Which one?

[Loosehorse 0]

OK guys new member here and tomorrow I will buy either the 308 or 7.62 saiga.

Which one to get? Fit and finish might be a little better on the 308. But ammo is much cheaper

for the 7.62.

Any opinions?

I appreciate any info and thank you all in advance.

Loosehorse

[jbremount 0]

OK guys new member here and tomorrow I will buy either the 308 or 7.62 saiga.

Which one to get? Fit and finish might be a little better on the 308. But ammo is much cheaper

for the 7.62.

Any opinions?

I appreciate any info and thank you all in advance.

Loosehorse

 

 

I like the 7.62 better for the following reasons:

 

(1)Ammo

(2)magazines availibilty

(3)recoil and shootability

 

If you want to use the rifle for hunting where you need a larger cardtidge such as bear/elk, then 308

[G O B 3,516]

Get the S-.308 there are a lot of 7.62-39's around, but damn few AFFORDABLE .308's.

[bigjimcalhoun 0]

Ok, what about 7.62x39 versus the .223 and why?

 

I bought an AK parts kit but after pricing everything out for me to do it right it will be a lot more money than a Saiga, assuming I finish the AK and the workmanship is acceptable. I have not shot a gun in 25 years (boyscouts) , but am starting to acquire then as I think they will be harder to get after Nov, 2008. I am looking for something to use for fun and a rifle for defense in a S__T hits the fan scenario. (shotgun will be another purchase). I just bought a Springfield XD 45 and want to also get a Ruger 10/22 rifle, 12-gauge shotgun, etc. I have never hunted animals and though I have nothing against it,I don't see myself at 38 years old picking up that hobby anytime soon, though maybe someday. The .308 is a little pricier than I was hoping to spend, but if need be and I have justification, I would do that.

 

My concerns:

Price

Accuarcy

Long-Term ammo availablity in the U.S.A., but I will get enough for an SHTF scenario.

 

Thank you

[Aloxite 1]

I'd do a 308.

 

You don't have to do any magwell mods.

 

You don't need a bullet guide.

 

You don't have the 4 holes in the sides of you receiver after you move the trigger.

 

You win the big n slow vs small n fast debate, by going with big n fast.

 

Plus there are 40-50 million 7.62x39 AK's in the world, not very many 308s.

 

Downsides are mag cost and ammo cost.

[Paladin 37]

Since opinions were asked for..

 

I would go with X39 for your SD/SHTF needs. It has much better penetration of common urban barriers (car doors, fences, neighbors hedges,etc) than a .223/5.56 ,yet the recoil is less than half of a .308 which translates to more accurate and higher rate of fire. Before anyone jumps on me, I'm sure that many of you are highly trained and its not an issue-please don't hurt me

Ammo is cheaper so you can stash vast quantities, it's lighter, so you can carry more if needed.

 

my .02

[Bvamp 604]

what the hell is wrong with you guys??

 

 

GET ONE OF EACH!!!

[bigjimcalhoun 0]

what the hell is wrong with you guys??

 

 

GET ONE OF EACH!!!

 

Thanks for all the opinions so far. I would like to get one of each. For now, here is my proposed order for my personal cache.

 

1. Springfield XD-45 (already bought)

2. Selling the AK-kit (in-process)

3. Getting a Saiga.

4. Ruger 10/22

5. Shotgun

6. 22 LR pistol

7. 44 mag or similar

8. more Saigas.

 

all before Nov, 2008, hopefully. Need buy-off from the wife.

[Bvamp 604]

well, if you can, pick up a saiga12 first....

 

as for the kit in process of selling? well, you could donate 5 bucks here to become a contributer, and it will more than likely sell in a day or two.

[Paladin 37]

Like BVAMP said, I'd get the Saiga-12 sooner than later if you want one. They are hard to get now and on the verge of taking off in popularity. 3 gun competitors are staring to catch on to them and one of the well known weapon/tactic training organizations have endorsed them. The price is going to go up and the availability is going down!

[bigjimcalhoun 0]

Like BVAMP said, I'd get the Saiga-12 sooner than later if you want one. They are hard to get now and on the verge of taking off in popularity. 3 gun competitors are staring to catch on to them and one of the well known weapon/tactic training organizations have endorsed them. The price is going to go up and the availability is going down!

 

Seems like availabilty is already down if people are posting that places have only 8 and they are going fast. I will see about saving for that to be my first one. I think a shotgun fits my needs more than a rifle. Seems like they are selling for $450 or so.

 

I should have got into this stuff years ago.

[UnidenStew 1]

Here's my two cents. If all you need is defense, and you are not a trained warrior an older Ithaca 37 pump will do just fine.

 

The older Ithaca shotguns were considered the poor mans machine gun because all you have to do is pull the trigger once, and cycle the action for repeated shots. Your like a walking claymore mine with one of those. Sometime in the 80's Ithaca changed the hammer and sear configuration so it could no longer do that. They are a dime a dozen in the local swap sheet where I live in Occupied NYS. You can get extended mag tubes for these guns as well, and they are cheaper than a Saiga 12, but I'm not puttin' down those have one. If you can afford it, get it.

 

On the rifle issue, the 308 vs the 39. Well.. its what you can afford. If you can afford the ammo, get the 308. If not, get the 39 and at least 3000 rounds to stash away for whatever you decide to get. Center fire pistol ammo, get about 1500-2000 rounds. 22LR is cheap if you do it a little at time. About 15000 should do. For the shotgun, I'd add about 500 rounds of buck shot, and 500 KO slugs.

 

When the SHTF if you shoot up all that ammo, you'll likely be dead anyway. Extra ammo is better than money in the bank. It will be the primary source of currency in a barter economy. Just my two cents. YMMV.

[bigjimcalhoun 0]

Cool man, thanks.

 

I got a tax refund today coincidentally and every place I have called has no Saiga 12s. I think a shotgun would be more useful as I could shoot skeet and stuff like that.

[HillBilly2 9]

I know of a couple of s12's in Omaha, but it will have to be ftf, they don't ship. pm if you need one.

[Havoc308 3]

+ 1 to what Bvamp said. I have a .223 and 2 308s. Looking at getting a S12 after tax time. Then I will have a Saiga for whatever social occasion I might encounter. An added bonus is the system familiarity you will gain and most of the furniture and other bits and pieces will interchange. I avoided the x39 because of possible ammo supply issues and I prefer US calibers.

[Bvamp 604]

I may pick up a few more 12s after the holiday just as an investment.

[bigjimcalhoun 0]

Ok, so lets say I have no other guns except for the XD-45 handgun

AND

I want to get both the (.223 or 7.62) AND a shotgun

 

and we, for the sake of argument, agree that it should be a Saiga 12 then what is a fair price for a new Saiga 12?

 

Would $459 + shipping + FFL for the Saiga 12 be fair? I don't know but I do see Saiga .223s for $242. It will be a stretch to come up with this money but in all practicality I think the shotgun would be more useful to me. $459 may be a fair price now, but what about 6 months from now, will they be higher or lower? Any thoughts

[Havoc308 3]

With the dollar taking a crap vs foreign currency right now and metal prices skyrocketing, my only thought is to buy right now. You would be taking a risk, but when have you seen the price of anything go down. If you don't mind shopping around, you can find good deals on everything else on your list used. Especially .44s, I've seen some barely used examples go for $ 250 less than retail.

[bigjimcalhoun 0]

Good point that prices rarely go down, were not the Saiga 7.62s about $169 last year?

[bigjimcalhoun 0]

Is the Saiga 12 really worth the high cost, especially if I am not going to convert it? I think I can get a Saiga 7.62 or 223 and also get a Mossberg 9 shot pump for the same price or even less than the S-12. I would only be getting a shotgun for home defense and shooting for fun.

[G O B 3,516]

High Cost?????

 

The Saiga's are still bargain guns. If you can afford a S-12 GET ONE!

 

If poverty is a problem, get an SKS and 1,000 rounds of cheap ammo. It's will let you have something effective NOW,while saving for better.

With a $30 dollar liscense you can have the SKS shipped to you'r door.

 

I would recommend an S-12 and a S-.308 if and when you can afford them, or as SOON as you can afford them.

[bigjimcalhoun 0]

I am very new to guns. I want to get some before it is too prohibitive to get them. I was a member of the NRA for years and I didn't even own a gun - just supporting people like you who do own them for any lawful purpose.

[mavrick16o 6]

go with the .308 its a nato round so it will always be plentiful even in case of zombie out breake, and the x39 as posted on this forum is in short supply now, "high cost of .308" ha i got 5 boxes of 150 grain rem. at dicks for 9.99 a box of 20, not match grade but effective.

[SuAside 2]

reference for Europeans in the Benelux:

 

South African (higher quality surplus) .308 Win (case of 1260): 365 €

PMP .308 Win 146 gr FMJ (case of 1260): 325 €

random 7.62x39 surplus (case of 1120): 125 €

Edited December 9, 2007 by SuA

[rocinante 100]

As far as battle rifles that civilians own it seems to be AR, AK, and FALs. I always wondered what the ratio of AR to AKs are in this country? Since the AR is America's gun there are a lot but they are more expensive to purchase and operate because the ammo is more expensive. But there has to be TONS of AKs because they are inexpensive to own and operate. Add the SKS to them and they have to be at least a sizable minority if not majority. I think if we ever would activate in a milita minuteman mode OR resistance OR SHTF either of these guns would be the ones with the most plentiful ammo. FALS are cool but I don't get where the statement ammo would be plentiful especially considering the U.S. hasn't fielded this caliber for 40 years.

 

Me I want an AR too but am content with my AK. If you are worried about gun grabbers consider cowboy guns too.

[bigjimcalhoun 0]

I am definately worried about gun grabbers. I bought my handgun first, now just go get the rest of the stuff.

 

I just got back from Wal-Mart. I was curious what types of ammo they had. They had 7.62x39 in stock but no 308. I picked up another 100 rounds of 45 ACP.

[Cryptkeeper 0]

what the hell is wrong with you guys??

 

 

GET ONE OF EACH!!!

 

 

+1, but if you can only have 1,it really depends on what you are buying it for and financing for ammo,if you are going to the range 1x a month or more i can see cost of ammo being a factor but if it is for hunting or SHTF weapon i would go with the 308 MORE POWER oh! oh! oh! the kick is so close to the x39 its not that much differance you can tell there is more power in the 308 but u can easly shoot well over 300rnds in a day with a saiga 308. also if this passes http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page...T20071004c.html you need to look at american made ammo and see how much higher it is cause that is all you will be able to get cause UN has already said if this pases they will ban all commercial weapons and ammo from being shiped over the oceans most all american made x39 is high,just as much as american made 308 so why not get the higher powered weapon. unless you can buy 10k worth of x39 ammo now ,and when this goes into effect all ammo will go through the roof. if you want some real world advice for when the SHTF read all of this http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-bin/ubb...49;t=000074;p=0 .dont fals use 308? 308 hasnt been use in over 40yrs?? M60 use 308 ,today alot of U.S snipers use 308 in iraq

Edited December 10, 2007 by Cryptkeeper

[jailbait 2]

7.62 over .223 for penetration, mag availability, etc.