MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 OH!! THE POSSIBILITIES!! If someone were to make this pneumatic type actuator and it rapidly moved the trigger back and forth it's not FA; single pull = continuous firing; and there for not in violation of any BATFE laws is it???? Looks like it could be promising huh? Maybe not ideal but a starting point for further mod's and changes. I'd be interested in helping someone if they were willing to try and tackle this assuming it's once again legal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I dunno man, I'm leaning towards no-go. I mean, I thought it was frowned upon to use something to work the trigger, besides your finger. I'm no expert though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bonesaw 1 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 yeah i wanna say that's a tad illegal. The BATFE ruled that tying a string to your M1 Garand's charging handle, then wrapping it around the trigger and trigger guard is making it a machine gun. A piece of string.... Now if they will go that far, then the outlook on this project is grim. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 OK, this is probably a far stretch but during bump fire your trigger finger stays stationary and the recoils the operator of the cycling rate if fire correct? Why would this be any different? The trigger is still being depressed one time for one round to be fired. I just might have to write the BATFE on this one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 its different because they cannot make your finger illegal, but they can make a device that takes any moron and gives them a machine gun like weapon, which is why the poor bastard here in FL got raided for making that ingenuis stock that allowed the receiver to move back and forth but keeping the stock still, all of his customers got raided as well.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Ewww...I guess I'll drop this idea until cleared by Johnny Law. Thanks again to all that helped!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 i though of something similar with using the electronics from a pb gun w/ pneumatics to operate the trigger it would still require you to pull the trigger every time it would just be soo light that you could breath on it and it would go off unsafe maybe but i could get a semi auto pb gun shooting at 18+ a second soooo thought it would be sweet but i dont think its legal so i never persued the idea Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bonesaw 1 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 also i believe i read somewhere that bump firing was illegal in one state, i think it was wisconsin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Illegal as hell, since you "activate" it only once for more than one bullet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I ain't no lawyer, but if strings and rubber bands are illegal............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Illegal as hell, since you "activate" it only once for more than one bullet. what about an electronic trigger w/ pneumatic you only get one round for each shot ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 this is a SEMI auto paintball gun with the trigger i talked about above Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) So would moto's above post be illegal? One pull for one round? Separate note: I have heard of some paintball triggers that fire on the depressing stroke and release stroke...I'm assuming that would be right? (Edited for clarification) Edited February 13, 2008 by MCASgt New River Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 IT IS NOT LEGAL. The switch, valve, lever etc. becomes the TRIGGERING DEVICE. The actual trigger no longer matters, it's just a linkage. If your finger doesn't move for each bullet, it's a machine gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) what about an electronic trigger w/ pneumatic you only get one round for each shot ? Although I'm not sure why you would do this, in theory this COULD be legal. But a pnuematic valve (or electronic switch) could be easily "tuned" to rapid-fire, making it the equivalent of a FA selector switch. Edited February 13, 2008 by BobAsh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
drooling idiot 1 Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Illegal as hell, since you "activate" it only once for more than one bullet. +10 , one function of the finger per shot is the basic rule. doesn't need to be the "trigger" on the gun , just the "trigger" that activates the firing sequence. Separate note:I have heard of some paintball triggers that fire on the depressing stroke and release stroke...I'm assuming that would be right? LEGAL, theres a letter from BATFE stating its legal to fire two shots on a mini14 per trigger cycle. one shot on the squeeze, one own the release. Personally it seems dangerous as ALL HELL to have that second shot waiting to happen. edited to add : If tromix ever offers a selector switch for the s12 for the above option please consider me first in line. "SAFE"/"SEMI"/"SEMI + SEMI". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Back in the 80's I modified a Mini to fire when the trigger was pulled and again when it was released. It really did not work worth a shit. I had to jerk the trigger hard to the rear and then release it with a snap or it would fuck up and fail to reset. When you have to pull it and release so hard each time, your shots are actually slower then if you shoot with a standard trigger. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
drooling idiot 1 Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 yeah but, that was back in the 80's. This is the 21st century. Maybe have the trigger as a loop instead of the traditional hook? I don't know maybe sometime in 2010 when you clean off your backlog you'll remember this post and think "WTF, lets give it a try........" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 I could fab one up with a solenoid, a triac, and a variable timing circuit that would run any RPM you wanted up to the full cyclic rate of the gun, but it's not worth going to prison over. Maybe when the US becomes a free country again, if I live that long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RangerM9 1 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 also i believe i read somewhere that bump firing was illegal in one state, i think it was wisconsin living in WI and our gun laws....i would not doubt it. i'll have to check my book of regs form the ATF.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rmyc 0 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Illegal as hell, i was going to build an electronic trigger when i was doing competitive sharp shooting since i could than have a trigger pull down in the oz. range. Back then when i searched it's illegal under BATF for have a electronic trigger. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Illegal as hell, i was going to build an electronic trigger when i was doing competitive sharp shooting since i could than have a trigger pull down in the oz. range. Back then when i searched it's illegal under BATF for have a electronic trigger. well thats the end of that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4793085.html ? I don't Know what it is but? I would say JAIL TIME but I do remember in I think 04 Gun Buyers Annual a.17 &.22 target that fired electronically it's not in 06 catalog but calico is not ether. Real ugly gun the only reason I read caption under it is because it had a tiny toggle switch. But I am sure even gluing an air hammer to trigger would be illegal. I don't know how things like hellfire trigger and crank fire are legal. crank fire would be cool to replace crank with pulley or gear and small motor with momentary switch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rmyc 0 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 i seen some one with a crankfire that had a bolt head + lil cordless screw driver.. if you want full auto, honestly bumpfiring is good enough. Yes i know its inaccurate but same can be said for most full autos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ML Roak 0 Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 the kid with the paint ball gun had what is called a "response" trigger, it is a semi-auto gun, when the trigger is pulled, a burst of CO2 propels the paintball, then the excess gas is used to power a small piston that pushes the trigger back to the forward position. It's basically gas assisted bump firing. There has been an electric fired gun, Remington sold them for a few years under the name "E-Tronix" and they flopped, someone also makes an electric fired muzzle loading rifle, uses a spark-plug type apparatus instead of a primer. If you're curious do a google search for a Tippman E-trigger, they work using an electric solenoid to trip the sear, they are programmed for semi, 3 round burst, full-auto, and ramped (if you cycle the trigger fast for 3 or 4 shots the gun will then change from SA to FA until you release the trigger again, restarting the process). This type of system should be fairly easy to design into a real firearm. If you could come up with a way to trigger the gas piston to fire at the correct time during the cycle of the firearm I suppose that in theory you could attach Response trigger to a real firearm. It's bad enough buying ammo, without having to worry about refilling CO2 to See ya, ML Roak Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) the kid with the paint ball gun had what is called a "response" trigger, it is a semi-auto gun, when the trigger is pulled, a burst of CO2 propels the paintball, then the excess gas is used to power a small piston that pushes the trigger back to the forward position. It's basically gas assisted bump firing. There has been an electric fired gun, Remington sold them for a few years under the name "E-Tronix" and they flopped, someone also makes an electric fired muzzle loading rifle, uses a spark-plug type apparatus instead of a primer. If you're curious do a google search for a Tippman E-trigger, they work using an electric solenoid to trip the sear, they are programmed for semi, 3 round burst, full-auto, and ramped (if you cycle the trigger fast for 3 or 4 shots the gun will then change from SA to FA until you release the trigger again, restarting the process). This type of system should be fairly easy to design into a real firearm. If you could come up with a way to trigger the gas piston to fire at the correct time during the cycle of the firearm I suppose that in theory you could attach Response trigger to a real firearm. It's bad enough buying ammo, without having to worry about refilling CO2 to See ya, ML Roak The law on paintball guns vs firearms? Edited February 29, 2008 by madmax4x4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ML Roak 0 Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 The law on paintball guns vs firearms? Your guess is as good as mine, as long as it is SA it should be OK, if FA then Class3. But with the present ATF anything they consider scary is doomed from the git-go. (for the record, I'm not recomending what I discussed above, only thinking out loud) ML Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fobmagi 0 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 absolutely not legal... there was a stock (firefaster.com) for the ruger 10/22 that assisted in bump firing by allowing the barrel and receiver to float free in the stock so that your finger actuated the trigger for each bullet fired, but you didnt have to move your finger. It was ruled illegal by the ATF. If you do anything to your gun to make it capable of firing faster than you can pull the trigger manually you are violating the law. If you want to shoot faster than you can pull the trigger stop trying to modify your gun and start harassing your congressmen. http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/revrule/ru...ling_2006-2.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Comparing paintball guns is a waste of time, since paintball guns are not classified as firearms and you can do what you please with their fire actuations. Just like BB/Pellet guns. I have a pellet gun with a suppressor. Legal. Why? Because a pellet gun is not classified as a firearm, and the suppressor is designed so that it cannot be fitted to a firearm. Any device that will fire more than one round with only one operation of the device will be considered full auto by ATF and therefore illegal. The only exception to this is the "fire on pull, again on release" setup. Perhaps because movement of the trigger finger is required for both shots. To take a BMF Activator (hand crank) and add a pulley and motor, or a nut and electric screwdriver is also illegal. You have "motorized" the weapon in both instances. FWIW, a hand crank can be used fairly accurately, much better than the bump fire "hell triggers" or whatever. Just buying a full auto legally is probably cheaper than the fines, jail time, and legal fees. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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