Modiano 5 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 quit bitching about california legal. you're federally illegal in all states and territories. Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Moving the PG forward, towards the center of balance, could only further unbalance it. Did you say that moving the pistol grip forward "towards the center of balance" makes it more unbalanced? Holy crap! It actually balances it better. The pistol grip is the support point. It's where you are holding it so you want to move it forward, right? Holy crap.... Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Think this needs to be moved to the fight club. What is this 922r stuff, frankly I always thougth that Ace stcok/block/PG was a bit lame and could possibly get people in trouble. I would not have it on my gun but that's just me. Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Moving the PG forward, towards the center of balance, could only further unbalance it. Did you say that moving the pistol grip forward "towards the center of balance" makes it more unbalanced? Holy crap! It actually balances it better. The pistol grip is the support point. It's where you are holding it so you want to move it forward, right? Holy crap.... You got that right!! The Saiga 12 is nose heavy!!! I machined/welded up steel billet bar stock (2 lbs) for my CAR Stock modification to my Saiga 12 with the Magpul stock to add weight to the rear. This allows me to hold the gun with one hand in the horizontal position to facilitate faster mag changes during competition. I am fairly strong, but before the new mods I was starting to get tendonitis hoding the gun with one hand during competitions while running and mag changes. Check it out on the pics section. This gun rocks!!! The extra weight also helps soak up recoil (basic physics). The weight in the rear is a good thing as it does not effect the quick pointability of the weapon system. Actually it seems to swing quicker. I can also add brass weights as needed to the back of the steel tube to fine tune the balance. I will be shooting this Saiga 12 at the 3 Gun Nationals in October. Link to post Share on other sites
338-06 0 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 I just thought I would check out this forum.After reading this topic most of you are arrogant, rude, and full of yourselves. This forum sucks! Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 (edited) I just thought I would check out this forum.After reading this topic most of you are arrogant, rude, and full of yourselves.This forum sucks! Are you new to forums, or just to the manlier ones? Edited September 14, 2008 by BobAsh Link to post Share on other sites
338-06 0 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 When a guy makes that kind of statement he is trying to compensate for funny feelings he has toward other males! Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 ....And Azzrial, I'll tell you what you haven't figured out. I dont really give a flying frick, what YOU think. Hey if you can handle not caring what most everybody thinks of your ridiculous posts, I think that I can live with your disapproval of mine! But, I'll call! I will admit that you had me taken it, like most here! But at this point I am thinking that nobody could really be as obtuse and ridiculous as you appear! Come on! Admit it! Are you really someone else, just pretending to be this dense? If you, this is the work of a comic genius! If, not... Link to post Share on other sites
layer 0 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 You know, I agree that bolting a bunch of junk onto a Saiga doesn't make it a real conversion. But so what? If Frick is happy with his gun and wants to believe it's converted, what's the big deal? You might think it looks like crap, I might too. Then again, I think a lot of the stuff people do to their converted guns looks like crap. I don't need to tell them about it, I just don't do it to my guns. They are doing me a favor by showing me what I don't want to waste my time and money doing. I will never understand why a bunch of people find it necessary to take turns taking shots at one guy, like a pack of wolves circling a wounded animal. I guess it's just primal human nature. Internet forums make me sick sometimes. Indy, make it stop! Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 (edited) I said I was through with this topic. I've said all that needs said to this argumentative appearance alterer. But now we have new guys reading this waste of bandwidth, and saying our forum sucks because we are just arrogant and this poor mistreated soul, who refuses to get educated about what is the correct way to "convert" a Saiga is being treated unfairly. Well if you can't see what's really going on here then maybe you should spend more time here reading the more informative threads, and less time looking for something to complain about. You are missing it totally if you see this thread as "a bunch of people who find it necessary to take turns taking shots at one guy, like a pack of wolves circling a wounded animal." This one guy isn't cowardly sitting in the middle of a circle being attacked, he's actually OUTSIDE of a circle of people who know what they are talking about and are trying to explain it so that you new guys who come along don't see what this "know it all" is saying, and proceed to screw up your own Saiga conversion and possibly get yourself into trouble. No, he's not being bullied by the wolves, he actually yapping his way around the outside of our circle nipping at everyone else's heels. I suppose you would rather us all just stop trying to preach the gospel and say "ok frick, you're really the right one here, all of us are just dense. It's just fine to buy a bolt on shortcut part, remove your factory stock, and slap that baby on there, then you really do have a "converted S-12" and can go sell it to some poor unsuspecting soul on GB, or influence some poor unsuspecting noob who comes here from some other, more PC gun forum and sees it, then thinks they can do the same. Well what is going to happen when that poor unsuspecting soul takes his nice new "conversion" to the range and is seen there with it by a federal agent perhaps, or they get stopped at a roadblock and have to try and tell the police that this funny looking "assault weapon" in their vehicle is a "legal conversion"???? I guess if it was frick he would repeat everything the cop or agent said back to him, in the order that he said it, followed by his own lame excuses and incorrect assumptions in an effort to convince THE LAW that he's right and they are wrong. But what are you going to do? Ohhhh...maybe you will blame US. You will say you read it on the Saiga-12 forums that it was a real "converted" S-12 and some guy who was allowed to win a stupid argument there said it was perfectly legal. I'm not here just to hurl personal attacks at this noob and make him feel unfairly treated by staff, or not welcome on our forum. I'm trying to get it through his thick head, just like the other guys here, that he's flat out WRONG and I'm not about to sit back and let him get away with telling YOU this is a "converted" S-12. If you possessed the gun he posted pics of on the ATV (as is visible to the average person), you would be committing a felony. I don't want to see that happen to someone, either because they bought a gun on Gun Broker, bought that stock / PG combo or one like it at a gunshow and slapped it on their weapon because the crooked gunshow salesman didn't inform them of the other parts he needed in order to use it, or just because they saw some ignorant fool spouting incorrect information on the website that is most widely used for information on doing these "conversion" correctly. That is the point YOU are missing, and the same point frick is missing. And frick you can claim that gun is legal all day long if you want. From hearing your drivel, I would wager it is NOT. I asked you already, what other US parts you had put in the gun and you did not answer me. That shows me that either you don't have them in there or don't even know what to lie and say you do have in there. If you post pictures of a gun that LOOKS illegal, on the website I WORK ON and is my responsibility to protect, then you had damned well better also include a detailed explanation of exactly WHAT makes that gun LEGAL. ETA...the gun in the GB ad that started this whole mess IS legal, although NOT a real conversion by the definition we have come to recognize. That gun is showing SIX US compliance parts. Frick can you tell me what they are? Your gun, on the other hand is only showing TWO. That's not enough BTW.... Edited September 14, 2008 by Cobra 76 two clarification Link to post Share on other sites
338-06 0 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 (edited) I am new here but I know what converted means. I have several saigas and ars.Some converted some I have not got to yet. I agree with most of you but I think some are piling on.If someone wants to leave the terrible trigger in a stock 308 so be it. Edited September 14, 2008 by 338-06 Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 When a guy makes that kind of statement he is trying to compensate for funny feelings he has toward other males! Lol! Are you serious? Funniest douchebag ever! Link to post Share on other sites
Surly 11 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 How come I didn't get an answer to the tactical electrician's tape question I asked. That's a bunch of crap. Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 I am new to this forum and forums in general, but I am a veteran of the shooting sports, competition, and gunsmithing. Some of you guys are too full of yourselves and really need to take a step back. The guy (Frick) is an idiot and some of you just jump right in there with him. This is why I do not join forums. This one could have a lot to offer, but get off the bulls#@t!!!! Warn the guy once and then cut him out of the Forum if you think he is putting out bad info. The Saiga 12 is an excellent platform to build off of both for recreational shooting and competition. Some of us have access to complete machine shop facilities and some are building in their apartments. Be professional and move forward. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Converting a Saiga is a very simple procedure that does not require a machine shop. You can do an excellent job with a few basic hand tools. I know. If you do not like or join forums then why are you here? BTW happy birthday. Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 When a guy makes that kind of statement he is trying to compensate for funny feelings he has toward other males! lol you're projecting here. Here's the thing: on gun forums it's all men. A lot of us are pretty experienced, and all of us are opinionated. We're vocal about it and arguments happen. The only reason it looks like piling on is that a lot of people disagree with him. Personally I don't care whether or not it's legal, or a "true conversion", or not. It's not the kind of gun I would build or own, but if he likes it, great. Just don't forget that these "discussions" are the reason forums exist. This one is known for it's light moderating which makes it superior to other places around the net. Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 So Frick have you sold this thing yet? Start excluding too many people, and pretty soon, you are just 5 guys standing in a circle, jerking off to gun porn, and ranting how you don't have to obey laws to have fun, each telling the other how great they are. BTW, to show I walk the walk. Here is my Saiga Conversion, there are many like it, but this one is mine.......and no, I don't wax it on Sundays, but slugs do help to shake the dust off on occasion... So who are the other 4 guys and what kind of gun porn they got? Any boobies? Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Converting a Saiga is a very simple procedure that does not require a machine shop. You can do an excellent job with a few basic hand tools. I know. If you do not like or join forums then why are you here? BTW happy birthday. Like I said in my reply; This could be an excellent Forum, leave the BS alone and stick with what's important, the further development of the Saiga. I build firearms to get the most out of them in both my personal use and competition. To acheive the results I strive for, I need to do my work in a machine shop. There is absolutely nothing wrong with building a firearm with basic hand tools and parts. Been there, done that as the situation requires and will probably have to do it again in the field. Check out the one I built for the Nationals (Picture Post) and tell me what you think. I am open to opinion and willing to share ideas. I have a lot of time, testing, and modifications in this sucker and it works great. JT Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 I already saw it and it looks great. Nice conversion! The extra work you did on that is a step above what most people do when they convert theirs. I've some of those mods myself and can appreciate that kind of inventiveness and determination. Lots of people have differing opinions about what makes a good gun forum, and what makes this particular gun forum a step above the rest in it's own way. Don't knock it just because you aren't used to it. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 When a guy makes that kind of statement he is trying to compensate for funny feelings he has toward other males! lol you're projecting here. Here's the thing: on gun forums it's all men. Oh God please don't let Racegal see this one...lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Koliadko 207 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 I was just working under the assumption that he forgot to type the word 'almost'. Link to post Share on other sites
wildcatkit52 3 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Just a thought or two. One of the arguments is that the Saiga is front heavy, and that putting an ACE folder makes it worse? How could that be? You are adding weight to the REAR of the shotgun, balancing it better. Moving the PG forward, towards the center of balance, could only further unbalance it. So much for that one. If you want to experiment, instead of shooting them Swarzenigger style, lets check the actual balance points, and post pics. The PG is the FULCRUM. If you put it at the REAR you do NOT balance it better! I read your posts with an open mind and really don't care WHAT can be called a "conversion". What I see is someone who thinks he knows everything talk a helluva lot. The fact that you are STUPID enough to make a mistake like that statement makes ANYTHING you say worthless! So quit being stupid and stop trying to rationalize. Say what you gotta say and LET IT GO! By the way, the POINT of this topic was that a guy puts a shotgun on gunbroker hoping that some ignoramus will not know the difference in it and a worked weapon such as a TROMIX conversion. That asshat, you or whoever IDK, is trying to prey on the unknowing. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Well said wildcat! Thanks for serving bro! Link to post Share on other sites
frick 3 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 "If you possessed the gun he posted pics of on the ATV (as is visible to the average person), you would be committing a felony." And suddenly, the law is becoming important, which, is what I was talking about at the very beginning of this thread, before the piling on, the lame ass name calling, etc. Thank you for adopting my beliefs to further attack me, its proving my point further. There is a hell of a difference between what you do in your own home and castle, and what you put up for sale on an auction site. And finally, we get a few people coming out of the woodwork to disagree with the pack mentality, and, CHA CHING, circle the pack around them too. I'm sure you checked the IP's, so you know its not me creating fake accounts to support my position, kind of disappointed I bet. Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 I was just working under the assumption that he forgot to type the word 'almost'. lol I didn't forget about you Racegal! Just trying to make a point. Besides, I consider you to be "one of the guys". Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 I don't know about you guys but I'm not responding to this troll any more, he's way to hard headed and dense to understand anything we have been trying to tell him. Bob I hear what you're sayin but there's no way I can even come close to thinking about a guy when I look at dat ass. Link to post Share on other sites
ML Roak 0 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 And suddenly, the law is becoming important There is a hell of a difference between what you do in your own home and castle, and what you put up for sale on an auction site. Sorry Cobra, one comment then I'll drop this thread. Yes, suddenly the law IS important, if you are not in compliance with the 922 statute you ARE breaking the Federal law, whether you are in your house, on the roadway, on Gunbroker, or at a public range. There is nothing in Federal code that says it is OK to ignore Federal Firearms laws in your own home, or anywhere else. If you manage to get caught by a curious LEO, the local Cop that pulls you in WILL contact and get an opinion from the BATF branch in his state, if they (BATF) decide you are non-compliant the case will be bumped up to Federal jurisdiction, and unless you can afford a REALLY good lawyer you will spend at minimum 51 months with the Federal Department of Corrections (85% minimum of 60 months if you have a clean record). I don't know about your state, but in Iowa the conviction rate at the Federal level is around 95% to 98%. I recently sat on an inmate that got a 5 year Fed stint for having one spent rifle case, the Feds do not play around, so if your freedom (I hate to call us free anymore) isn't worth a $30 Tapco trigger set more power to you, but don't come to the forums here and elsewhere crying for support if you get busted. I personally think the 922 law is idiotic, but until it is changed (probably for the worse), it is the law of the land. As I tell the inmates at work, jail is a great place to work, but I wouldn't want to live there. There may well be a G2 trigger and a US gas puck in Fricks gun, anybody with a grinder and a little skill can adapt a G2 to fit in an unconverted Saiga, hell, I think Dinzag even sells one that he does all the work to for you. If this is the case, my humble apologies, if not, your on your own. From what I've seen on this forum in the time that I've spent here, I FULLY believe that the owner of this site, and the Mods are desperately trying to keep people in the US (I realize we do have some out of country members here) from getting into legal trouble from information they gleaned from this site. Respectfully, ML Roak Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Aww gee now ya went and told him...lol. I wanted to see if he knew, or had actually done anything. Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Well... as much as I hate to do it... I will quote from my favorite "Indy quote" to a bonehead that used to work for him... " It Rubs the silence on its lips! " and that my friends, is that... I've seen enough here... Cobra, Juggs, Tritium... If any of yall have anything to add, please feel free to do so... otherwise, lets let this whole thing pass the way of the Dodo. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Bob Racegal says thanks! Indy that works me bro! We should pin this topic!..........in the trash can...lol. It rubs the silence.... Link to post Share on other sites
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