pyzik 597 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 2:30 am last night I was waken by the sound of glass breaking, some one running and the door slamming. I grab the 'ole shotty and head through the bedroom door. Clear my appartment(just to note, I have two people TEMPORARILY staying with me, they got evicted and are crashing on my couches till they get money) and notice that neither of them are there. I notice a car parked outside and two people walking up, I could tell they were NOT my 'room mates'. I opened the door, shotty in hand, and was confonting two police officers(who can draw faster than me, let me tell you). I had two SIG's pointed at me in record time. They screamed "put the weapon down & get on the ground". So I tossed my shotgun on the floor and layed on the concrete. As cuffed me, they asked me what I was doing coming out with a gun, and I explain the situation, and give them IDs. They run my record and let me go. Turns out one of my friends had been drinking and argueing with a friend and threw a bottle into my fridge (glass I heard) and ran out side slamming the door. Sat and chatted with the police for a min. before they left they gave me a word of advice "Next time you are coming out with a gun, make sure the police aren't out side first". So I had a talk with my friends and explained how waking me up like that when there is a loaded shotgun next me isn't cool. By the way, Police were there because of agueing/fighting friends(outside). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlenderWizard 12 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Shit! Well, I can't say that I would have responded differently, but I am certainly glad they didn't turn your head into a canoe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 You're a better friend then I....if they were my friends they'd likely be crashing somewhere else after that incident. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArcFault 4 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Wow, close call, glad it worked out all right. The last time I saw fit to clear my pad it turned out to be good old fashioned paranoia, and I was still shaken. Cops pointing guns at me may have just caused me to load up my undies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Time to give your friends the boot.Sounds like your gonna have more trouble ahead if you dont. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Damn, glad you're O.K.. I always have a gun in my hand when I hear noises outside. Too many break-ins around here not to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Lucky you still here, damn stupid coming true your door shotgun in hand with out looking whats cooking out side, any way you still in one piece and thats cool as cool can be, lucky no rookie cop and you laying in a pool of your own blood, or worst a bad guy out there and you making a perfect target on a door, word of advise see whats cooking before you act like that you dont get kill or kill some one and end doing 10 to life for murder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 I'd say good training. It's never fun being awoken like that and you should be proud that you reacted quickly, calmly, and correctly. All the range time, all the practicing with snap caps, and all the training comes back in a split-second even if you're not even fully awake. And I'm the type that likes to know what the hell's going on and I wouldn't leave my place without my barrel leading the way either. If cops are in a blindspot that's not your fault, but it is when you thank your lucky stars that they have as much training as we do, and even more liability. But I say "nice job." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Recently I've cleared my house twice during the night. (Just got a new dog, still not used to his noises) I'm always really impressed with the precision and speed at which I do a combat roll out of the bed while grabbing the S-12 from under. Arcfault, I'm like you, paranoia like a mofo and heart rates are up, but I always come alert extrememly quickly, and get ready fast. Now I've got to work on being a little bit more quiet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oswald2001 0 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 (edited) This is entirely YOUR fault. You are setting yourself up for problems. It's you doing it. No one else. Why do you have this class of 'friends'? It's sooooo low life. It's just YOU tearing down the life you could have if you made better choices. It's self-defeating and self-destructive. And running around with loaded shotguns is imbecilic. Wake up and GROW UP, be killed or spend time in prison. As it is, you have described a LOSER life style with YOU as the architect. These type of actions are just YOU...making sure that you will have a CRAP LIFE. I was involved in the same type of crap...and it COST ME HUGE in MY LIFE. I am still paying for MY POOR CHOICES in the past. My friend, you are GOING NOWHERE if you keep creating quagmires like this. Once again, you were totally wrong to have set things up the way you did. Please...WAKE UP...GROW UP...and have a GOOD LIFE. Wonderful things are possible for you, but, living this way will destroy them. Edited April 11, 2007 by Oswald2001 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 I'm all about helping buddies when they are down and out. Obviously they are not doing to poorly if the got money for booze. Don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of. Let alone put into a position where your life could be ended just because your friends are taking advantage of your generosity and using your place as a place to party. What kind of friend puts the "hand that feeds" in jeopardy like that? Take care of YOU first! I am glad you are O.K. Like an old "skin" buddy of mine used to say. "Give 'em the BOOT!" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MD_Willington 11 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 How's the shotgun doing... took the fall okay? Kidding, kidding... That's some crazy stuff going on over at your place, I'd say it's time to find your buddies a new place to hang for a while. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrTuffPaws 2 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 What I am trying to figure out is how you are supposed to know if their our police out side? :confused: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pyzik 597 Posted April 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Well I was a little mad about the whole thing but never realy looked at it as them taking advantage. I've been getting that alot since this all took place. I am at work now and am trying to decide what I am going to do. Looking back at the situation now, I see what I did wrong and have been going through how to correct them, i.e. take a CLEARER look outside before opening the door. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyugo 0 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 What I am trying to figure out is how you are supposed to know if their our police out side? :confused: i'd say if the threat is outside your house, you stay inside, generally. about all you can do for yourself by popping the front door open, gun in hand is either get shot, or shoot someone unjustifiably. this dude needs some new roommates though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Pyzik let me put it this way, If your "friend" had such a lack of respect for your place and your stuff that he would throw a bottle at your fridge and slam your door, possibly waking and disturbing your neighbors...well, I would say that he is not much of a friend at all and really is taking advantage of you. Drunk or not you don't do that to someone who is helping you out. You've shown your loyalty to him by offering him your home...what has he shown you? Loyalty and respect are reciprocal relationships and will never work out if only one party is working at it. Just something to think about. I wish you luck. P.S. If one of my friends had done that I would pound the shit out of him and kick him out with the advice to go and un-fuck his life. But I have very little patience for disrespect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 What I am trying to figure out is how you are supposed to know if their our police out side? :confused: i'd say if the threat is outside your house, you stay inside, generally. about all you can do for yourself by popping the front door open, gun in hand is either get shot, or shoot someone unjustifiably. I semi-agree. However, there is an advantage to knowing the situation and what's going on. If you sit inside completely ignorant, you could be giving someone a huge advantage. There could soon be 5 people entering armed, armored, and from multiple entry points. That tips the odds in their favor b/c it will be a concerted action on their terms, not on yours. Thus, I am in favor of assessing the situation on a case-by-case basis. I'll try to know what I'm emerging into, but I also know my capabilities, my weapon's capabilities, and the applicable laws in my state. I may lose my castle doctrine defense, but it won't do me any good if I'm caught clueless and by surprise. Also, it's a better bet that I can discourage someone if I act as the aggressor. If they roll in, then I'm pretty much forced to react-shoot to kill-but I don't want to kill someone. Even with a valid self-defense claim or castle doctrine claim, it's not going to be fun. If instead I am making the decisions, then chances are I'll have the advantage b/c it will be on my terms and schedule and hopefully I'll have the element of surprise. Then there's a better chance to discourage instead of kill. If they don't want to be discouraged and make the wrong move, there's still a valid self-defense claim even if it's not based on the castle doctrine. But at least I don't have to react--instead they do, which is much better in my book. But to each their own--I'd rather know what's going on and be the one making decisions on my terms and my schedule. But I will bear in mind this lesson from Pyzik and try to spot any PO cruisers before doing so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 This is why I use a handgun first. If you opened the door while having the handgun tucked behind you with both hands showing you might have come out better. If you really think theres a problem its best to have the police on the phone while you go through the house. Let them know what you are doing, like carrying a shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 I just say to each it's own, if you pop some one is no way back if you pop some one and the one pop is not what you think you were shooting is no way back and you life is over, I mean is not a game to shoot some else you better make sure you life is in danger and you better can proof it on court. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oswald2001 0 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) Exactly. You can act like your life is a movie or a video game, but, the consequences are REAL. You could easily find yourself find yourself in prison before you know it. The good thing about prison is you can have sex every day. The bad thing about prison is that no one asks your persmission to have sex with you. "Bend over, boy!" I vaguely knew a guy that lived a life like you describe. He would answer the door with a shotgun, smash bottles, be drunk all the time, hung around with scum bags, bully people, constantly created drama and generally lived the low life. Everyone was afraid of him and many girls liked him becuase he was a 'bad boy' and 'the dangerous type'. He and his brother were both this way. Like you, he was living his life like it was a movie or video game. Well, one night, liquoured up as usual, he blew some girls head off with a shotgun. That was almost 20 years ago. He is still in prison. He claimed that he didn't remember anything, that he was in a black out and it most have been an accident. That was almost 20 years ago. He is still in prison. His dysfunctional friends and family rallied around him and they all protested his innocence (and believed it). Everyone vowed to fight for 'justice'. That was almost 20 years ago. He is still in prison. Many people went to the trial and kept everyone else informed. It was quite the talk of the town. That was almost 20 years ago. He is still in prison. For the first year or so, people visited him fairly often. He even got a dysfunctional broad to marry him in prison. That was almost 20 years ago. He is still in prison. Nowadays, everyone has basically forgotten about him. Even his psycho 'wife'. 'Cause it's been almost 20 years...and he's still in prison. You are the problem. The conditions you describe are psycho. You can change if you really want to. Low Life or GOOD LIFE. It's up to you. All you have to do is squeeze a trigger...ONCE...in the wrong circumstances and YOUR LIFE IS OVER. It's not a movie and it's not a video game. Juries are NOT your momma. They won't be buying any BS that answering the door (especially without checking to see who it is) with a loaded shotgun is anything other than nuts. IMO, there is a very good argument FOR gun control. Your reckless and irresponsible behavior and cavalier attitude is a good example of such an argument. Edited April 12, 2007 by Oswald2001 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaGroaner 2 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 IMO, there is a very good argument FOR gun control. Your reckless and irresponsible behavior and cavalier attitude is a good example of such an argument. Well thank goodness Oswald found an excuse to come back to make yet another pitch for gun control on a gun board. you need to seriously grow some nuts and stop wetting yourself every time you hear about someone's misadventure with a firearm. People fuck up with autos, motorcycles, hand tools and a myriad of other devices everyday. Hell doctors kill more people through negligence every day than firearms. Why aren't you sniveling about that you holier-than-thou judgmental prick? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Shit happens, you have to be carefull. A little over a year ago I received a call from my wife from her cell. 10:30 pm she was walking the neighbor girl home when 10 guys with guns, some wearing masks, and all in street cloths were coming down the street. I told her to get the hell out of there, grabbed my AK and some extra mags and headed to the porch area (has bushes for cover). They hit the house on the other side of the street, a few up. IT WAS A DRUG TASK FORCE. The kids renting the house had been dealing. Not knowing where my wife was, or what was going on, I had it in my mind that anyone shooting in my line of fire was toast. Thank god that everything went down with no b.s., and cop cars showed up within a minute of the take down. Lesson learned is that things aren't always what they seem to be, so best be sure before acting. My brother was a copper for 33yrs, the thought of shooting a cop doing his job is the absolute worst, but it was very near. Why they didn't have anything like T shirts withe DEA or something on them is beyond me, but it was night, probably 75-100 yards away, and essentially I was relying on the information given by my wife. I'm glad everything turned out o.k. for you, a house intrusion situation is much different and in your case with both parties seeing each other it could have been much worse. The hardest thing about being a cop in that situation would have been making the decission not to shoot, sometimes you only have a split second to react. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pyzik 597 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Things could have been much worse. It's quite scary now that I look back at it. I have been re-reading my NRA home defense book I got when I went through the CCW class. Friends are out by the way... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JuggleJunkie 0 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 Im sure you felt how I did when I was mistaken for the neighbor at my girlfriend's apartment that was wanted for armed robbery, (whom I looked nothing like), when I was thorw to the ground face first by the nice detective, cuffed, and interrogated via unsafed and loaded 45 to my eyeball. the swat team also invaded my property where I grew up one time because of the neighbor there sending a threatening email to his ex wife involving a deadly threat. I have a few guns pointed at me, one of which was used to attempt to bash in my car window. I was pretty pissed off about that one, but at least they apologised to me for it. I didnt do anything wrong, and that was the closest that I have come to being shot, including having a gun pulled on me in the middle of the night a few years back, that was promptly shoved back into the crackhead's mouth that tried to rob me. I was having a bad day, and that just did it. It probably wasnt all that smart of a move, and I was lucky I happened to grab the thing fast enough, but thinking back on it, it was probably a real close call, as well, although I really never gave it much thought after it happened, and actually laughed about it, while I stumbled home from the bar. guns dont scare me one bit, but startled cops or being interrogated via loaded, unsafed 45 is a bit different. lovely feeling, aint it? my dad told me a saying a long time ago that might help you: fool me once, shame on YOU fool me twice, shame on ME Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlenderWizard 12 Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 That's total BS, Oswald. Sorry about your friend and all, but that has ZERO application here. Here's the facts: Pyzik was asleep Pyzik was awakened by a loud crash of breaking glass Pyzik was scared, grabbed his shotgun and cleared his house Pyzik heard a commotion outside and opened the door holding his shotgun. Nowhere in that did I see any irresponsibility. He did exactly what I think many, if not most, of us here would do. Sure, I guess he made the mistake of letting the wrong "friend" stay with him, but that doesn't make him a low life or some such. I think you should probably reevaluate your situation since you think he is such a low life for doing this. And you can take your gun control and cram it. Exactly. You can act like your life is a movie or a video game, but, the consequences are REAL. You could easily find yourself find yourself in prison before you know it. The good thing about prison is you can have sex every day. The bad thing about prison is that no one asks your persmission to have sex with you. "Bend over, boy!" I vaguely knew a guy that lived a life like you describe. He would answer the door with a shotgun, smash bottles, be drunk all the time, hung around with scum bags, bully people, constantly created drama and generally lived the low life. Everyone was afraid of him and many girls liked him becuase he was a 'bad boy' and 'the dangerous type'. He and his brother were both this way. Like you, he was living his life like it was a movie or video game. Well, one night, liquoured up as usual, he blew some girls head off with a shotgun. That was almost 20 years ago. He is still in prison. He claimed that he didn't remember anything, that he was in a black out and it most have been an accident. That was almost 20 years ago. He is still in prison. His dysfunctional friends and family rallied around him and they all protested his innocence (and believed it). Everyone vowed to fight for 'justice'. That was almost 20 years ago. He is still in prison. Many people went to the trial and kept everyone else informed. It was quite the talk of the town. That was almost 20 years ago. He is still in prison. For the first year or so, people visited him fairly often. He even got a dysfunctional broad to marry him in prison. That was almost 20 years ago. He is still in prison. Nowadays, everyone has basically forgotten about him. Even his psycho 'wife'. 'Cause it's been almost 20 years...and he's still in prison. You are the problem. The conditions you describe are psycho. You can change if you really want to. Low Life or GOOD LIFE. It's up to you. All you have to do is squeeze a trigger...ONCE...in the wrong circumstances and YOUR LIFE IS OVER. It's not a movie and it's not a video game. Juries are NOT your momma. They won't be buying any BS that answering the door (especially without checking to see who it is) with a loaded shotgun is anything other than nuts. IMO, there is a very good argument FOR gun control. Your reckless and irresponsible behavior and cavalier attitude is a good example of such an argument. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
El_Cuchillo 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 Doesn't seem like there is much to add to this conversation. My first thought was that you are lucky the police weren't green or trigger happy. I notice a car parked outside and two people walking up, I could tell they were NOT my 'room mates'. I opened the door, shotty in hand, This is the only mistake I see in your post and in your method of clearing/defending your home. You had an LOS (line of sight) outside of your home and noticed two unidentified targets approaching and you chose to open the door. This was a mistake. By opening the door you present yourself as a target to the unknown approaching elements. (even if you open the door from the correct side and use the frame for cover you are still making a mistake) The best thing to do would have been to find some kind of cover that would still put the door into your field of fire. (IF you could keep your LOS while doing this so much the better as you can make sure the door is where they are actually going. See if they split up etc..etc.) This gives you all of the advantages. You never present yourself as a target. If they are a threat they are not going to knock, they are going to kick your door in and you are going to shoot them before they ever see you. IF they are friendly, as in this case, they will knock and announce who they are. You can then inform them of the situation with the door between you thus eliminating the risk of being shot. I hope this post helps you to better defend your home. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaddis 1,689 Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 Bullcrap. Didja ever hear of a "no-knock" raid? You still become Bubba's cell bitch if you happen to smoke a cop during one of those too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
El_Cuchillo 0 Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GonzoX 0 Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 My advise: Find New Friends. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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