New Saiga 308 & Surefire Mag Test Fire

[slipshod 0]

I bought a brand new Saiga 308 with 16" barrel and skeleton stock. I also bought two 25 round Surefire mags, new in wrap.

 

Took it out to the range today. Loaded both to full 25 round capacity. I couldn't even pull the action back to chamber a round! Tried the other mag and the same. Took 10 rounds out of each and finally got it to chamber a round. Fired it and the trigger stuck all the way back. Took the BRAND NEW Saiga apart and saw that the spring was so WEAK that it had trouble pushing the trigger back into position after firing. I've never seen this with any AK type rifle. I tried the factory Saiga mag and the same thing.

 

I hate this rifle already and have no idea what you guys see in them. A better choice would be the PTR-91 in any configuration compared to these hunks of crap. $1000 will get you a PTR-91 and G-3 20 round mags are ........oh how about 20 for $100 ?? Or even less if you buy them used.

 

This rifle has to be the worst AK type rifle ever. I feel like a rape victim.

Edited October 4, 2008 by slipshod

[netpackrat 566]

You should have your rifle looked at, or take it back to wherever you bought it from. That isn't normal. Also, you need another US part to use those Surefire mags legally.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Netpackrat

[gunnysmith 4]

I'll send you $25.00 for the rape kit you used and you send me that worthless rifle.

Fair trade for that POS IMHO.

Postal Money order OK?

Just PM Me Your address.

[slipshod 0]

You should have your rifle looked at, or take it back to wherever you bought it from. That isn't normal. Also, you need another US part to use those Surefire mags legally.

 

The surefire mags never really worked to begin with. I already tossed them in the trash. JUNK. You could hear the rounds bouncing around inside them when it was loaded to capacity.

The factory Saiga mag worked ok as long as I PUSHED the trigger forward after each shot. This rifle was brand new.

[sicktooth 8]

sounds like you got a lemon dude...

[GreenEye 1]

In general the saiga's are a cheaper quality rifle. They are made with parts that happen to be on hand at the time, no 2 are exactly alike. differances in Barrel twist, thickness, crown, finish (toolmarks) along with different type of trunions, bolts, recievers, ect are all present on saiga rifles. your comparison to a ptr-91 rifle is kinda like apples and oarnges. A ptr-91 is a $1000 rifle, whereas a saiga 308 is a $300 rifle (despite market markups and current prices). So how can you really compare the 2 with a straight face?? The Saiga is the russian equivalent of the WASR. All that being true, I love my 3 saiga's (223, 308-16, 308-22) and am well pleased with the price I paid for them ( $189-223, $295-308-16, $320-308-22), money well spent

 

Your issues seem like they will resolve themselves if you install a tapco FCG, and if your spring is "weak" (can't imagine how that could be) put a new spring in when you do the tapco FCG.

Edited October 5, 2008 by GreenEye

[G O B 3,516]

Take the dust cover off, you will most likely find that one ear of the hammer spring is not in the right place.

But you would have known to look for that if you weren't too fucking lazy to search the forum for the information ASSHAT. Coming here and calling it a POS is not the freindlyest thing you ever did!

[slipshod 0]

Take the dust cover off, you will most likely find that one ear of the hammer spring is not in the right place.

But you would have known to look for that if you weren't too fucking lazy to search the forum for the information ASSHAT. Coming here and calling it a POS is not the freindlyest thing you ever did!

 

Pretty hostile forum here. I took the dust cover off and have owned many AK type rifles for over 20 years. I've never seen a spring this weak. I've also NEVER had to "adjust" an ear on a hammer spring on even the cheapest AK clones. In fact, I've never had to do ANYTHING with ANY AK version other than load it and pull the trigger. Reliability is the reason why these rifles are so prolific. I'm done with this hostile forum but I'll leave you with a movie quote about the AK-47. The Saiga 308 Version should not be included in this quote as it is an inferior version:

 

Of all the weapons in the vast soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947. More commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the world's most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do. The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag. Since the end of the Cold War, the Kalashnikov has become the Russian people's greatest export. After that comes vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists. One thing is for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.

 

Lord of War, 2005

Edited October 5, 2008 by slipshod

[gunnysmith 4]

Take the dust cover off, you will most likely find that one ear of the hammer spring is not in the right place.

But you would have known to look for that if you weren't too fucking lazy to search the forum for the information ASSHAT. Coming here and calling it a POS is not the freindlyest thing you ever did!

G O B

LOL, I was in negotiations to take that Saiga off his hands.

Guess my seller flew the coup

[Jack A Sol 2]

I'll give you $150 for it if you can PM me.

[Bayoupiper 738]

Now I am confused!?

 

My .308 has done just fine since day one with both the factory mag AND my Surefire mags.....

I'm sure it's probably because the rifle and mags are crap though, right?

 

 

My point is that you cannot judge an entire line of rifles by one with a bad part.

[slipshod 0]

Now I am confused!?

 

My .308 has done just fine since day one with both the factory mag AND my Surefire mags.....

I'm sure it's probably because the rifle and mags are crap though, right?

 

 

My point is that you cannot judge an entire line of rifles by one with a bad part.

 

There is a new post on this forum about the "hammer sticking" which is exactly what mine is doing. Both are brand new just purchased rifles. Seems to indicate there is a serious quality and SAFETY issue with at least TWO brand new Saiga 16" barreled rifles out there. Mines going back Monday.

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Well, you guys can go ahead and send your rifles back then... It won't bother me at all. Two saigas having issues out of thousands. Sounds like Kel Tec could learn a thing or two from those wacky Russians.

 

There are hundreds of people on this forum that could probably fix it in less than five minutes. Hearing them out would maybe be a bit better than calling russian made stuff crap. You haven't learned the fineries of the art of insulting someone while seeking their help. It can be done, but you're a ways off...

 

I remember the ford pinto I bought that had the head gasket installed upside down, then the dealer wouldn't service it under warranty until I wrote to a VP at Ford. Now that was a good product.

 

And, in case you didn't know, saigas are made at izhmash, where the Russian army ak47's are made.

[Bayoupiper 738]

There is a new post on this forum about the "hammer sticking" which is exactly what mine is doing. Both are brand new just purchased rifles. Seems to indicate there is a serious quality and SAFETY issue with at least TWO brand new Saiga 16" barreled rifles out there. Mines going back Monday.

 

 

Two rifles out of the hundreds that are owned by people here?

I can assure you that, were it a problem with several or more guns, then the info would be on these forums!

I really didn't expect someone with 20 years of AK experience to be such a titty baby over what is obviously not a series or design flaw.

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

In general the saiga's are a cheaper quality rifle. They are made with parts that happen to be on hand at the time, no 2 are exactly alike. differances in Barrel twist, thickness, crown, finish (toolmarks) along with different type of trunions, bolts, recievers, ect are all present on saiga rifles. your comparison to a ptr-91 rifle is kinda like apples and oarnges. A ptr-91 is a $1000 rifle, whereas a saiga 308 is a $300 rifle (despite market markups and current prices). So how can you really compare the 2 with a straight face??

 

BSometer rising into yellow zone...

 

I have three 308's purchased over the course of five years, and I've interchanged the parts on at least a few occasions. If you want to look at a "what's on hand" rifle, then have a look at a cetme. My friend has a $2000 into a PTR91 with the collapsable stock, hard to find scope, and two trips back to the factory. Other than mutilating the brass, it does about the same in accuracy as my saiga.

[slipshod 0]

There is a new post on this forum about the "hammer sticking" which is exactly what mine is doing. Both are brand new just purchased rifles. Seems to indicate there is a serious quality and SAFETY issue with at least TWO brand new Saiga 16" barreled rifles out there. Mines going back Monday.

 

 

Two rifles out of the hundreds that are owned by people here?

I can assure you that, were it a problem with several or more guns, then the info would be on these forums!

I really didn't expect someone with 20 years of AK experience to be such a titty baby over what is obviously not a series or design flaw.

 

Two rifles, purchased in the SAME WEEK would seem to indicate the POSSIBLITY of many more being defective. Just think of the new Saiga 308 owner who thinks his rifle is EMPTY and then the trigger suddenly comes back alive and snaps into the "ON" position. Can't understand why you guys are so hostile to this issue. I've fired and owned AK's from China, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Russia. Never,, NEVER have I experienced the problem I had with the Saiga 308. Even the WASR crap, sloppy wobbley mag hunks of crap fuction flawlessly.

[gunnysmith 4]

Safety is in the operater, not the rifle.

Rule No1: There's no such thing as an unloaded gun.

Now it's time to get it fixed or sell it to me.

$150.00 last offer.

[slipshod 0]

Safety is in the operater, not the rifle.

Rule No1: There's no such thing as an unloaded gun.

Now it's time to get it fixed or sell it to me.

$150.00 last offer.

 

DEFECTIVE = LAWSUIT....Get it? Trigger that STICKS in the ON position with a LOADED CHAMBER?

 

Refund or lawsuit. Get it YET??

[saigafreake 27]

How would the factory miss this during test firing. I love my 308 by the way.

[thereisnospoon 1]

I'll giev you $175.00 if you throw in those two crappy Surefire Mags-after you pick them out of the trash...

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Safety is in the operater, not the rifle.

Rule No1: There's no such thing as an unloaded gun.

Now it's time to get it fixed or sell it to me.

$150.00 last offer.

 

DEFECTIVE = LAWSUIT....Get it? Trigger that STICKS in the ON position with a LOADED CHAMBER?

 

Refund or lawsuit. Get it YET??

 

Did you test function the gun before loading it?

 

I'm sure they will offer to service your gun, but refunds are typically not offered. You bought it, it's yours. If you did it by mail without inspecting it, that's your risk to assume.

[gunnysmith 4]

Safety is in the operater, not the rifle.

Rule No1: There's no such thing as an unloaded gun.

Now it's time to get it fixed or sell it to me.

$150.00 last offer.

 

DEFECTIVE = LAWSUIT....Get it? Trigger that STICKS in the ON position with a LOADED CHAMBER?

 

Refund or lawsuit. Get it YET??

Oh you're a Democrat, I got it now.

Always the other guys fault, yup I got it.

Please accept my apology for expecting any personal responsibility.

Edited October 6, 2008 by gunnysmith

[Bayoupiper 738]

Two rifles, purchased in the SAME WEEK would seem to indicate the POSSIBLITY of many more being defective. Just think of the new Saiga 308 owner who thinks his rifle is EMPTY and then the trigger suddenly comes back alive and snaps into the "ON" position. Can't understand why you guys are so hostile to this issue. I've fired and owned AK's from China, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Russia. Never,, NEVER have I experienced the problem I had with the Saiga 308. Even the WASR crap, sloppy wobbley mag hunks of crap fuction flawlessly.

 

 

 

You are making a lot of assumptions.

And we are not all being hostile.

You opened this dance by complaining.

It was asked what the problem was and several people offered suggested fixes and solutions.

Instead of chosing one of them, you come on here, where some of the world's foremost experts on these weapons are, and claim them to be junk.

 

What did you expect?

[netpackrat 566]

Can't understand why you guys are so hostile to this issue.

 

We're not hostile over the issue; several people have suggested how to fix it. If you had the first clue about how AKs work, you would realize how simple it would be and take care of it, instead of whining on the forum. The hostility is directed 100% at YOU personally, because you came on here and condemned a rifle that the vast majority of us are happy with, and have totally ignored every suggested course of action for what will undoubtedly be an easy fix. It's obvious to me that you aren't really interested in getting the problem with your rifle fixed, and have instead decided to be a fucking troll, and as such you should simply be ignored.

[headshot 52]

Take the dust cover off, you will most likely find that one ear of the hammer spring is not in the right place.

But you would have known to look for that if you weren't too fucking lazy to search the forum for the information ASSHAT. Coming here and calling it a POS is not the freindlyest thing you ever did!

 

Pretty hostile forum here. I took the dust cover off and have owned many AK type rifles for over 20 years. I've never seen a spring this weak. I've also NEVER had to "adjust" an ear on a hammer spring on even the cheapest AK clones. In fact, I've never had to do ANYTHING with ANY AK version other than load it and pull the trigger. Reliability is the reason why these rifles are so prolific. I'm done with this hostile forum but I'll leave you with a movie quote about the AK-47. The Saiga 308 Version should not be included in this quote as it is an inferior version:

 

Of all the weapons in the vast soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947. More commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the world's most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do. The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag. Since the end of the Cold War, the Kalashnikov has become the Russian people's greatest export. After that comes vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists. One thing is for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.

 

Lord of War, 2005

 

Wow. Quote a hollywood movie for your facts. I guess you are a REAL EXPERT on Aks. We all on this forum must not know of what we speak.

 

Moron. I take back all kindness and patience I exhibited with you.

[headshot 52]

There is a new post on this forum about the "hammer sticking" which is exactly what mine is doing. Both are brand new just purchased rifles. Seems to indicate there is a serious quality and SAFETY issue with at least TWO brand new Saiga 16" barreled rifles out there. Mines going back Monday.

 

 

Two rifles out of the hundreds that are owned by people here?

I can assure you that, were it a problem with several or more guns, then the info would be on these forums!

I really didn't expect someone with 20 years of AK experience to be such a titty baby over what is obviously not a series or design flaw.

 

Two rifles, purchased in the SAME WEEK would seem to indicate the POSSIBLITY of many more being defective. Just think of the new Saiga 308 owner who thinks his rifle is EMPTY and then the trigger suddenly comes back alive and snaps into the "ON" position. Can't understand why you guys are so hostile to this issue. I've fired and owned AK's from China, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Russia. Never,, NEVER have I experienced the problem I had with the Saiga 308. Even the WASR crap, sloppy wobbley mag hunks of crap fuction flawlessly.

 

Seems like you haven't even taken into account that these are Saigas, produced by Izhmash, who basically invented the AK.

Quit while you're behind. No catching up you can do will erase your asshat intro.

 

Are you an AA mole trying to establish a factory manufacturing ethic to blame your shitty product on?

[headshot 52]

Safety is in the operater, not the rifle.

Rule No1: There's no such thing as an unloaded gun.

Now it's time to get it fixed or sell it to me.

$150.00 last offer.

 

DEFECTIVE = LAWSUIT....Get it? Trigger that STICKS in the ON position with a LOADED CHAMBER?

 

Refund or lawsuit. Get it YET??

 

 

Good luck suing a russian arms manufacturer that has its dick in the UNs ass.

 

 

Have fun.

[cellsworth 21]

In general the saiga's are a cheaper quality rifle. They are made with parts that happen to be on hand at the time, no 2 are exactly alike. differances in Barrel twist, thickness, crown, finish (toolmarks) along with different type of trunions, bolts, recievers, ect are all present on saiga rifles. your comparison to a ptr-91 rifle is kinda like apples and oarnges. A ptr-91 is a $1000 rifle, whereas a saiga 308 is a $300 rifle (despite market markups and current prices). So how can you really compare the 2 with a straight face??

 

BSometer rising into yellow zone...

 

I have three 308's purchased over the course of five years, and I've interchanged the parts on at least a few occasions. If you want to look at a "what's on hand" rifle, then have a look at a cetme. My friend has a $2000 into a PTR91 with the collapsable stock, hard to find scope, and two trips back to the factory. Other than mutilating the brass, it does about the same in accuracy as my saiga.

 

 

+1 buckandaquarterquarterstaff! Quite a few of the parts going into a Saiga .308 are specific to the Saiga .308, so how can they be cobbled together from random "parts that happen to be on hand at the time"? I have owned two Saiga .308s, and have seen several others, and the barrel thicknesses have been the same, the fit and finish have been the same, the bolts have been the same, etc.... Seriously, this guy thinks you can just throw any old bolt into a Saiga .308?

 

Some Saiga 7.62X39 rifles have dimpled receivers, and some don't. Other than that, which has no functional significance, I haven't heard of mixing and matching of parts. I have several Saigas, and they all work extremely well. People who have had problems have been able to send the guns back to RAA with entirely satisfactory results. In my opinion, Saigas are excellent examples of a simple, highly functional, and extremely robust rifle design.

[GreenEye 1]

In general the saiga's are a cheaper quality rifle. They are made with parts that happen to be on hand at the time, no 2 are exactly alike. differances in Barrel twist, thickness, crown, finish (toolmarks) along with different type of trunions, bolts, recievers, ect are all present on saiga rifles. your comparison to a ptr-91 rifle is kinda like apples and oarnges. A ptr-91 is a $1000 rifle, whereas a saiga 308 is a $300 rifle (despite market markups and current prices). So how can you really compare the 2 with a straight face??

 

BSometer rising into yellow zone...

 

I have three 308's purchased over the course of five years, and I've interchanged the parts on at least a few occasions. If you want to look at a "what's on hand" rifle, then have a look at a cetme. My friend has a $2000 into a PTR91 with the collapsable stock, hard to find scope, and two trips back to the factory. Other than mutilating the brass, it does about the same in accuracy as my saiga.

 

 

+1 buckandaquarterquarterstaff! Quite a few of the parts going into a Saiga .308 are specific to the Saiga .308, so how can they be cobbled together from random "parts that happen to be on hand at the time"? I have owned two Saiga .308s, and have seen several others, and the barrel thicknesses have been the same, the fit and finish have been the same, the bolts have been the same, etc.... Seriously, this guy thinks you can just throw any old bolt into a Saiga .308?

 

Some Saiga 7.62X39 rifles have dimpled receivers, and some don't. Other than that, which has no functional significance, I haven't heard of mixing and matching of parts. I have several Saigas, and they all work extremely well. People who have had problems have been able to send the guns back to RAA with entirely satisfactory results. In my opinion, Saigas are excellent examples of a simple, highly functional, and extremely robust rifle design.

 

I was talking about saiga's in general. The 223 (and probably the 7.62x39's) come with round front trunions and flat front truniuns. Many saiga have recievers with the pistol grip nut cut, many do not. The saiga 223 has come with no less than 3 different barrel twist ratios (1:7, 1:9, 1:10). ALL saigas have different diameter barrels, don't believe me just go to dinzag's page and see what all diameters have come on the different saigas. The saiga 308 has had at least 2 different bolt carrier types, a "high ground" and a "low ground", the "low ground" is the one that is haveing all the problems with the surefire mags. So in general maybe you should learn what you are talking about before even opening your mouth. And I was not bashing saigas at all if you would have read my original post, you would see i have 3 of them and love them. And when I said "from parts that happen to be on hand at the time", I never even implied that any of said parts were inferior or wrong parts to use.

Edited October 6, 2008 by GreenEye

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

In general the saiga's are a cheaper quality rifle. They are made with parts that happen to be on hand at the time, no 2 are exactly alike. differances in Barrel twist, thickness, crown, finish (toolmarks) along with different type of trunions, bolts, recievers, ect are all present on saiga rifles. your comparison to a ptr-91 rifle is kinda like apples and oarnges. A ptr-91 is a $1000 rifle, whereas a saiga 308 is a $300 rifle (despite market markups and current prices). So how can you really compare the 2 with a straight face??

 

BSometer rising into yellow zone...

 

I have three 308's purchased over the course of five years, and I've interchanged the parts on at least a few occasions. If you want to look at a "what's on hand" rifle, then have a look at a cetme. My friend has a $2000 into a PTR91 with the collapsable stock, hard to find scope, and two trips back to the factory. Other than mutilating the brass, it does about the same in accuracy as my saiga.

 

 

+1 buckandaquarterquarterstaff! Quite a few of the parts going into a Saiga .308 are specific to the Saiga .308, so how can they be cobbled together from random "parts that happen to be on hand at the time"? I have owned two Saiga .308s, and have seen several others, and the barrel thicknesses have been the same, the fit and finish have been the same, the bolts have been the same, etc.... Seriously, this guy thinks you can just throw any old bolt into a Saiga .308?

 

Some Saiga 7.62X39 rifles have dimpled receivers, and some don't. Other than that, which has no functional significance, I haven't heard of mixing and matching of parts. I have several Saigas, and they all work extremely well. People who have had problems have been able to send the guns back to RAA with entirely satisfactory results. In my opinion, Saigas are excellent examples of a simple, highly functional, and extremely robust rifle design.

 

I was talking about saiga's in general. The 223 (and probably the 7.62x39's) come with round front trunions and flat front truniuns. Many saiga have recievers with the pistol grip nut cut, many do not. The saiga 223 has come with no less than 3 different barrel twist ratios (1:7, 1:9, 1:10). ALL saigas have different diameter barrels, don't believe me just go to dinzag's page and see what all diameters have come on the different saigas. The saiga 308 has had at least 2 different bolt carrier types, a "high ground" and a "low ground", the "low ground" is the one that is haveing all the problems with the surefire mags. So in general maybe you should learn what you are talking about before even opening your mouth. And I was not bashing saigas at all if you would have read my original post, you would see i have 3 of them and love them. And when I said "from parts that happen to be on hand at the time", I never even implied that any of said parts were inferior or wrong parts to use.

 

God knows how much fun you'd have trying to interchange parts of a dozen same caliber winchester model 70's from the last 15 years. I suppose that's a parts bin "whatever's on hand" offering as well? My sincerest apologies for not considering twist rates and bbl diameters as an example of "what's on hand" manufacturing.

Edited October 6, 2008 by buckandaquarterquarterstaff