fishrman 0 Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Ok, first post here - love this forum! Have decided to order my VERY first autoloading rifle, and it's for sure going to be the Saiga 7.62!!!! With that said, I hope this topic has not been beat up before and did look before posting.... My question is with this new rifle using factory ammo and scoped from the bench, what size 3 shot groups could a "better than average" marksman expect at 100 and 200 yards? Would going with the 20" barrel make much/if any difference to your answer? Also, "what must have" accesories should I consider when placing my order? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlenderWizard 12 Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 (edited) One thing to consider is that with a longer barrel, the harmonics will be worse if the barrel is not thicker, which is the case here. For a comparison, go to Home depot and try to bend a 16" piece of shoe mould, and then a 22" piece. The 22" piece is much easier to bend. All else being equal, a shorter barrel is stiffer. Also, I like shorter barrels because longer ones are more unwieldy Edited December 1, 2006 by BlenderWizard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
87vert 4 Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 short barrels look so much cooler Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crosshair 1 Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 I like the barrel longer. Where I live it is VERY flat and I want to get as much velocity out of the 7.62's powder charge for longer shots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kymasabe 1 Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 I like the barrel longer. Where I live it is VERY flat and I want to get as much velocity out of the 7.62's powder charge for longer shots. I too like the longer barrel. I have a short barreled AK for other tasks but my Saiga is long barreled, scoped, with bipod. One thing I've noticed, the longer barreled gun has noticably LESS recoil, much more enjoyable to shoot at extended range sessions. AM thinking of taking it to Orlando in January for an Appleseed Shoot, two days, 400 rounds per day, nothing but rifle shooting instruction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ppro 0 Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 I also like the 20 inch model....mine is very accurate and soft shooting. I have a number of regular AK's in short barrel but I am keeping my Saiga long barrel long. I am going to see if Tromix can do a RPK mod on the Saiga 20 for me. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aka108 0 Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Own one of each and prefer the 16". Found it to be the most accurate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fishrman 0 Posted December 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Let me ask this, if I were to go with the 16"bbl and add a brake would this still be something an early teenager would still enjoy running a couple/few dozen rounds through at the range on occasion? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Let me ask this, if I were to go with the 16"bbl and add a brake would this still be something an early teenager would still enjoy running a couple/few dozen rounds through at the range on occasion? As a 21 year old I love to run ammo through mine without a brake (16" version) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ppro 0 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 From my experience a sixteen year old is going to enjoy just about what ever you are kind enough to provide for them to shoot. I know I did...... If they might hunt with it, the long barrel would be my choice. For general shooting it really doesn't matter. Pick your poison, go forth be happy and have a ball. You won't be wrong no matter which way you go...... So just buy what you want. Kids love to shoot. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyugo 0 Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 Let me ask this, if I were to go with the 16"bbl and add a brake would this still be something an early teenager would still enjoy running a couple/few dozen rounds through at the range on occasion? the recoil on 7.62x39 isn't bad really. it's there, but it's not painful. has the kid ever fired a 20 gauge or somethign? it's about half that. at least on my yugo SKS, i suppose that's a heavier gun, but i still dont' think it would be too bad in a saiga either. 223 saigas should be reallly light on recoil. not quite the same vegetable liquifying power of 7.62 though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brighamr 0 Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 are the barrels interchangeable? I just recieved the 762 I ordered, but they sent me a 16" when I wanted a 20". They will send me a 20" if I pay to ship the 16" back, but I'm wondering if it'd be easier just to buy\install a 20"? It would also be nice to have the short for plinking and the long for hunting, what do you guys think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fasdfs 5 Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 are the barrels interchangeable? I just recieved the 762 I ordered, but they sent me a 16" when I wanted a 20". They will send me a 20" if I pay to ship the 16" back, but I'm wondering if it'd be easier just to buy\install a 20"? It would also be nice to have the short for plinking and the long for hunting, what do you guys think? Changing the barrel on a Saiga is not an easy thing to do. They're pinned and pressed into the receiver. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brighamr 0 Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 thanks, they actually sent me out the long barrel version today free of charge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 I shoot for fun only, and the shorter the better for me. FYI Saiga barrels are NOT interchangable Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mohctep 1 Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 I've got a 20 inch barrel,and although I like it,I can't tell a difference in accuracy between it and a 16 inch barreled AK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
edman99 0 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 I prefer the lines of the shorter barrel. Those 16" rifles look really cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 I have both, some with and some without brakes... I cant tell the difference in accuracy at 100 M. Both shoot the same - very well. I am pleased with 3 inch groups with 15 rounds at 50M consistently, with the irons. BUY BOTH... Simple option... then buy TWO MORE OF EACH... put brakes on one of each... then you got the best of all worlds!!! :up: :up: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlenderWizard 12 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 If accuracy is the same, why bother with a longer barrel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 why bother with a longer barrel? I think when converted it gives them more of that RPK look... Especially if ya got a bipod under them... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlenderWizard 12 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Well, that's true. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DMG 0 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 If accuracy is the same, why bother with a longer barrel? You get more velocity and less muzzle flash with a longer barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlenderWizard 12 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 I thought the 7.62x39 cartridge was designed around a shorter barrel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vermiform 26 Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 I thought the 7.62x39 cartridge was designed around a shorter barrel? Interesting. Can you expound on that? (No implied sarcasm) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlenderWizard 12 Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 I thought the 7.62x39 cartridge was designed around a shorter barrel? Interesting. Can you expound on that? (No implied sarcasm) I don't know how valid it is, but I as told that the 7.62x39 cartridge was designed with carbines in mind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fishrman 0 Posted December 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 I have seen this stated in a few places as well but have not yet found any real data backing it up. From what I've seen here and other places, it appears several folks would say the 223 is best out of a longer barrel for velocity purposes, but with the 7.62 the difference in velocity is minimal between say the 16 and 20 inch barrels. Based on what I've read, my intent is to get the 7.62 in a 16" bbl, and a 223 in the 20" flavor.... I'd agree, if anyone has a good understanding of this I'd also be extremely interested! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 You do lose a bit of velocity with the short 223 barrel. With the soft point ammo I dont think its significant but with FMJ it makes a difference in effectiveness. Concerning the 7.62x39, I think it came out in the SKS first so it was probably designed with a 20 in barrel. The AK was designed as an all-around gun to relace many types of weapons so a shorter, handier barrel length was chosen. I like the shorter barrel for this reason and have the 308-1 in 16 inch. My bolt 308 has an 18 inch barrel. Not much is lost with the 30 cal ammo until you get to above 308/7.62x51. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crosshair 1 Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 Yea, the 7.62x39 was designed with shorter barrels in mind, but that is kind of inherent with an underbore intermediate cartrige. The relativly large slug gives you plenty of energy and any extra velocity is just a bonus. (For the 5.56, velocity is life.) However, in a longer barrel you do get a little more velocity and as an added bonus, less blast and flash. Sure don't get a 36" barrel for a 7.62.39, but you are going to gain a bit of velocity from that 20" barrel and have a longer sight radius. Personaly, I like the look of the longer barrels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncle jerky 1 Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 I have a 7.62 w/long bbl and 223 w/short bbl. Except for the difference in length of bbls and magazine size,both look like identical twins. So, that is why I chose a long bbl and short bbl. Also,it's easier to tell them apart in the gun safe.Not very technical,but practical. Both shoot very well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Onepoint 0 Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 The cartrige was designed for a carbine from everything I read, but If the 7.62x39 is optimum for the 16" barrel, wonder why did they used 23" barrels on RPDs and RPKs? Anyway aside from looks, I like shorter handier rifles unless I gain something from the barrel length like velocity to coincide with accuracy at longer range, on most any AKs it isn't a major consideration IMO. The only thing I can think of other than that is 308s do spit a lot of powder out of 16" barrles though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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