dk8019 5 Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Received mine yesterday, ran 200 rounds through it shooting cans and such, just to see how it would work. No Nobel OO buck which kind of sucked, but it ate everything else I threw at it. It locked up with no fitting required, load and fed just like it should. It took 11 months, but I'm very, very impressed, I should have bought two more! Great job Mike! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Etek 32 Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) 300 rounds so far with Remington, Federal and Winchester 00, 0 and 4 Buck. 20 rounds of Remington Slugs (This hurt!). No FTF, FTE or anything else. Saiga is 2001 S/N 0001 22" Bbl. Both 'A' and 'B' fitting required and done VERY slowly with a gunsmith 5/16 small file until mag 'just' fit. Drum loads/runs MUCH smoother after first 20 rounds. Gun is NON-Converted with SAIGA-12.com side folder and was fired from shoulder and with stock removed. Good product Mike Davidson! Edited October 2, 2008 by Etek Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TN_Mike 0 Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 I ran my three today and I am still grinning, I even got the well WTF did you buy now call from my neighbor ( where I live neighbors are a few miles apart so its always guess what who bought by seeing where the gun fire comes from). We are slated to have a skeet tournament at my hunting club here in a couple of weeks so I think it will be a good time to piss everyone off there lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superdavemfb 1 Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 I didn't have to modify mine at all. It was tough to lock in the first time with a light tap with my palm, but after that it locks in just like any other mag I have. I only got to fire 20 rounds today, but it was as fast as I could pull the trigger with default setting, and no problems!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Well I don't modify the rounds and I don't recommend that either berszerk. Also I think all things can be improved apon I believe you're alittle bias and you have the right to be Mike. I just shot two full drums of the wolf high brass 00 buck with the roll crimp with out hick up. I have read the warnings on what ammo to use. I don't settle for what will work but I work to see how much 2 3/4" ammo I can get to work not just cheap bulk loads found at walmart. I am not bad talking the drum I want to see them enter mass production and not have waiting list and long wait time and be as available as possible. I also wan't them to work as well at they possibly can and I am sure everyone else does especially Mike the customers who have waited a year plus for delevery. These drums rock and I don't have any complaints I just want them to perform the way Mike said they would in his posts bashing the wm and its ammo limitations and mods that would have to be performed in order to use. OG12C, I wasn't trying to rub you the wrong way. My biggest concern here is that people will start fiddling and filling when there is a very simple FREE solution laid out already for first run customers. I'm afraid people will mess their drums up. Or waste their time and money just too verify what I said about the troubled ammos. The thing about the WM is it isn't ammo limitaions. It preforms equally as bad with ALL ammo. It is the outright refusal to admit their drum has any blame or faults in it. The shills that started their attacks on me and this forum first. Their greed, lies and arrogance. Not even an attempt on their part to fix their design flaws or to make it right, unless you got in that pocket again for them. And on and on. The WM guys and their drum doesn't even compare to me and mine on SO many levels. Too many to name or this thread would quickly go another direction. To be fair there are plenty of rounds my drums feed just fine, not just value pack. I have a list of high, medium and low brass listed that should preform just fine. Buck, slugs or shot. And I'm sure many, many other will as well that aren't listed. The listed troubled ammos didn't out right fail everytime. Just enough that I couldn't rightfully and truthfully say they functioned well. Also the listed troubled ammos are all short enough not to rub the front interior surface of the drum so length isn't the reason for the trouled rounds. You say you ran Wolf Buck but I just don't see how without a mod to the round. If the ones you have are the same length as the ones I have they just aren't going to fit and function. It is possible that the ones you have are shorter than mine I suppose. I did see where someone (forget who, Ronswin maybe) posted that they could fit a certain type of Wolf Slugs. Do you have a good set of mics to measure the Wolf Buck you was firing, 2.xxx? Why didn't you mention any of the things you did too your drum? Do you have before and after results? How many rounds fired, before and after? What all type of ammos did you try? Did you try any of the troubled ammos I mentioned? Mike, I have fired over 400 rounds through my drum since it's arrival and so far the only malfunctions are with my shotshell handloads. I've gone through two 100 round packs of Wal-mart Remington #7 sport loads with zero malfunctions. Now S&B #4 buck will not reliably load in the drum due to the european roll crimp making the shell overall length slightly over 2 & 3/4. I used the drum in several stages this past weekend in the NC Recon 3-Gun with very good results and generating a lot more interest in the Saiga-12 shotgun from members of the squad I was on. I believe it was money well spent! thanks again, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpaceGhost 0 Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 My drum arrived on Friday. Well packed, good instructions. Fit my Tromix Saiga without modification. Took it to the range today. Loaded up a full drum of Winchester 1oz #8 (cheap ass promo field loads from a couple of years ago). Drum loaded smoothly and without excessive force. Shotgun functioned without a hiccup. Let the range officers double tap it too.. we all giggled like school girls. I'm starting to HOPE that Zombies are real.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Let the range officers double tap it too.. we all giggled like school girls. That's been known to happen Either that or they threaten to take your membership away....oh wait that's just Patriot and me getting into trouble... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berszerk 0 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Got mine a few days ago, they were in the wifes trunk, now I have the f*ckin flu, IM PISSED and pretty damn sick too Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Hope ya start feeling better soon man. Well I had a big surprise the other day...I loaded up my new drum and test fired it on video, followed by the WM drum. I am very disappointed to have to report that it FTFd a few times and even FTEd once. This was in the same shotgun (the one over there <---- ) that worked perfectly just before that, while filming my LRBHO in two factory mags. I'll see if I can get the vids to upload to photobucket or something. I don't really see why it shouldn't feed. With all the good reports here and all the success I've had with my beta drum, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. It locked right into this 2000 model gun, but won't go in my other one of the same year. I didn't want to trim it to fit because the Beta drum fits fine in the other one and runs great. Don't need it to use in the other gun and I want to keep it tight in this one. It's not overly tight. Lockup is perfect. The other gun is unconverted so it's probably just an issue with the tapco hammer in this one (or combination of that and the green BJ buffer). It's polished and well lubed with Tromix's Broken Arrow lube so it shouldn't be an issue. All my other mags run just fine in it. (except the WM of course..) I tried to run the WM on video right after that and it was pretty much a single shot.... Now the videos I made a couple of weeks ago using my Beta drum vs. the WM in a brand new, still in the bag (which I opened and unwrapped the brand new IZ-109 from on film) S-12.....well I'll just save that story for another day or in another thread....lets just say I was even more disappointed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
russm4a3 5 Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Well I finally had the oppurtunity to take out my saiga 12's again over the past couple of days. The first time I ran 260 shells through both my wifes unconverted and my new tromix 12 and only experienced 2 FTE's with the Tromix and only 1 FTF with my wifes shotgun. Thinking that the 3 revolutions was a bit much I turned one of my drums down to 2 1/2 revolutions and took them out again today. At 2 1/2 revolutions both saigas had multiple FTF. The second drum which I left at 3 revolutions ran flawlessly in my wifes saiga and I only had 1 FTE with the tromix. Between my wife and I we went through 240 rounds and she shot more of those than I did. Her only complaint is that it takes her way longer to load the drum than it does for her to unload it. Thanks again Mike!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunboy69 50 Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Tromix on setting #2 federal bulk pack, with a polished bolt. Have'nt touched the spring. Flawless drum after drum. Thanks Mike!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidsuffolk 96 Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Took mine out for the first time today. First 2 FTE but my Saiga eats EVERYTHING so unlikely to be the drum. Quick change of gas setting (still on heavy loads and I was only using high (ish) brass 5 shot) and from then on ran like a dream! No need to make any adjustments to the drum spring and just a small bit of filing to the rear to get it to lock, maybe 5 minutes tops. My normal SG was too long to fit as was my previous brand of slug but my new Brenneke were just the right length to fit (and fed well) What a wonderful piece of kit!!!! Many thanks to MD for bring this to the market; must have been hell for him so all praise. I can't praise this drum enough. :red_heart: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Borsig 0 Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 mine wont lock up, looks like its quite a bot too long. doesnt come even close to locking up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 mine wont lock up, looks like its quite a bot too long. doesnt come even close to locking up. Gab a file dude! It's pretty easy and you don't even need a 200 dollar reliability service! (For real... less than 5 min and your good to go....) Detailed instructions should be in your owners manual as well as this sticky thread in the MD section.... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=30195 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waltham_41 52 Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 mine wont lock up, looks like its quite a bot too long. doesnt come even close to locking up. Just remember when using the file, shave off just a little, then try to lock in the shotty and keep going. Also read the instructions carefully so you understand which one needs the work, A or B. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaleGribble 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) Got my drums about two weeks ago. Both drums locked up fine straight out of the box, in my unconverted Saiga. Haven't fired either one of them yet. Edited October 31, 2008 by DaleGribble Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaleGribble 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Got my drums about two weeks ago and both lock up fine in my unconverted Saiga. Haven't fired either one of them yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stngray 0 Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Heading out in about a half hour with mine and 200 rounds of various target loads. Ill let you guys know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stngray 0 Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) Heading out in about a half hour with mine and 200 rounds of various target loads. Ill let you guys know. Well I had some fitment issues. The drum fits fine when empty, but when loaded it won't lock in. Filed some at point A, and that didn't help. Finally figured out if I stuck my finger in and pushed down on the top shell, it would lock in. What do I need to do to fix this? Edited November 19, 2008 by Stngray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Heading out in about a half hour with mine and 200 rounds of various target loads. Ill let you guys know. Well I had some fitment issues. The drum fits fine when empty, but when loaded it won't lock in. Filed some at point A, and that didn't help. Finally figured out if I stuck my finger in and pushed down on the top shell, it would lock in. What do I need to do to fix this? It doesn't like to go in when it's full (20 rds). You need to lock the bolt back, or at least hold it back while you lock it in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Heading out in about a half hour with mine and 200 rounds of various target loads. Ill let you guys know. Well I had some fitment issues. The drum fits fine when empty, but when loaded it won't lock in. Filed some at point A, and that didn't help. Finally figured out if I stuck my finger in and pushed down on the top shell, it would lock in. What do I need to do to fix this? Stngray, Don't file anymore. I have had one other customer tell me this. I think you will find it will lock in with a little more pressure. First make sure the drum is seated fully forward. What is causing this if when the drum is loaded the feedlips expand slightly from the pressure of the rounds. Your gun must have a tighter spec that most on the interior surface of the receiver on the side to side. Please give it a try with a little more pressure. This may get easier after a few times inserting it. I am looking at very, very slightly narrowing the width of the feedlips to counter this. I am hoping to have some protos of the feedlips soon to test. If they solve this, which seems to be very, very rare, with out messing up fit or funtion I'll be changing the design for the 2nd run of drums. Please let me know if you are able to messure your inner receiver wall. The other gentleman messured the clearance of his receiver at 1.145" at the point the feedlip are. Please let me know your results. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Mike you have a PM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve in Allentown, PA 5 Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 (edited) Well I had some fitment issues. The drum fits fine when empty, but when loaded it won't lock in. Filed some at point A, and that didn't help. Finally figured out if I stuck my finger in and pushed down on the top shell, it would lock in. What do I need to do to fix this? Stngray, Don't file anymore. I have had one other customer tell me this. I'm "the other customer" to whom Mike is referring in his post. He and I have exchanged a number of e-mails in my attempt to solve the problem with my S-109 and his drum. Judging from the experince of others, my particular problem can probably be traced to the spotty quality control in the Izmash factory. My receiver probably is a few thousands narrower from side-to-side than those most other guys own. The feedlips on Mike's drum are forced to open up a bit as the rounds push up under spring pressure from underneath. In my case, there's not enough room in the receiver to allow the insertion of the drum with more than a couple of rounds in it. This is not due to the fact that the top round is contacting the closed bolt. The bolt, bolt carrier, and top cover have been removed from the gun during all of the diagnostic testing. It is due to the fact that the distance between the left & right outside of the expanded feedlips is greater than the distance between the left & right sides inside the receiver. Below are a couple of pictures of the inside of my receiver. The red circle indicates the right angle edge that I tried to round over early in the process thinking that it would solve the problem. It didn't. Not being a machinist I don't have the right tools to do the job and simply stuck my trusty Dremel into the mag well with an abrasive wheel attachment. Mike has offered to let me beta test a new set of feedlips which will be slightly narrower in the side-to-side dimension to see if they solve the problem. This in no way reflects poorly on Mike. On the contrary, he has been more than patient with me and has shown that his concern is simply to ensure that his product is the best it can be. I have nothing but praise for him and wish him all possible success. Edited November 24, 2008 by Steve in Allentown PA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve in Allentown, PA 5 Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 (edited) Sorry, duplicate post. Edited November 23, 2008 by Steve in Allentown PA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Let the range officers double tap it too.. we all giggled like school girls. That's been known to happen Either that or they threaten to take your membership away....oh wait that's just Patriot and me getting into trouble... We'll be doing it again, soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ludwigvan1972 0 Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 I got mine a few weeks ago, have run a few hundred rounds through it and it works great on all the recommended ammo. Even the not so recommended ammo works most of the time. The only disappointment is that it cannot take my Seller & Bellot 12 Pellet 2 3/4 00 buckshot rounds (they too long for the drum), I have a case and a half of those leftover from a while ago. Its ok, my AGP 10 rounder can take em. And theres plenty of other things to shoot out of the drum But overall, its great! I'm am extremely happy with the MD-20 drum. Good job Mike! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stngray 0 Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Heading out in about a half hour with mine and 200 rounds of various target loads. Ill let you guys know. Well I had some fitment issues. The drum fits fine when empty, but when loaded it won't lock in. Filed some at point A, and that didn't help. Finally figured out if I stuck my finger in and pushed down on the top shell, it would lock in. What do I need to do to fix this? Stngray, Don't file anymore. I have had one other customer tell me this. I think you will find it will lock in with a little more pressure. First make sure the drum is seated fully forward. What is causing this if when the drum is loaded the feedlips expand slightly from the pressure of the rounds. Your gun must have a tighter spec that most on the interior surface of the receiver on the side to side. Please give it a try with a little more pressure. This may get easier after a few times inserting it. I am looking at very, very slightly narrowing the width of the feedlips to counter this. I am hoping to have some protos of the feedlips soon to test. If they solve this, which seems to be very, very rare, with out messing up fit or funtion I'll be changing the design for the 2nd run of drums. Please let me know if you are able to messure your inner receiver wall. The other gentleman messured the clearance of his receiver at 1.145" at the point the feedlip are. Please let me know your results. Mike, Sorry for the long delay, been working alot lately. When I am off over thanksgiving weekend I will try to take the measurement and post it. I found if I push the top round down off the feed lips I can get it to lock no problem, so I suspect you are right and I have a tight gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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