US use of AK-47 in Iraq

[Rowdy1124 0]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....KALASHNIKOV.xml

 

 

Check that out...

[Blaster 0]

From time to time, on rare occasions, peoples brains will actually catch up with their bodies and do what makes sense instead of what is popular. The M-16 has always been a tempermental neat freak which only reliablly functions under "optimal conditions" unlike the type you find in war.

[Bvamp 604]

I am going to MIRROR this article, from the reuters news network, to this site, so as to not lose it when the corporate website is updated, and obvisouly new news is put to the burner. here it is in entirety. note. mr AK, mr saiga, and mr russian shipper, apparantly are all have a drink together (if they drink) at the end of the day. good show, good show. at least we know mr kalashikov has gotten his end.

 

let me know if I have to remove this posting. thank you.

 

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Mikhail Kalashnikov, designer of the world's most popular assault rifle, says that U.S. soldiers in Iraq are using his invention in preference to their own weapons, proving that his gun is still the best.

 

"Even after lying in a swamp you can pick up this rifle, aim it and shoot. That's the best job description there is for a gun. Real soldiers know that and understand it," the 86-year-old gunmaker told a weekend news conference in Moscow.

 

"In Vietnam, American soldiers threw away their M-16 rifles and used (Kalashnikov) AK-47s from dead Vietnamese soldiers, with bullets they captured. That was because the climate is different to America, where M-16s may work properly," he said.

 

"Look what's happening now: every day on television we see that the Americans in Iraq have my machine guns and assault rifles in their armored vehicles. Even there American rifles don't work properly."

 

Some U.S. troops in Iraq have reportedly taken to using AK-47s in preference to the standard-issue M-16. The Cold War-era gun, renowned for its durability and easy handling, is plentiful in Iraq.

 

Kalashnikov designed his first weapon in 1947 and is still chief constructor at Izhmash arms factory in Izhevsk in the Urals mountains.

 

The factory's director Vladimir Grodetsky told the news conference that around a billion rifles had been produced around the world using parts of Kalashnikovs or based on the same design, only 10-12 percent of which were made in Russia.

 

 

....

[topmaul 42]

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp...ProdID=456&HS=1 Here is a little something I thought you might like

[SinistralRifleman 0]

The article relates anecdotal evidence and nothing concrete like "X, Y, Z units have dropped their M16s and M4s for AK-47s" or "X% of US troops are using AKs in lieu of issued rifles" Also are they including contractors in this article? Many of them use AK variants amongst other local weaponry because they are easy to obtain, and easy to obtain ammunition for.

[topmaul 42]

speaking of "contractors" I think the term should be mercenary IMHO. I believe it's a sad day when the USA hires mercenaries there I said it.

[panaceabeachbum 0]

speaking of "contractors" I think the term should be mercenary IMHO. I believe it's a sad day when the USA hires mercenaries there I said it.

 

 

The US has used contractors/advisors/scouts/aids/guides since before the revolutionary war, so I guess we have been using hired guns since before we were a country, so to say its a sad day when we start using contractors isnt accurate. We have used them for our entire existance, other than a brief period in the late 80's early 90's when it wasnt PC.

 

What I think is sad is when the contractors we hire run around cussing at everyone they see then get pissed off when they cant shoot a 10 year old kid for throwing a rock. Since they are the face of America as a whole in the country in which they work they should act accordingly.

[DaGroaner 2]

Let's get this thread back on track...

Mikhail Kalashnikov, chief designer of Izhmash Concern, a Russian firearms producer, takes aim with the latest model of his rifle during a news conference in Moscow, April 15, 2006.

[topmaul 42]

speaking of "contractors" I think the term should be mercenary IMHO. I believe it's a sad day when the USA hires mercenaries there I said it.

 

 

The US has used contractors/advisors/scouts/aids/guides since before the revolutionary war, so I guess we have been using hired guns since before we were a country, so to say its a sad day when we start using contractors isnt accurate. We have used them for our entire existance, other than a brief period in the late 80's early 90's when it wasnt PC.

 

What I think is sad is when the contractors we hire run around cussing at everyone they see then get pissed off when they cant shoot a 10 year old kid for throwing a rock. Since they are the face of America as a whole in the country in which they work they should act accordingly.

 

What in your mind is the differance between a "Contractor" and a "Mercenary" J\? Are you counting wild west scouts I see you avoided the "M" word? We are talking about units of mercinery troops not one or two used as guides. These guys are outside the UCMJ. I respectfully disagree with the notion that we need to outsource soldiering. If this country needs to fight a war we need to get the troops we need and they need to be in uniform and under the military justice system. Sorry but that is the way I feel on the issue.

[Bayoupiper 738]

There was an article about two years ago that I read where certain armored units performing security patrols were using AKs.

As explained in the article, the tank/APC(?) crews were issued sidearms and like only one M16 per crew.

Their commander gave them permission to arm themselves with AKs.

There was a quote in the article that said something about the surprise of the insurgents when they got shot back at with the same weapons they were using.

Or something along these lines.

I would hope someone else had read it.

[IndyArms 10,186]

Off track again...

 

Soon time for me to start cutting, pasting, and DELETING I guess...

 

[Bvamp 604]

take a look at wolverine's avatar picture. if you go and LOOK, there is plenty of pictures out there with our boys carrying them. it seems this is because we didnt have enough guns to go around at first, dont know if its still the case. mr K isnt going to lie to you, and why would I? (wheres that angel icon)

 

anyway, Im glad to see the big guy is in the company in a major way, and being paid for his invention still. puts a smile on my face.

[Wolverine 10,360]

take a look at wolverine's avatar picture. if you go and LOOK, there is plenty of pictures out there with our boys carrying them. it seems this is because we didnt have enough guns to go around at first, dont know if its still the case. mr K isnt going to lie to you, and why would I? (wheres that angel icon)

 

anyway, Im glad to see the big guy is in the company in a major way, and being paid for his invention still. puts a smile on my face.

 

You mean this avatar?

[kmoore 3]

Ding, Ding, Ding, Sinistral wins! "Anecdotal" info in not worth beans when trying to reach a correct decision.

 

If the president of Hyundai was to announce that Hyundai's were better than Toyota, and that he could name examples of owners who switched, would you believe him...? Doesn't mean that he or Mr. Kalishnakov are wrong, just that they haven't proved their point.

 

I do hope we can settle the AR vs the AK debate, 50 years of arguing is too long, I'm sure we are very close to a conclusive decision.

 

This argument is for soldiers anyway.

 

For the rest of us .... I don't live in a desert or jungle, and I can clean my firearm any time it's too dirty. So I'll take the refinements of my AR (the mag changes, the light round, mag changes,etc,etc.) In a similar vain, no, I won't trade my city car for an tractor, even tho it wont get stuck as much.

 

And how do we know who is in Wolvie's avatar anyways ....

[hoop762 0]

take a look at wolverine's avatar picture. if you go and LOOK, there is plenty of pictures out there with our boys carrying them. it seems this is because we didnt have enough guns to go around at first, dont know if its still the case. mr K isnt going to lie to you, and why would I? (wheres that angel icon)

 

anyway, Im glad to see the big guy is in the company in a major way, and being paid for his invention still. puts a smile on my face.

 

You mean this avatar?

 

 

Is that a duct tape FHG retainer in that picture???

[scoutjoe 276]

take a look at wolverine's avatar picture. if you go and LOOK, there is plenty of pictures out there with our boys carrying them. it seems this is because we didnt have enough guns to go around at first, dont know if its still the case. mr K isnt going to lie to you, and why would I? (wheres that angel icon)

 

anyway, Im glad to see the big guy is in the company in a major way, and being paid for his invention still. puts a smile on my face.

 

You mean this avatar?

 

 

Is that a duct tape FHG retainer in that picture???

 

 

most certianly looks that way dosen't it...ship that man some parts from the motherland

[DaGroaner 2]

I do hope we can settle the AR vs the AK debate, 50 years of arguing is too long, I'm sure we are very close to a conclusive decision.

 

There's no debate here and my decision has been conclusively made.

[325time 1]

Is that a duct tape FHG retainer in that picture???

 

 

I think that's a rigged up sling mount.

[Bvamp 604]

iraqis dont have or use duct tape. definately an american there.

[Southbound1 0]

iraqis dont have or use duct tape. definately an american there.

Hello all. Thought I'd add my 2 cents. It is a British uniform, and yes they use Ak quite a bit. (from experience)

[StarLynx 0]

...".Duct Tape" was & IS ,..as common as RPG tubes,AK 30cal ammo & Ragheads when I was thru there....They hand out cases of it ..I used ta use it to keep the frag holes from whistle'n in flight..

[pedal2alloy 206]

There is more to the argument than which rifle is better.

 

Lets say that each one has their pluses and minuses and that it is a "tie"

 

Let's say you were Ranger or something and were operating "behind enemy lines" (or doing other type of freelance work), and there was plentiful amounts of 7.62 x 39 ammo around. It would be smart to carry a rifle that could use that.

 

So some of the argument has to do with what environment you are operating in.

[StarLynx 0]

I agree.."Whatever gets your ass & crew home in MOSTLY one piece...:-)" & What ever sends Allah the most customers

Edited April 19, 2006 by StarLynx

[Rowdy1124 0]

i'll tell you what, i've shot a few of both, and i have to agree... they both have uses... i'd love to have the pop and the reliability the AK provides, but if i'm humping 25 miles to the next town, i'll take the AR anyday... The AK may be easier to learn and use, but the AR has a certain flare that some folks like...

 

Me personally, i like a gun that doubles as a baseball bat and a hammer and will fire even if the stock is broken... I'll take the AK.

[kmoore 3]

We had a match were an AK74 clone was provided and each competitor shot 30 rounds with it. In the last squad, one of the last shooters had it lock up on him (900 rounds in, no cleaning). Don't remember the cause, something to do with the hammer/bolt timing, or something. But I DO remember the fix. Remember, we were finishing a match and time was short. Owner found a piece of 2X4, set the rifle butt on the ground and proceeded to whack the bolt handle .... I wish I had thought to snap a pic, but the picture is burnt into my brain.

 

I remember thinking, this might be what they teach in an AK armorer's class.

[topmaul 42]

I remember that, Eric was shooting an identical Wsar 3 and he had nothing but problems so much so I'm getting rid of that gun. The thing is that the Wasr 3 just plane suck in my humble opinion. I believe that the quality of AKs varries greatly. Like RonSwin's AK is great I really like his gun, the Wsar on the other hand is at the other end of the spectrum.

 

K, you have to admitt that gun had the crap shot out of it. 30 shooters x30 rounds each, every shooter shooting it as fast as he could.

[PvtPyle 0]

I am glad MTK likes his weapon, but that is the same kind of arrogance that Alex Robinson shows with his guns. Sure they work, but look who they were desinged for. 13 yr old illiterate peasants to keep burried in their mud hut. Our weapons are more labor intensive and are desinged to preform well in the hands of trained professionals. If they are not holding up, I look to the user first and foremost.

 

If he does not have the proper training it is the fault of their command. Period. I have 287 guys who trust their lives to the M4, and they like it just fine. All this mid length gas tubes for greater gas flow, and super secret reliability fixes that people are doing are just plain stupid and a waste of money. If your M4 does not preform well, the answer for why can usually be found in the closest mirror.

[kmoore 3]

I remember that, Eric was shooting an identical Wsar 3 and he had nothing but problems so much so I'm getting rid of that gun. The thing is that the Wasr 3 just plane suck in my humble opinion. I believe that the quality of AKs varries greatly. Like RonSwin's AK is great I really like his gun, the Wsar on the other hand is at the other end of the spectrum.

 

K, you have to admitt that gun had the crap shot out of it. 30 shooters x30 rounds each, every shooter shooting it as fast as he could.

 

I don't blame the gun, it WAS shot a lot. It was just the mental image of Joe pounding the snot out of it with that 2 X 4. One thing broke to pieces, and it wasn't the rifle.

 

I'm pm'ing you for off topic question.

[setlab 11]

Now come on guys, anybody with any amount of experience in the military could tell you swapping there weapons for AKs would never in a million years fly with the chain of command no matter how high or low you go. And how do you know the guy in the pic is a American? No one uses that pattern of cammo in the US, unless that is some jackass in a staged one time pic. Obviously some guy in Russia knows how we do things in the American military...

[Bvamp 604]

I could go into this quite a bit further, myself, but I wont for two reasons. I dont want to start a fight, and I also agreed to not discuss a few things that were explained to me, and I try to not break my word when I give it.