CNN shitting pants - RWC to make Saigas in the USA

[csspecs 1,987]

this is idiotic

 

#1, it's not Izhmash doing AKs, it's an American company RWC who is doing it, and they have 0 connection to actual AK birthplace:

 

"We are not permitted to pick up the phone and to talk to them," said Thomas McCrossin, CEO of RWC, which owns the Kalashnikov USA brand. "We were forced to stop doing business with them because of the sanctions."

 

 

There is no real link, they can not bring consultants from Izzy, they can not use any of their tech know how or processes. What is the f-ing point? This is basically a new company trying to make AKs.

 

 

#2, ugh , copyrights

 

RWC, based in Tullytown, Pa., has the rights to the AK-47 Kalashnikov brand of guns, which has been produced in the Soviet Union after World War II.

 

 

Before you capitalists jump onto this, AK-47 is in public domain. Soviet Union did not have a concept of intellectual property or copyright. Today, new Russian capitalists are trying to cash in on shit that no one actually owns, i.e. Soviet era cartoons, books, scientific works. They are full of shit and they can FOAD before I pay them a fucking copeck.

 

I don't know what RWC has paid to AK concern if anything for the "rights" but I openly piss on their "ownership"

 

For what its worth the original plan between RWC and Kalashnikov was to setup a factory in the US. If that is so then it would have a leg up in the production as they could have plans and technical resources not previously available.. Those plans existed long before the sanctions and the information and resources could have already been exchanged.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic.. Its not like building an AK is impossible, even the century arms manufactured guns are decent as of late. The Russian build was nothing special.

[_Boris_ 63]

 

this is idiotic

 

#1, it's not Izhmash doing AKs, it's an American company RWC who is doing it, and they have 0 connection to actual AK birthplace:

 

"We are not permitted to pick up the phone and to talk to them," said Thomas McCrossin, CEO of RWC, which owns the Kalashnikov USA brand. "We were forced to stop doing business with them because of the sanctions."

 

 

There is no real link, they can not bring consultants from Izzy, they can not use any of their tech know how or processes. What is the f-ing point? This is basically a new company trying to make AKs.

 

 

#2, ugh , copyrights

 

RWC, based in Tullytown, Pa., has the rights to the AK-47 Kalashnikov brand of guns, which has been produced in the Soviet Union after World War II.

 

 

Before you capitalists jump onto this, AK-47 is in public domain. Soviet Union did not have a concept of intellectual property or copyright. Today, new Russian capitalists are trying to cash in on shit that no one actually owns, i.e. Soviet era cartoons, books, scientific works. They are full of shit and they can FOAD before I pay them a fucking copeck.

 

I don't know what RWC has paid to AK concern if anything for the "rights" but I openly piss on their "ownership"

 

For what its worth the original plan between RWC and Kalashnikov was to setup a factory in the US. If that is so then it would have a leg up in the production as they could have plans and technical resources not previously available.. Those plans existed long before the sanctions and the information and resources could have already been exchanged.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic.. Its not like building an AK is impossible, even the century arms manufactured guns are decent as of late. The Russian build was nothing special.

 

 

Read #1, they haven't exchanged anything yet, they were just a US distributor, a sales person.

 

This is like a Ferrari salesman trying to open a Ferarri factory in US. Good luck.

 

Setting up a factory takes a considerable effort that they won't be able to match. Read up on Soviet factories moving during WWII. Even in those circumstances, it takes a heck of an effort and people to do it right. I can tell you right off the bat, these monkeys are going to be next Century.

[mancat 2,368]

Its not like blueprints are not available for most AK variants. I have found a few CAD drawings of trunnions etc.

 

Its yet to be seen if RWC intends to actually use Izhmash current blueprints or will make their own models. I suspect there wont be much interest if they make a generic AKM. the demand is for an SGL series replacement.

[gunfun 3,931]

 

 

this is idiotic

 

#1, it's not Izhmash doing AKs, it's an American company RWC who is doing it, and they have 0 connection to actual AK birthplace:

 

"We are not permitted to pick up the phone and to talk to them," said Thomas McCrossin, CEO of RWC, which owns the Kalashnikov USA brand. "We were forced to stop doing business with them because of the sanctions."

 

 

There is no real link, they can not bring consultants from Izzy, they can not use any of their tech know how or processes. What is the f-ing point? This is basically a new company trying to make AKs.

 

 

#2, ugh , copyrights

 

RWC, based in Tullytown, Pa., has the rights to the AK-47 Kalashnikov brand of guns, which has been produced in the Soviet Union after World War II.

 

 

Before you capitalists jump onto this, AK-47 is in public domain. Soviet Union did not have a concept of intellectual property or copyright. Today, new Russian capitalists are trying to cash in on shit that no one actually owns, i.e. Soviet era cartoons, books, scientific works. They are full of shit and they can FOAD before I pay them a fucking copeck.

 

I don't know what RWC has paid to AK concern if anything for the "rights" but I openly piss on their "ownership"

 

For what its worth the original plan between RWC and Kalashnikov was to setup a factory in the US. If that is so then it would have a leg up in the production as they could have plans and technical resources not previously available.. Those plans existed long before the sanctions and the information and resources could have already been exchanged.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic.. Its not like building an AK is impossible, even the century arms manufactured guns are decent as of late. The Russian build was nothing special.

 

 

Read #1, they haven't exchanged anything yet, they were just a US distributor, a sales person.

 

This is like a Ferrari salesman trying to open a Ferarri factory in US. Good luck.

 

Setting up a factory takes a considerable effort that they won't be able to match. Read up on Soviet factories moving during WWII. Even in those circumstances, it takes a heck of an effort and people to do it right. I can tell you right off the bat, these monkeys are going to be next Century.

 

 

You mean they haven't exchanged any communications since the sanctions. There is no info to say they haven't done so before the sanction, as well as some evidence that they have done.

 

This is more like Ferrari selling their brand name to a US company, starting the process to to licence manufacture and share tech, that getting delayed, Ferrari's being blocked due to CAFE stuff, and the US company Ferrari USA moving forward with the info and licensing which they already legally had prior to the legal barriers.  As has been said before, there is not a lot of secret to the secret sauce for making a good AK either. They own the rights, and that is about the only thing unique to Russia. Odds are their existing contract authorizes this. Also from my reading of the E.O. it may block communication, and importation, but it would not block money going out for domestic manufacture. The E.O. is an exercise of trade based authority, and only affects imports or financial involvement with imports. Thus K-UsA could probably comply with the licensing agreements and send $$$ to IZH without exchanging a single word. - Of course, this is supposition without actually being able to read the terms of their contract.

[_Boris_ 63]

Making a good AK on individual bases is artisanship. Doing it on larger manufacturing scale and be successful is completely different matter. That's the "secret sauce"

 

One thing that people don't realize is how much effort was actually put into developing guns during the Soviet era. Soviets sponsored studies for ergonomics and finish on a scale that no American manufacturer could ever dream about, because .gov owned everything and money was not an issue, something that no private company can really have. So yes, I really doubt that some guys with a bunch paper in their hand are going to crank out on the same level.

[james lambert 3,059]

ergonomics and soviet are two words that do not go together

[horatio 515]

ergonomics and soviet are two words that do not go together

Well, it does beat punching yourself in the face:)

 

Seriously though, I think we're focusing in the wrong area. As I said before, I don't have a lot of interest an an American ak, even a well made one. There are more than a few gunsmiths out there who can make me exactly what I'm looking for.

 

What IS interesting is the potential for American vepr12's, saiga 12's and saiga 9's ( still not sure how they plant to get around that 3 hole problem- though one guy here did)

 

If I were tooling up to get into weapons manufacturing, my first choice would not be the most commonplace rifle of all time. I would choose something a little more rare.

[G O B 3,516]

I would like to see a 9X39. THAT would be a brush gun!!!!

[JoeAK 337]

ergonomics and soviet are two words that do not go together

 

I think AKs feel better than ARs, maybe the Russians do too, it's a subjective thing.

 

I'm really looking forward to a Saiga-9, because I think a small AK would feel better than a small G3.

[csspecs 1,987]

Making a good AK on individual bases is artisanship. Doing it on larger manufacturing scale and be successful is completely different matter. That's the "secret sauce"

 

One thing that people don't realize is how much effort was actually put into developing guns during the Soviet era. Soviets sponsored studies for ergonomics and finish on a scale that no American manufacturer could ever dream about, because .gov owned everything and money was not an issue, something that no private company can really have. So yes, I really doubt that some guys with a bunch paper in their hand are going to crank out on the same level.

 

The big issue to date has been the over reliance on imported parts. And using mixed parts from different sources.

 

If you make all the parts you can make something of quality and do it cheaper.

Imagine if ford or gm tried to assembly line rebuild cars from the 70s.. It would be a disaster, however they could build the exact same car all brand new and it could even be better than the original, benefiting from automation and better tooling.

 

I hope that we see improvements that make the Russian imports nothing but collectors pieces. Just look what has happened with AR-15s in the last decade, they are much better than in the past, all due to improvements in tooling and new ideas being standardized. 

[storm6490 2,768]

I'm sure we can make some kickass Izhmash rifles over here. If they make a Saiga 12 and the parts are interchangeable with my original, I will be tickled fucking pink. Sure hope they chrome the barrels.

 

ergonomics and soviet are two words that do not go together

 

 

I think AKs feel better than ARs, maybe the Russians do too, it's a subjective thing.

 

I'm really looking forward to a Saiga-9, because I think a small AK would feel better than a small G3.

it would the awesome to see a mini ak sized down kind of like IMI did to the Uzi. a nine and a 45!

[LuPiN8oR 333]

That would be friggin badass Stryker, I would snap up a couple in a heartbeat. I'd really love a miniaturized 9mm ak...talk about a damn good pdw!

[storm6490 2,768]

That would be friggin badass Stryker, I would snap up a couple in a heartbeat. I'd really love a miniaturized 9mm ak...talk about a damn good pdw!

it would definitely give everybody a run for their money in the carbine department

[pedal2alloy 206]

 

Read #1, they haven't exchanged anything yet, they were just a US distributor, a sales person.

 

This is like a Ferrari salesman trying to open a Ferarri factory in US. Good luck.

 

Setting up a factory takes a considerable effort that they won't be able to match. Read up on Soviet factories moving during WWII. Even in those circumstances, it takes a heck of an effort and people to do it right. I can tell you right off the bat, these monkeys are going to be next Century.

 

 

Not really comparable to a Ferrari.  That would require Italian craftsmen.  An AK can be built by a monkey

[G O B 3,516]

So - if they build it, half the people here will come......