quinci956 1 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 In 2006 the Florida Police Olympics was held in Lakeland. My friend "Joe" is a Deputy from central Florida and took his lightly modified S12 to compete. He came in second over all is the shotgun competition. The top six were 5 Benelli's and his Saiga. He was less than a second behind the hotrodded expensive 1st place Benelli. This year he is in Tampa competeing with his newest S12. He is suposed to shoot today but a protest has been filed to keep the Saiga out of the competition. I do not know what the basis for the protest is but I will post an update as soon as I find out. It sounds like they are afraid of his inexpensive S12 running wild over their pricey Benelli's. Time to get the fly paper! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MD_Willington 11 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Jeez... only hot rodded FUDD guns allowed for shotties? or what... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 The Saiga shotty always freaks out the Bennelli/Rem guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 They fear what they do not understand... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 They fear what they do not understand... They just don't want to get spanked again this year by a cheap Russian shotgun. Last year "Joe" did not have the 10 round mags either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 What a bunch of pussies...the saiga is not 'traditional' enough,plus his reloads will be MUCH quicker and he will prob beat them if he shoots...nothing like having 10 rounds over the benneli '8' Keep us posted//// Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 I'll take 10 rds Rock & Lock any day over an under barrle tube any day of the week for speed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I'll take 10 rds Rock & Lock any day over an under barrle tube any day of the week for speed. Well he was allowed to use his S12. He did not get a chance to test it with the new 10 round mags. He took brand new mags instead of using the reliable broken in mags he had. He took third beacause of two jams. That is still not bad after clearing two stoppages. Next year he will be attending the National Police Olympics and I may be joining him with my beat up old reliable S12. I would like to see all Saigas in the top places in these events. The guns are very capable. Once they are recognized as a viable option to the traditional Rem 870 and not as costly as the Benelli maybe they will secure a place in law enforcement and not be dismissed as a cheap Russian Assault weapon that is not worth importing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Actually, I'm surprised law enforcement hasn't embraced the Saiga shotgun more openly. It's got everything going for it. (Relatively) low costs, reliability, and faster tactical reloads. You would think that would fall under the "Win-Win" box for some pencil pushing desk jockey who makes these decisions. What I'm hoping is that if more orders come in for them then this process that is holding up the delivery of new shotguns gets sped up...I can hope can't I? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 most of the guys I show mine to, the first thing they say, with a nasty look, mind you is "what the fuck are you doing with a commie gun". then I let them try it. all bets are off then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 an aftertought: WHY if the other cops are whining because the saiga might give someone an advantange in competition..... (now you know where this one is going) WHY DONT THEY ALL CARRY THEM IN THIER FRIGGIN CARS THEN. I bet the same ones would get a heart-sinking feeling if they went up against a dangerous perp. with one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 an aftertought: WHY if the other cops are whining because the saiga might give someone an advantange in competition..... (now you know where this one is going) WHY DONT THEY ALL CARRY THEM IN THIER FRIGGIN CARS THEN. I bet the same ones would get a heart-sinking feeling if they went up against a dangerous perp. with one. EXACTLY!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 and that is the same mentality that gets us civilians killed or our rights taken away because of shit like what happened in california. its not MY FAULT the cops are outgunned. maybe they should fix that problem, and not do it by removing my rights in the process. sorry, getting off track here madmilo, wasnt my intent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 and that is the same mentality that gets us civilians killed or our rights taken away because of shit like what happened in california. its not MY FAULT the cops are outgunned. maybe they should fix that problem, and not do it by removing my rights in the process. sorry, getting off track here madmilo, wasnt my intent I'm right behind you brother. You just got off on that tangent before I did but I was headed that way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Police, want to look warm and fuzzy they don't want to look "too Military" the police are more concerned about appearance, and public perception that arming the officers with the very best weaponry. This stupid non-leathal crap. As far as a Saiga in competition I can see the police limiting the weaponry choice to service weapons but they would have to do that accross the board service pistol, rifle, and shotgun one more step the weapon would have to be configured as it is in the cruiser. If they don't want to make that a hard fast rule then bring what you have, there should be no divisions, just hit the targets as fast as possible with what ever you bring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 want a good way to stop flag burning in the states without passing any laws? BRING OUT THE WATER CANNON ON THE CROWD WHEN THEY BURN ONE. see how many people are keen on that shit. our boys walk around just fine in full combat gear over in the mideast, and people are not afraid of them as individuals. even our enemy knows we are a good people, even if we are not alike in beliefs or whatever it is that everybody is up in a roar about.... ARM THE BOYS HERE. fuck what everybody's impression is. dont WE ALL HERE have this stuff? why shouldnt the cops? f public impressions and opinions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted June 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Police, want to look warm and fuzzy they don't want to look "too Military" the police are more concerned about appearance, and public perception that arming the officers with the very best weaponry. This stupid non-leathal crap. As far as a Saiga in competition I can see the police limiting the weaponry choice to service weapons but they would have to do that accross the board service pistol, rifle, and shotgun one more step the weapon would have to be configured as it is in the cruiser. If they don't want to make that a hard fast rule then bring what you have, there should be no divisions, just hit the targets as fast as possible with what ever you bring. Topmaul, what police are you talking about? I don't give two shits about warm and fuzzy. I carry my S12 on duty so it is a service weapon. In my eighteen years in law enforcement I have never met a street cop concerned more with politically correct public perception than carrying the best weapon availible. The stupid non-leathal crap you mentioned has saved many officers and suspects from serious injury. Just because someone resists arrest does not automatically put you into the use of deadly force. Do you know any cops? If you do run that "warm and fuzzy" crack by them and see what response you get. Well I gotta go hug a fuckin puppy to keep appearences up for the public so they don't think I'm nasty. Go watch some more TV and I'll talk to you later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted June 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 Police, want to look warm and fuzzy they don't want to look "too Military" the police are more concerned about appearance, and public perception that arming the officers with the very best weaponry. This stupid non-leathal crap. As far as a Saiga in competition I can see the police limiting the weaponry choice to service weapons but they would have to do that accross the board service pistol, rifle, and shotgun one more step the weapon would have to be configured as it is in the cruiser. If they don't want to make that a hard fast rule then bring what you have, there should be no divisions, just hit the targets as fast as possible with what ever you bring. Topmaul, what police are you talking about? I don't give two shits about warm and fuzzy. I carry my S12 on duty so it is a service weapon. In my eighteen years in law enforcement I have never met a street cop concerned more with politically correct public perception than carrying the best weapon availible. The stupid non-leathal crap you mentioned has saved many officers and suspects from serious injury. Just because someone resists arrest does not automatically put you into the use of deadly force. Do you know any cops? If you do run that "warm and fuzzy" crack by them and see what response you get. Well I gotta go hug a fuckin puppy to keep appearences up for the public so they don't think I'm nasty. Go watch some more TV and I'll talk to you later. Nevermind. I've said enough just still boiling over the coment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Buzz 0 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Law enforcement should be given exactly what they need to get the job done so that they can come home safe and sound, and not one iota less. If it's the Saiga, or an MP7, or whatever, to allow less amounts to reckless endangerment. After 9/11 I walked through airports and saw National Guard posted with what I assume were automatic weapons, and I found it comforting. When you ask a man to put his life on the line you owe it to him to give him exactly what he needs to get the job done. To do anything less is obscene. As to the Saiga in law enforcement, that is exactly what it was developed for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Rodney King had it commin' "try to get up some more!!" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaltPeter 6 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 (edited) I carry mine on duty. It gets peoples' attention more than an 870 I've noticed. Edited July 6, 2007 by SaltPeter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I carry mine on duty. It gets peoples attention more than an 870 I've noticed. Back in the day, racking a shell into the 870 was very unnerving for any possible bad guy. The S12 makes the same sound when it is charged but also has the phsycological advantage of being visually intimidating as well. Most bad guys have not seen this one before and loose the desire to test you and your mysterious new weapon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Police, want to look warm and fuzzy they don't want to look "too Military" the police are more concerned about appearance, and public perception that arming the officers with the very best weaponry. This stupid non-leathal crap. As far as a Saiga in competition I can see the police limiting the weaponry choice to service weapons but they would have to do that accross the board service pistol, rifle, and shotgun one more step the weapon would have to be configured as it is in the cruiser. If they don't want to make that a hard fast rule then bring what you have, there should be no divisions, just hit the targets as fast as possible with what ever you bring. Topmaul, what police are you talking about? I don't give two shits about warm and fuzzy. I carry my S12 on duty so it is a service weapon. In my eighteen years in law enforcement I have never met a street cop concerned more with politically correct public perception than carrying the best weapon availible. The stupid non-leathal crap you mentioned has saved many officers and suspects from serious injury. Just because someone resists arrest does not automatically put you into the use of deadly force. Do you know any cops? If you do run that "warm and fuzzy" crack by them and see what response you get. Well I gotta go hug a fuckin puppy to keep appearences up for the public so they don't think I'm nasty. Go watch some more TV and I'll talk to you later. Easy tiger. I think Topmaul was referring to the "police" that police the police. The ones that are in the more political position of the job. The bueracratic end off it (beginning rather). I'm sure 99% or more street officers would take a AA-12 with a smile if the department approved and bought them.. Topmaul was referring to the guys in the office that would tell the street cop if they asked "Are you crazy?" I don't think Topmaul ment to offend and I hope I didn't offended you either. I think he was miss understood as to which "police" he was talking about. Also, just my .02 cent. I think every squad car should have full swat gear in the trunk along with a select fire weapon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Police, want to look warm and fuzzy they don't want to look "too Military" the police are more concerned about appearance, and public perception that arming the officers with the very best weaponry. This stupid non-leathal crap. As far as a Saiga in competition I can see the police limiting the weaponry choice to service weapons but they would have to do that accross the board service pistol, rifle, and shotgun one more step the weapon would have to be configured as it is in the cruiser. If they don't want to make that a hard fast rule then bring what you have, there should be no divisions, just hit the targets as fast as possible with what ever you bring. Topmaul, what police are you talking about? I don't give two shits about warm and fuzzy. I carry my S12 on duty so it is a service weapon. In my eighteen years in law enforcement I have never met a street cop concerned more with politically correct public perception than carrying the best weapon availible. The stupid non-leathal crap you mentioned has saved many officers and suspects from serious injury. Just because someone resists arrest does not automatically put you into the use of deadly force. Do you know any cops? If you do run that "warm and fuzzy" crack by them and see what response you get. Well I gotta go hug a fuckin puppy to keep appearences up for the public so they don't think I'm nasty. Go watch some more TV and I'll talk to you later. Easy tiger. I think Topmaul was referring to the "police" that police the police. The ones that are in the more political position of the job. The bueracratic end off it (beginning rather). I'm sure 99% or more street officers would take a AA-12 with a smile if the department approved and bought them.. Topmaul was referring to the guys in the office that would tell the street cop if they asked "Are you crazy?" I don't think Topmaul ment to offend and I hope I didn't offended you either. I think he was miss understood as to which "police" he was talking about. Also, just my .02 cent. I think every squad car should have full swat gear in the trunk along with a select fire weapon. What made you think I was offended? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 God! I miss this forum and its members using colorful diatribes!!!! WooHoo!!! Kick that vernacular Baby!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Res 0 Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 dont WE ALL HERE have this stuff? why shouldnt the cops? f public impressions and opinions. Unfortunately not all of us. But fighting to get it changed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 I think cops should have to follow the same rules as the rest of their civilian brethren. If the state/county/city doesn't allow the rest of the civilians to have it, then the cops can't have it either. No concealed carry, then it must be so safe that cops don't need pistols either... Same for select fire Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted July 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 I think cops should have to follow the same rules as the rest of their civilian brethren. If the state/county/city doesn't allow the rest of the civilians to have it, then the cops can't have it either. No concealed carry, then it must be so safe that cops don't need pistols either... Same for select fire Alex I'm all for concealed carry and possession of select fire for civillians. An armed society is a polite society. Most of these thugs that prey on our population are cowards. They only go after easy targets. If they think a possible victim is armed then they will move on to the next one. Until that happens, I will keep my select fire weapon. I want to have the advantage over any wrong doer bent on violent acts on the public. I don't believe I should have to engage in a fair fight while trying to protect the unarmed population that is paying me an entrusting me with their saftey. Believe it or not the bad guys don't play by the rules. They will carry converted class three weapons and laws against them having select fire weapons do not deter them from doing what they want to do. This is where me and you will have to disagree. When the bad guys start playing by the rules then I will gladly rethink my position. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted July 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 I think cops should have to follow the same rules as the rest of their civilian brethren. If the state/county/city doesn't allow the rest of the civilians to have it, then the cops can't have it either. No concealed carry, then it must be so safe that cops don't need pistols either... Same for select fire Alex Wakal, Do you live in Turkey now or are you from there. What type of restrictions do civilians have as far as gun ownership (type they can own, concealed carry, registration ect.) I know here, especially in the southern states it is not hard to buy them and a concealed carry permit is fairly easy to get from the state. I believe that the permits are now recognized in all states that allow concealed carry permits. In Florida a civilian with a carry permit can buy a handgun and walk out of the gun store that same day with it. A cop still has to wait three days before picking up his. I keep a pile of garbage handguns that people have given to me over the years. As long as it has a serial number I can trade it in and carry my gun away the same day as I purchased it. I can usually get a few dollars for the junk gun just for parts so it works out alright. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Gun restrictions over here are pretty amazing. If you can manage to jump through all the (expensive and "highly placed friends required") hoops to get a permit to own a pistol, that permit also allows carry. Otherwise, nothing with rifling (including rifled slugs) are allowed. I've got a select fire M4 and a M9, though Never said I was a civilian, civilian law enforcement or otherwise... I don't mind allowing civilians (including civilian LE) to have what they want...as long as the rest of the civilians can have what THEY want. There should be only one class of citizens in America Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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