfect for me. Haven't shot it yet. EASY to operate thumb lever. Few moving parts. Once it is bolted in, it is STOUT. CSS trigger guard is a bolt in with safety stop included, and no need to modify to work with bolt hold open. RETAINS THE TANG. 3) DHS with CSS block and limbsaver pad of 1", and stormwerks hinge. Lots of stupid connections where something could fail, ie, bolts work loose, connections slide, etc. Stormwerks hinge is stout, but is a Mother fucking piece of shit to open and close. You will curse the day you ever buy one. Every time you have to slam the SOB to open or close, you wonder if you are going to break one of the tiny machine screws that holds everything together. After all, everything is SOFT aluminum. Or make everything slide out of place. Overall length is too much for me. And I cut the tang to bolt this shit on. I shit you not, the wire folders are more than enough. They are easy to install. They are heavy duty. They reduce recoil. They work with a thumb actuated lever - easy to open and close. They are much cheaper. You don't have to cut the tang. Do what you want. YMMV. Sometimes they factory had the right idea, and you don't need to try and build something "better" that costs more and has more moving parts to break. If nothing else, if you are so worried about it, build a folder out of stronger wire for the S-12. The standard AK wire folder is more than enough, though. And is stronger - to me - than the aftermarket folders. Just my humble opinion. There are even cheek rest options out there for the wire folders. Consists of another piece of wire and a simple way to bolt it on. Paracord, or foam to finish it up.

Edited April 24, 2013 by coronet

[netpackrat 566]

Still waiting for somebody to show me where one of those 10-32 machine screws has broken in use with a modular stock setup. If you ever fly on any airplane, you'd probably be shocked at how much of it is held together by 10-32 screws.

[netpackrat 566]

Still waiting for somebody to show me where one of those 10-32 machine screws has broken in use with a modular stock setup.

 

Anyone? Bueller?

[305diver 2]

On a hog hunt, I have had them work lose and fall out of an s12 while stalking pigs in the brush, standing there with two halves of your gun isn't exactly ideal, luckly had the trusty pump in the buggy to fall back on. Likely would have never happend at the range, YMMV

[netpackrat 566]

But they didn't break? Yeah, just about any screws on a gun should be put together with Loctite. The Bonesteel stock I installed, I used Loctite on that also.

[ResponsiveResolve 7]

I had a few questions on this stock.......AK-BFS @Kvar = http://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-BFS.html

 

1.) Looks like you don't have to cut the Tang...correct?

 

2.) How does this compare to the AK-100 stock? (Still look like a$$?) (Price wise $200 vs $400?)

 

3.) Could the AK-BFS be modified to an AK-100? (looks like a poly adapter?)

[obiwanbonjovi 337]

I had a few questions on this stock.......AK-BFS @Kvar = http://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-BFS.html

 

1.) Looks like you don't have to cut the Tang...correct?

 

2.) How does this compare to the AK-100 stock? (Still look like a$$?) (Price wise $200 vs $400?)

 

3.) Could the AK-BFS be modified to an AK-100? (looks like a poly adapter?)

 

you do not have to cut the tang with this.

 

these look like a$$ compared to the ak-100 stock, the adapter block is long and bulky, and because of the long adapter they have a ridiculously long LOP

 

no these will not accept the poly folder, the latch is moved from the rear of the stock, to near the front, the triangle folder has a tab welded on for the latch, the poly one is solid plastic where the latch would need to be.

[obiwanbonjovi 337]

But they didn't break? Yeah, just about any screws on a gun should be put together with Loctite. The Bonesteel stock I installed, I used Loctite on that also.

 

They likely wont ever break unless one of them comes loose,,one of them is defective, or one of them is overtorqued.

 

The only exception to that would be if the stock were to suffer a hard blow directly up or down to the mechanism which could shear the bolts, the bolts are incredibly strong under tension, but not so much under shear.

 

However, any way you look at it you have added 4 more points of possible failure. If one bolt fails, whether it is due to installation error, defective bolt, or just the right impact, the entire unit will fail.

[vulcan16 971]

Still waiting for somebody to show me where one of those 10-32 machine screws has broken in use with a modular stock setup. If you ever fly on any airplane, you'd probably be shocked at how much of it is held together by 10-32 screws.

Frick.....I worked on them for many years......and still amazed at the amount of small hardware that holds them together.

Let's not even talk about "zero" torque on some landing gear and other major components .

[netpackrat 566]

Still waiting for somebody to show me where one of those 10-32 machine screws has broken in use with a modular stock setup. If you ever fly on any airplane, you'd probably be shocked at how much of it is held together by 10-32 screws.

Frick.....I worked on them for many years......and still amazed at the amount of small hardware that holds them together.

Let's not even talk about "zero" torque on some landing gear and other major components .

 

I came across an instruction in the B737NG AMM the other day, that said "tighten to 56 +/- 18 inch pounds using your fingers." I'm still trying to figure out how the fuck I am supposed to do that. And the supplied spanner wrench does not adapt to any torque wrench.

[netpackrat 566]

However, any way you look at it you have added 4 more points of possible failure. If one bolt fails, whether it is due to installation error, defective bolt, or just the right impact, the entire unit will fail.

 

 

 

So what? Going from a fixed stock to ANY folder (even yours) adds more possible points of failure, as does installing an extendable stock. It's a necessary part of adding a stock with more capability and convenience. Installation error is easily prevented by just installing it right. The odds of getting a defective bolt are vanishingly small, especially if you don't buy crap hardware, and take a few seconds to look at it before you throw it together. Just the "right impact" can break anything. One nice feature of the modular hinges on my guns, is if I do manage to somehow break the hinge, I can remove the hinge and revert to a fixed stock in the field. With the Bonesteel unit, not so much. That's not to say that either is likely to break, but things happen, and removal is at least an option with the modular units. Your unit may be structurally a little stronger, but either of them can be waylaid by a broken spring (or similar) and you can't really predict or totally discount the possibility of that sort of thing.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Netpackrat