General feeling out there

[XD45 7,124]

We are in the calm before the storm.

 

I have been within 20 feet of lightning strikes 3 times in my life. Each time the hair on my arms stood up and warned me it was about to happen.

 

The hair is standing up on my arms right now.

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

Yea I know it is early, woke up a 2 AM, all this shit is starting to wear on me a good bit,

Worried, HELL YEA I AM.

Our great country is being taken from us a bit at a time, more states passing anit 2nd laws every day.

The more I read the more I worry(not from here or my state forum) ya know the e-mails I get.

I cant stop reading, I would fall behind on what is being taken, so I just stay up on what is going on.

We the People lost a lot of the 2nd years ago, The Founding Fathers put the 2nd in so we could keep this country free, it was ment to let us have all the firearms we want, the very same as any government has.

How do we fight a full auto with a semi auto?

How do we fight a tank?

How de we fight a plane with missles?

Answer, we dont, we loose.

I too am weary of thinking I may have to take up arms in my own GD country because of a minority of anti -americans in power. The latter is what pisses me off the most to no end, that they are even in office.

I disagree very much so about we lose though. Reexamine Vietnam and Afghanistan (Russian involvement). Guerilla warfare is exceptionally difficult for the aggressor, especially urban conflict, regardless of the technology which many times is a hindrance and like victor charlie, we look just like the rest of the population.

[MultiSlacking 102]

How do we fight a full auto with a semi auto?

How do we fight a tank?

How de we fight a plane with missles?

Answer, we dont, we loose.

 

I've asked myself those same questions. And there are answers to those questions. But at the core of those questions, is "what can one man do?" A lot!

 

For example: Simo Hayha (story below loosely copied and pasted and edited slightly for brevity).

____________________________________________________________________________

Simo Hayha had a fairly ordinary life in Finland. He served his one mandatory year in the military, and then became a farmer. But when the Soviet Union invaded his homeland in 1939, he decided he wanted to help his country.

Since the majority of fighting took place in the forest, he figured the best way to stop the invasion was to grab his trusty rifle, a couple of cans of food and hide in a tree all day shooting Russians. In six feet of snow. And 20-40 degrees below zero.

 

Of course when the Russians heard that dozens of their men were going down and that it was all one guy with a rifle, they got scared. He became known as "The White Death" because of his white camouflage outfit, and they actually mounted whole missions just to kill this one man.

 

They started by sending out a task force to find Hayha and take him out. He killed them all.

Then they tried getting together a team of counter-snipers (which are basically snipers that kill snipers) and sent them in to eliminate Hayha. He killed all of them, too.

 

Over the course of 100 days, Hayha killed 542 enemies with his rifle. He took out another 150 or so with his SMG, sending his credited kill-count up to 705.

Since everyone they had was either too dead or too scared to go anywhere near him, the Russians just carpet-bombed everywhere they thought he might be. Supposedly, they had the location right, and he actually got hit by a cloud of shrapnel that tore his coat up, but didn't actually hurt him, because he *is* the White Death.

Finally on March 6th, 1940, some lucky guy shot Hayha in the head. When some other soldiers found him and brought him back to base, they reported he "had half his head missing." The White Death had finally been stopped... ...for about a week. In spite of having come down with a nasty case of shot-in-the-face syndrome, he was still very much alive, and regained consciousness on March 13, the very day the war ended.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

[devildogdakota 804]

"They are in front of us, behind us, and we are flanked on both sides by an enemy that outnumbers us 29:1. They can't get away from us now!"

Chesty Puller, USMC.

 

RED333, on 05 Apr 2013 - 04:10, said:

How do we fight a full auto with a semi auto?

How do we fight a tank?

How de we fight a plane with missles?

Answer, we dont, we loose.

 

The Russians got their asses handed to them after 10 years of fighting skinny guys wearing flip flop sandals and bedsheets living in caves, if I remember right. The equiptment and training the Russians had at that time was'nt something to play with, specifically if you were a century behind them in modern technology.

I'm well aware of the reality factor of going up against a formidable, larger and stronger entity, but I will be damned if I'll accept any form of defeat in my mind without giving it a good fight first. If it's a 1% chance in hell of a victory, ( though very, very slim,)I see it as a chance to win opposed to accepting to give up and lose.

 

quote..."I would rather die standing on my feet than live on my knees".

[XD45 7,124]

How do we fight a full auto with a semi auto?

How do we fight a tank?

How de we fight a plane with missles?

Answer, we dont, we loose.

 

The answer is: Every one of those weapons is manned by an American.

 

This isn't Iraq. The military is still made up of volunteers. It's still made up of our sons and our daughters. Alot of them won't follow orders to turn these weapons on the people.

 

Do you think King Hussein would NOT use the military against the people if he thought they would follow his orders? Do you think he'd even consider leaving the white house if he had the ability to use the military to keep him there?

 

I would not have followed any order to turn my weapon on Americans. And I would have stopped any who did follow that order.

 

But I would never have been forced to make that choice. My commanders would never have even given that order, no matter what the dictator in the white house said. Because right and wrong still matter in the US military.

 

As far as the dictator's private army (DHS), they will have many defectors also if they are ordered to attack the public.

 

I'll say it again. This is still America. As bad as it has gotten. As ignorant and apathetic and dependent as the public has become. There is still a core of freedom.

 

But it will get bad. It will be desperate. It won't be because B2s are carpet bombing Dallas. It will be because the economy collapses. Money will be useless and food and fuel and everything we take for granted will just disappear.

 

Stock up on everything you can get your hands on. You don't need overpriced "survival" food. Just buy canned goods. Make sure you get things with high calories, fat, and protein. Get a water filtration system. Get spare propane bottles. Just imagine you're going on a 6 month camping trip and buy everything you need now.

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

Also paramount, your going to lose real bad if you take on a tank with a rifle or a aircraft fired missile. You do not engage these systems that way unless you have like hardware. So keep in mind the methodology used and intellect will overcome brashness. Armored columns have been completely rendered useless by no more that proper ambush planning and logistics.

[MultiSlacking 102]

Knowledge and wisdom are two of the best weapons in your arsenal. And Google is your friend.

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/2-16071.aspx#startofcomments

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-tank-traps.htm

[Voltia 375]

I would think most military people would follow orders. From what I understand, individuality and independent thinking are not encouraged.

[XD45 7,124]

I would think most military people would follow orders. From what I understand, individuality and independent thinking are not encouraged.

 

Wrong.

 

If you haven't served then you clearly don't know anything but what the media has told you.

 

This board is full of veterans and many active duty. Not ONE of us would follow that order.

 

Brothers? What say you?

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

I would think most military people would follow orders. From what I understand, individuality and independent thinking are not encouraged.

 

Most military people would follow ethical orders, soldiers are not robots and are not going to blindly follow along with an oppressive government's activities against it's own peoples for two basic reasons; 1. The people in the military are of the population, there is no seperation. They would see that an attack on the population is an attack on themselves and, 2. even if that were to fail the leaders are not stupid, they would see through the lies and recognize the illegitamacy of the orders and understand that if they were to follow through and commit the crimes against the American people that there would indeed be a reckoning coming, either quickly or through the court system...

 

Also while individuality may be needing to be suppressed, the current culture of PC inclusiveness (gays in, women in combat etc.) has basically eroded much of the past strict discipline that the mililary needs. And if you don't think the military does not encourage independant thinking, well brother all I can say is that you have never been in a firefight -- independant thinking is the only thing that keeps your head on your shoulders...

Edited April 5, 2013 by Odd Man Out

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

How do we fight a full auto with a semi auto?

How do we fight a tank?

How de we fight a plane with missles?

Answer, we dont, we loose.

 

See my post above -- we are not fighting weapons, we would fight their operators who imo are just like us... so if the full auto never fired and the tank remained in the tank park and the plane on the runway, we do not lose.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Odd Man Out

[devildogdakota 804]

 

Wrong.

 

If you haven't served then you clearly don't know anything but what the media has told you.

 

This board is full of veterans and many active duty. Not ONE of us would follow that order.

 

Brothers? What say you?

I second the notion.

Edited April 5, 2013 by fffpatriot

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I am sorry but I cannot think of one example of this type of order being refused on the field.

Right off hand the incidents I can think of would be the draft Riots in New York during the War of Northern Aggression, Kent State, Waco (yes there were troops there, those tanks did not drive themselves), and perhaps more I am not aware.

 

Perhaps not all would follow the order but for those that refuse they may as well understand what happens next, possible execution on the spot so it gets rather dicey doesn't it. Also consider what may be the case if the troops are under fire from the civilians, this may not be the first time a clash occurred in some scenarios.

 

In short saying yes or no means little outside of context.

[coronet 131]

I would think most military people would follow orders. From what I understand, individuality and independent thinking are not encouraged.

 

Wrong.

 

If you haven't served then you clearly don't know anything but what the media has told you.

 

This board is full of veterans and many active duty. Not ONE of us would follow that order.

 

Brothers? What say you?

I second the notion.

One word = Katrina.

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

anyone here think that this administration or ones in the future might use or recruit foreign soldiers. wouldn't even have to go out of the boarders to do so.

Edited April 5, 2013 by SHOTGUN MESIAH

[XD45 7,124]

I am sorry but I cannot think of one example of this type of order being refused on the field.

Right off hand the incidents I can think of would be the draft Riots in New York during the War of Northern Aggression, Kent State, Waco (yes there were troops there, those tanks did not drive themselves), and perhaps more I am not aware.

 

Perhaps not all would follow the order but for those that refuse they may as well understand what happens next, possible execution on the spot so it gets rather dicey doesn't it. Also consider what may be the case if the troops are under fire from the civilians, this may not be the first time a clash occurred in some scenarios.

 

In short saying yes or no means little outside of context.

 

No means no. But you know why our troops won't have to make that choice?

 

Because there are still enough honorable men and women in uniform and they know it.

 

 

I would think most military people would follow orders. From what I understand, individuality and independent thinking are not encouraged.

 

Wrong.

 

If you haven't served then you clearly don't know anything but what the media has told you.

 

This board is full of veterans and many active duty. Not ONE of us would follow that order.

 

Brothers? What say you?

I second the notion.

One word = Katrina.

One word = Pointless

 

If you have a point you failed to make it. Were troops firing on the people of New Orleans? I don't seem to recall that.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Katrina is not a pointless example.

 

Weapons were at the ready just that no one believed what was happening and raised any kind of resistance, that time. Next time it may not be so easy.

 

Then there is the issue of chaos, they may refuse the order in one place and not in another. I would not bet my life on the dice roll.

 

Comfort yourself with whatever you like but to the think the moral decay that plagues this country does not extend to military is just delusional. Field and General grade officers are being replaced in droves by people selected by this regime. Why?

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

Rhodes

Simple question and I mean nothing by it -- have you served? If so when and where?

The reason I ask is because it will help me to understand where your opinions are coming from.

Again, not trying to start anything just trying to understand things.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Anyone expecting the military to be the last bastion of honorable men and women is sadly delusional. The military is no more than a sampling of the population it is drawn from. Without a doubt there are still honest, decent people in our armed forces, but there are still many amoral, greedy, power hungry cretins in leadership and plenty of straight up street thugs and gangstas in the ranks.

 

Those willing to defend constitutional law and side with "we the people" in a showdown will be weeded out, neutralized, or otherwise dealt with by the powers that be. We can only hope that the good outnumber the bad and it will be so hard for OPFOR to clean their own house we will have time to get our act together and make it hell for those who come after the defenders of our Constitution...

Edited April 6, 2013 by Jpanzer

[gunman1 1,753]

Anyone expecting the military to be the last bastion of honorable men and women is sadly delusional. The military is no more than a sampling of the population it is drawn from. Without a doubt there ares still honest, decent people in our armed forces, but there are still many amoral, greedy, power hungry cretins in leadership and plenty of straight up street thugs and gangstas in the ranks. And their blood will also run red and heavily.

 

Those willing to defend constitutional law and side with "we the people" in a showdown will be weeded out, neutralized, or otherwise dealt with by the powers that be. We can only hope that the good outnumber the bad and it will be so hard for OPFOR to clean their own house we will have time to get our act together and make it hell for those who come after the defenders of our Constitution...And I will defend you with my last breath.

This is my country and the commies will have to fight for it, I'm willing to die for it

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

I stand with and honor the military until such time as I am proven wrong. I will not return to the time at the end of Vietnam where some pukes looked upon soldiers as scum...

Edited April 5, 2013 by Odd Man Out

[MultiSlacking 102]

Oh, and back on "the general feeling out there"... I live in a very, VERY rural area. Rural enough that when you hear a chopper or a military jet fly over, you still go outside just to catch a glimpse of it, because you just *never* see them. In the past few months I've seen jets in pairs and multiple pairs about every other week. A couple of weeks ago I got to see three choppers in formation. I was probably a kid the last time I saw that.

 

It's not enough to make me start digging an underground bunker or anything, but it is interesting.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Rhodes

Simple question and I mean nothing by it -- have you served? If so when and where?

The reason I ask is because it will help me to understand where your opinions are coming from.

Again, not trying to start anything just trying to understand things.

 

Either the logic is flawed and can be shown to be or it is correct and should be heeded. If you wish to understand me then I guess I will take you at your word.

 

I was raised with a front row seat to the civil strife in Alabama during the sixties I have seen the force of government turned against its people first hand and frankly wish I hadn't I was also "privileged" to witness the aftermath of Katrina first hand though I did not live there but was among those attempting to restore functionality to one of the refineries.

 

I have had a lot of opportunity to view things from a variety of points of view.

 

I served six and a half years in both the USAF and later as an Army Reservist in the 70s to early 80s. I can say without doubt the food was better in the USAF, and no one used CS gas on me there during training exercises.

 

Nothing really special, but it seems I have had more than my share of seeing a few hard truths up close. I hope I learned something at least about a few things.

 

Anything else?

[Big John! 2,062]

How do we fight a full auto with a semi auto?

How do we fight a tank?

How de we fight a plane with missles?

Answer, we dont, we loose.

 

The answer is: Every one of those weapons is manned by an American.

 

This isn't Iraq. The military is still made up of volunteers. It's still made up of our sons and our daughters. Alot of them won't follow orders to turn these weapons on the people.

 

Do you think King Hussein would NOT use the military against the people if he thought they would follow his orders? Do you think he'd even consider leaving the white house if he had the ability to use the military to keep him there?

 

I would not have followed any order to turn my weapon on Americans. And I would have stopped any who did follow that order.

 

But I would never have been forced to make that choice. My commanders would never have even given that order, no matter what the dictator in the white house said. Because right and wrong still matter in the US military.

 

As far as the dictator's private army (DHS), they will have many defectors also if they are ordered to attack the public.

 

I'll say it again. This is still America. As bad as it has gotten. As ignorant and apathetic and dependent as the public has become. There is still a core of freedom.

 

But it will get bad. It will be desperate. It won't be because B2s are carpet bombing Dallas. It will be because the economy collapses. Money will be useless and food and fuel and everything we take for granted will just disappear.

 

Stock up on everything you can get your hands on. You don't need overpriced "survival" food. Just buy canned goods. Make sure you get things with high calories, fat, and protein. Get a water filtration system. Get spare propane bottles. Just imagine you're going on a 6 month camping trip and buy everything you need now.

I worry more about "created" civil unrest than an all out military attack. But I'm keeping a close eye on DHS.

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

Anything else?

Sure -- what rank you end up? Where'd you serve? What was your different MOS? And do you like cats?

 

Edited April 5, 2013 by Odd Man Out

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Anything else?

Sure -- what rank you end up? Where'd you serve? What was your different MOS? And do you like cats?

 

 

Heh E5, bumfuck whereever, Discontented grunt, and hell no.

[thebuns1 4,323]

I would think most military people would follow orders. From what I understand, individuality and independent thinking are not encouraged.

 

Wrong.

 

If you haven't served then you clearly don't know anything but what the media has told you.

 

This board is full of veterans and many active duty. Not ONE of us would follow that order.

 

Brothers? What say you?

 

Well, I have to agree, Id tell my CO's to get fucked, and deal with the backlash. Nobody in my unit would ever carry out orders like that, at least in the enlisted level.

 

But I will expand a bit about the current troops issue. I see a lot of worry about it, with the recent horse shit we see unfolding.

 

First and foremost, I really dont think that they would follow such orders, but a lot of it depends on how the troops get played. Im kinda in between on the issue. I know when I was in, orders like that would get someone's ass fragged. But with todays climate, I kinda feel its about 70/30. And the 30% would actually attempt to carry out orders, and that depends on how they are informed of the scenario. Be leery of lies. Thats all I'll say about the US Military doing it. Too much unknown info on the inside, and the shit that does leak is rather discouraging.

 

Secondly, I know the asshats in power have a contingency plan for just about any scenario. Bet your ass on that. But, I also feel that our military would be placed elsewhere when this shit happens, and for good reason. It'd be too much of a risk on their part to possibly have their own weapons turned against them. So I feel it would be more like domestic operating units, such as DHS VIPR units or similar, or even foreign troops for that matter, carrying out such orders with ease.

 

All in all, when the shit does go down, Im not going to trust anyone in a position of power, be it a cop, or a fed or a NG checkpoint. A lot remains to be seen before I can pass final judgement on the issue.

 

The military is no more than a sampling of the population it is drawn from. Without a doubt there ares still honest, decent people in our armed forces, but there are still many amoral, greedy, power hungry cretins in leadership and plenty of straight up street thugs and gangstas in the ranks.

Ive seen plenty of this as well.

[Remek 771]

I worry about natl guard and federal police. Ie DHS. That's why Mao is attempting to send the the military out of country and defund them

 

Other than china, who'd want to gain control of our resources, I doubt any other country would send troops here. We outgun them and being foreign much fewer people would swallow that pill.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Remek

[coronet 131]

I am sorry but I cannot think of one example of this type of order being refused on the field.

Right off hand the incidents I can think of would be the draft Riots in New York during the War of Northern Aggression, Kent State, Waco (yes there were troops there, those tanks did not drive themselves), and perhaps more I am not aware.

 

Perhaps not all would follow the order but for those that refuse they may as well understand what happens next, possible execution on the spot so it gets rather dicey doesn't it. Also consider what may be the case if the troops are under fire from the civilians, this may not be the first time a clash occurred in some scenarios.

 

In short saying yes or no means little outside of context.

 

No means no. But you know why our troops won't have to make that choice?

 

Because there are still enough honorable men and women in uniform and they know it.

 

 

I would think most military people would follow orders. From what I understand, individuality and independent thinking are not encouraged.

 

Wrong.

 

If you haven't served then you clearly don't know anything but what the media has told you.

 

This board is full of veterans and many active duty. Not ONE of us would follow that order.

 

Brothers? What say you?

I second the notion.

One word = Katrina.

One word = Pointless

 

If you have a point you failed to make it. Were troops firing on the people of New Orleans? I don't seem to recall that.

 

They didn't have to fire on anybody. They took weapons with force (have you seen the video where the old lady with an unchambered revolver was body slammed against the wall? Like an 85- 90 year old lady body slammed) from law abiding citizens trying to protect their property. Most citizens have not recieved their firearms back, even though they were taken unlawfully. If you have not seen the videos on you tube, I strongly urge you to do so. The NG hand cuffed people, put them on the curb, and commandeered the house and confiscated all weapons - leaving the home owners unarmed trying to defend their property against the hoodlums. Law abiding people trying to defend their own houses aren't going to be firing on the people sent to help them. People that stayed and are trying to protect their homes from looters are 99.9% going to be on the side of the NG or any aid providing people. No NEED to confiscate their weapons. It was GANG bangers firing on the NG. NOT peaceful homeowners in McMansions. Oh - I suppose you are forgetting the video were cops were looting the stores as well. Easier to loot the stores if everyone is un-armed? hunh? ROFLMAO. WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT you ARE TRYING TO MAKE? NG Dis-Armed PEACEFUL people, and those people will NEVER get their firearms back, and they dis_armed those people FORCIBLLY (sp) Hand cuffed them and everything. Without being fired upon. So YOUR POINT IS?

Edited April 5, 2013 by coronet

[coronet 131]

OH IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HER? well it did, and it has. Remember WACO? FEDERAL troops were used against a civilian on U.S. Soil. Army tanks against civilians. I still remember Janet Reno shaking visibly because she thought she was going to take the fall for that BullShit. Even though they could have apprehended Koresh any day of the week while he was out jogging. They had to make a dog and pony show and it backfired spectacturaly against them. Randy Weaver - they co-erced him into illegal shit, then flat out killed his dog, his wife and fucked up his life, killed his kid while claiming he had an "arsenal" of weapons. Have you ever seen the pictures of Randy Weavers "arsenal"? There was a table set out where they displayed all of the weapons. They were all hunting rifles. Deer rifles and such. Bolt actions. Feds Claimed Koresh was manufacturing machine guns and grenades. After the feds killed all the women and children and burnt the complex to the ground, then BULLDOZED it to cover it up, HAVE you EVER seen ONE fucking picture of a "Machine Gun" or "grenade" or anything remotely close to what they charged him with? ONE FUCKING picture? KINDA like Sandy Hook. NO evidence, so lets just bulldoze it and pretend it NEVER happened. SHOW me ONE fucking picture from Koresh or Sandy Hook and I will shut my stupid mouth. Prove me wrong.