Questions for trained fighters

[22_Shooter 1,560]

How exactly is the best way to knock someone out when throwing punches?

 

I've heard that the chin/jaw is the best place to go for, but I've also heard the side of the head. If it is the chin/jaw, what type of throw is better? A straight punch, or some kind of hook?

 

One more question: Does having your jaw clenched or unclenched have any effect when someone is hitting you?

 

 

I've been seriously thinking about joining an MMA school that is somewhat near by. I've lost 30LBS in the last 4-5 months, and feel like I'm in much better shape than before. But I'm well aware that I would get my ass handed to me when first starting classes . But hey, I have no problem with that at all.

 

School me.

[WardenWolf 6]

Firstly, I must say I strongly recommend against participating in MMA. With too little regulation and each fighter having their own techniques with widely varying degrees of discipline and control, you WILL GET HURT. It is not like contact karate, kickboxing, or other martial arts where both fighters are trained in the same basic techniques and are highly disciplined and controlled before they ever enter the ring, and educated about what each type of strike will do to an opponent. No, you have Joe ToughGuy off the street coming in and just going for the knockout with absolutely no concept of safety and no regard for injury to his opponent. Basic instructions on what NOT to do in a fight don't cover everything.

 

Second, for jaw strikes, you generally want a hook. Punching a person straight on there generally isn't very effective, and the rotational energy of a hook adds to the effect. Head strikes depend on what type of head protection is worn, but be warned that this increases the risk of injury significantly.

 

Having your jaw clenched really depends on the specific strike. Your jaw will break easier if it's not locked shut, although this also transfers energy from the blow to your teeth.

 

I believe fighting is something to take seriously. It is not something to play at. The risks are too great, and it is hard to morally justify the fact that you may inadvertently cause serious injury to your opponent via a knuckle that finds an eye socket or a head blow that does brain damage. You can never take back a blow. Once you've done it, there's no going back. It takes just a split second, one "Oh shit" moment, and you've changed someone's life forever. The risks are greatly lessened in a more traditional martial arts environment, where both opponents have strong training and good knowledge of their techniques, but in an unregulated situation like MMA you're just asking for trouble.

[BobAsh 582]

I disagree, Mike. There's nothing wrong with training at a good MMA school. You will get beat on, though. Minor injuries are part of the game. How old are you, 22 shooter?

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Firstly, I must say I strongly recommend against participating in MMA. With too little regulation and each fighter having their own techniques with widely varying degrees of discipline and control, you WILL GET HURT. It is not like contact karate, kickboxing, or other martial arts where both fighters are trained in the same basic techniques and are highly disciplined and controlled before they ever enter the ring, and educated about what each type of strike will do to an opponent. No, you have Joe ToughGuy off the street coming in and just going for the knockout with absolutely no concept of safety and no regard for injury to his opponent. Basic instructions on what NOT to do in a fight don't cover everything.

 

Second, for jaw strikes, you generally want a hook. Punching a person straight on there generally isn't very effective, and the rotational energy of a hook adds to the effect. Head strikes depend on what type of head protection is worn, but be warned that this increases the risk of injury significantly.

 

Having your jaw clenched really depends on the specific strike. Your jaw will break easier if it's not locked shut, although this also transfers energy from the blow to your teeth.

 

I believe fighting is something to take seriously. It is not something to play at. The risks are too great, and it is hard to morally justify the fact that you may inadvertently cause serious injury to your opponent via a knuckle that finds an eye socket or a head blow that does brain damage. You can never take back a blow. Once you've done it, there's no going back. It takes just a split second, one "Oh shit" moment, and you've changed someone's life forever. The risks are greatly lessened in a more traditional martial arts environment, where both opponents have strong training and good knowledge of their techniques, but in an unregulated situation like MMA you're just asking for trouble.

 

I've always heard MMA was much safer than, say, boxing . Simply due to the fact that once you can't intelligently defend yourself, the ref calls it. As opposed to boxing, where if you can manage to stand, you can "fight".

 

OK, so hook=better chance at a knockout. Keep my jaw clenched when being hit. Got it. I've knocked out 1 or 2 people, but it was in street fight scenarios where I have no idea exactly how I did it. More of a "Well damn" kinda moment .

 

Due to the obvious unsafe nature of fighting someone you don't know, in the streets, but loving the actual fighting part, is what got me interested in MMA (plus, I love watching it too).

 

I disagree, Mike. There's nothing wrong with training at a good MMA school. You will get beat on, though. Minor injuries are part of the game. How old are you, 22 shooter?

 

I'm 25.

 

You're one of the ones I hoped would respond, as I know from reading some of your posts that your into MMA on some level.

 

Getting beat on and minor injuries would be no problem for me. I'm not some nutjob who likes pain or anything like that, but I have to admit, there's a certain rush you get when fighting. I haven't been in a fight in a long time, and a craving for one is getting strong . Call me sick, I dunno.

[chris410 0]

The jaw is known as "the button" because a good shot to the jaw causes it to move up and in and the jawbone pinches a nerve that actually kind of just shuts you down temporarily. At least I think thats how it works. I'm no MMA expert or pro fighter or anything, but I'd learn how to walk before I learned how to run. Dont go into a fight looking for some glorious knockout. I'd focus on your foot placement and movement (circling) and learn how to use the jab before you go out there with one arm cocked swingin for the fences. Also, wrestling, judo and/or ju jitsu should not be overlooked, cuz its gonna be tough gettin the KO when some ape tosses you to the ground and manhandles you into "compliance". Good luck though man, let us know how you make out, I'd love to learn some combat sports but theres no schools round here.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

you wanna kill 'em.... sharp upper cut (Putting pressure on the brain stem) followed by a cross (Snap!)

 

at least thats what happened when Du Ku Kim fought Ray Mancini......

[BigBump 1]

Hello Gentlemen,

 

Long time lurker, first real post - I have an S-12 and am in the process of converting. So I'm glad this forum exists....

 

Now onto the answer.

 

Any kind of punch that can land the aforementioned buttons - the jaw, the temple, back of the head, solar plexus groin has the ability to "knock out" an opponent. The hardeest part of creating a knock-out punch is generating the punching power. To do that is learning to use your body weight in concert with the punch you choose to throw. The easiest punch to knock someone out with is actually a straight right that lands on the side of the jaw, usually off a counter punch or if someone's dumb enough to over extend a punch and you counter (hooks are great for that).

 

Now onto a really easy to learn but hard to master way to train knockout punching power. This is a crude description, with no reasoning behind what I'm telling you to do, but you'll get the point.

 

Grab a dishtowel with your left hand. Make a fist around one corner of it with the rest sticking out the thumb side of your fist.

Now get into a left foot forward fighting stance, feet shoulder width apart, left foot forward enough you have comfortable balance, and have the towel draped over your shoulder.

 

Now throw a straight punch with your left hand and try not to let the dishtowel hit you in the face.

 

After you hit yourself in the face a few times, you'll begin to realize the snap of the punch at the end helps keep the towel moving in the correct directions forward and back. That's the power line of the punch. After a few more smacks in the face of the towel, you'll notice if you move your body weight into the punch snapping the towel becomes much easier. Then after you start becoming proficient at it, you'll see that relaxing everything after the initial extension of the arm up until you have to snap the punch creates a much more powerful and controllable snap, enabling you to punch with the towel repeatedly without getting hit in the face.

 

Once you can use the towel to throw straight punches reliably without hitting yourself in the face, you can knock someone out with your punching power. All other punches are based off the fundamentals (body weight, snapping punches, getting your hands back quickly to minimize open spots in your defense) you learn while getting smacked in the face by the towel. Then you get to work on placement, which is a completely different animal.

 

I've boxed for awhile, trained some people in judo and worked with a few people on their close fighting techniques. Find a school that will teach you the whys of techniques and not just the hows of the techniques and you will be fine.

 

Oh, dont twist your wrist at the end of punches unless you're proper boxing. It was only meant to use the big glove as a cutting tool on the face of your opponent from the leather twisting on their face. With the 4oz MMA gloves people are so big on now it's unnecessary.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-Glenn (Bump)

[BobAsh 582]

I'm 25.

 

Plenty young enough! My advise is this: Find a jujutsu school that also has MMA. Take the jujutsu classes; most schools will let you come to as many classes as you want for the monthly fee. Then when you gain some confidence you can start coming to the MMA classes and fill out your technique.

 

Good luck!

[BobAsh 582]

But to answer your original question...in a fight (as in shooting) I generally just try to aim for center mass of the head. Fancy plans rarely pan out in the heat of the moment.

[read_the_wall 614]

I've been seriously thinking about joining an MMA school that is somewhat near by. I've lost 30LBS in the last 4-5 months, and feel like I'm in much better shape than before. But I'm well aware that I would get my ass handed to me when first starting classes . But hey, I have no problem with that at all.

 

School me.

 

All fighting styles have pros and cons. MMA is great for one on one fighting as is all ground technique styles.

However, you may consider training also in a style that will have you spar with multiple opponents.

You may not want to end up on the ground in real life when there could be someone there to help your assailant.

Sometimes dropping someone with a good leg kick is far more gratifing than a knock out.

 

My school ( Shorin-ryu ) also trained and taught multiple techniques from other styles ranging from boxing to brazilian jujitsu.

At 25 years old, you could still learn to do some nice jump spinning kicks. Whatever you decide, pick a school very close to home so you will feel guilty if you don't go to class. lol.

good luck and have fun.

 

i.m.o.

Edited November 7, 2008 by read_the_wall

[SOPMOD 254]

How exactly is the best way to knock someone out when throwing punches?

 

I've heard that the chin/jaw is the best place to go for, but I've also heard the side of the head. If it is the chin/jaw, what type of throw is better? A straight punch, or some kind of hook?

 

One more question: Does having your jaw clenched or unclenched have any effect when someone is hitting you?

 

 

I've been seriously thinking about joining an MMA school that is somewhat near by. I've lost 30LBS in the last 4-5 months, and feel like I'm in much better shape than before. But I'm well aware that I would get my ass handed to me when first starting classes . But hey, I have no problem with that at all.

 

School me.

 

Ridgehand to the temple or a poke straight at but slightly glancing on the tip of the chin(ie on the point of the chin but at a very slight upward angle with a very slight cross).I've knocked a couple of sparring buddies out by accident with a quick ridgehand but it's a haymaker trajectory and requires a good jab to set it up.

 

Do you fight weak side lead(better for padded gloves) or strong side lead(better for bare knuckles)?

 

 

You do know that in a real fight that you don't have to knock someone out to have a decisive victory right?

 

A rap under the chin on an open mouthed opponent or a three stooges poke in the eyes are usually instant fight stoppers and if they are particularly scary you can go for the windpipe or grab them by the nuts with both hands and hoist them off the ground and dump them on their head if you are a big enough fellow.

 

MMA is a sport just like boxing,judo etc,the real thing is far less glamorous and usually puts someone in the hospital

Edited November 6, 2008 by SOPMOD

[read_the_wall 614]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igTvjbpgZt4

 

sometimes a good block is far better than a knock out

[quinci956 1]

I don't like to throw to the chin. Rarely does the target remain stationary and I don't like splitting my knuckles on teeth. I have my best luck with a solid cross behind the ear.

[Azrial 1,091]

I will have to side with Bob, a good Jujitsu school, that also teaches MMA would be my first choice. Of everything I have studied, it was the most well rounded form, followed/tied by American Kenpo. I started studying in the Philippines when I was a kid of 12. When I returned to the US I was a little disappointed in the amount of time spent on kata over kumitae. Everyone that has spent anytime in the martial arts knows a black belt that has never been in real fight in their life!

 

Do not overlook Boxing. There is no sport or Martial Art in the world that knows as much about throwing a punch as western boxing!

 

At 25, I would assume that you are finished with your schooling. I boxed and wrestled while in Primary & High School as well as college. A great place to get started!

 

The problem with your knock-out question, is there is more then one type of medical trauma to achieve a "knock-out" and more then one technique to achieve it. That is one of the reasons that you have so many and sometimes conflicting answers presented here.

 

A good example is a knock-out achieved by trauma to the carotid artery and carotid sinus. A properly placed strike to this target with the head angeled properly will cause a sharp rise in blood pressure in the artery. The carotid baroceptors will quickly act to protect the brain from hydraulic injury by vasodilation, which is dilation of the artery. Without sufficient blood to perfuse the brain with oxygen the subject will lose consciousness.

 

On the other hand this target may be traumatized to cause the same final effect by compressing the carotid artery in the neck with other several techniques.

 

Additionally this causes stimulation of the the vagus nerve which effects the pacemaker of the heart, resulting in slowing and arrhythmia, potentially causing a form of cardiac arrest in subjects with carotid sinus hypersensitivity.

 

I have found few martial artists that have solid grounding in the medical science behind the techniques that they try to effect. Most rely on what they were taught and simply assume that it works. That is one of the great things about actual full contact, it is truly the school of "hard knocks!"

 

Me, I have the Boy Scout First Aid Merit Badge! Enough Said!!!

[G O B 3,516]

All I know is street fighting, as I grew up on the mean streets of DC and nearby Md. I don't see what anyone sees in a "fair" fight. Getting beaten on hurts.

 

But the best advice I can give is:

KO punches work best when the recipient does not know they are coming!

Your hands are made of small bones, hitting an opponent on a bony part of their body is as likely to break your hand as knock them out or break their bones.

A punch to the throat will disable a larger opponent long enough to kick their knee out and stomp shit out of them.

Looking them straight in the eye - and stomping their toe will get them to blink long enough to punch their lights out. Spitting in their eye works too.

A rock in your hand will make a dent in the hardest head.

Keep your left in their face.

If it ain't going good - RUN!

[Twostroke 0]

I say go for a Knee or elbow to the face for a knock out!

 

But seriously if you go into a fight looking to knock some one out and swinging for the fences, you may knock em out but chances are you will get your butt handed to you!

 

I have trained in MMA for about 6 months now, I am no expert but I spent alot of time researching schools and techniques before joining a camp.

 

The school I train at is top notch and has several Pro and ameture fighters that compete on a regular basis.

 

Every one learns basics of BJJ before doing any Stand up (full contact sparring), This is good becuase they see how you react to training full speed on the ground, It lets the instructors see if you get a temper or have ego issues.( there is no room for either in an MMA gym.)

 

My recomendation would be to do your research talk with people that train at a gym, try it out for a while. Ask Lots of questions about their training and the mentality behind it.

 

And get your conditiong up as much as you can before you start sparring, Wind sprints work great to build cardio endurance(better than long distance running)

 

One last thing, you can count on getting injured! not if When! it will happen! Ask me how I know....

 

I have seen quite a few people get ko'd and a collorbone get shattered, broken toes and fingers too!

 

It is fun though!

[Twostroke 0]

Quote Azrial

"Do not overlook Boxing. There is no sport or Martial Art in the world that knows as much about throwing a punch as western boxing!

 

At 25, I would assume that you are finished with your schooling. I boxed and wrestled while in Primary & High School as well as college. A great place to get started!"

 

 

I just wanted to add, this is sound advice as many of the top UFC and WEC fighters have been College wrestlers or have boxed at a high level before competing in MMA. I have also found this to be true at my own Gym.

 

This is important to you if you are having trouble finding a GOOD MMA gym. Alot of "McDojo's" have popped up in the last few years due to the increase in popularity of MMA.

 

It can open some optoins to get started.

[patriot 7,197]

I'll only say this:

 

It's easier to kill someone than knock him out. BE CAREFUL! An accident will change more than your two lives....forever.

Is it worth it to fight with someone you don't need to fight?

[Twostroke 0]

I'll only say this:

 

It's easier to kill someone than knock him out. BE CAREFUL! An accident will change more than your two lives....forever.

Is it worth it to fight with someone you don't need to fight?

 

 

This is very true regarding street fights and even can apply to an Octagon fight, but I don't think "training" (meaning sparring with full protective gear) would lead to death or even as many injuries as there are associated with tackle football.

 

One of the major things I learned the first week of MMA is to never underestimate some one, I saw guys that are fighting in the 155lb class that are animals and could destroy a much larger opponent in a street fight.

 

If I had'nt seen them train I would have assumed "I could take em" and I would have been very wrong!!

 

I am in better shape, and a better fighter than I was a year ago and now I am way more hesitant to get in a fight compared to a year ago, unless I absolutely have to and if it comes to that my life would have to be in danger and I would not be using my fists.

 

Just my .02

Edited November 7, 2008 by Twostroke

[ryancrowder 17]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igTvjbpgZt4

 

sometimes a good block is far better than a knock out

 

 

That was Fucking GROSS.........

[Ballistician 1]

read the wall, do you know anything about ivan salaverry's mma school over here in WA? Might join to learn and for fun, not to compete or train by any means. I honestly have no interest in that part.

 

Twostroke the 155 and 145ers scare the hell out of me. Those fuckers are 5-13lbs lighter than me and twice my size. I'm 10% body fat! Genetics plays it's role even in MMA.

[read_the_wall 614]

read the wall, do you know anything about ivan salaverry's mma school over here in WA? Might join to learn and for fun, not to compete or train by any means. I honestly have no interest in that part.

 

No, sorry, I'm up north of Seattle. Plenty of schools around. Do a little research and go watch a few classes

before you commit to a program. Be sure you pick a school that is what you want. I myself preferred to have

some weapons mixed in. imo

 

come on ryan, that is funny stuff

Edited November 7, 2008 by read_the_wall

[mstranglr 9]

Mike, I have to disagree. I have been in Muay Thai for 8 years, and trust me, there are 10 times more injuries in that than MMA - I see busted up hands and messed up shins constantly. I spend about 5 hours a week on the heavy bag, and that is much more damaging on the hands than hitting a person! MMA training is quite safe; I work out at a local MMA club sometimes and these guys dedicate 80% of their time to technical application. The MMA clubs I have seen do very little full contact stand-up sparing - mostly conditioning, technique refinement, and full power grappling. Most MMA club members don't even compete, they are just working folks doing it for fun and fitness.

 

I also grew up taking Kenpo Karate. Most Karate students get hurt because they are out of shape and not conditioned properly to absorb punishment (sad but true). MMA guys are in top condition, therefore are harder to injure.

 

To the op, the chin is the sweet spot for a punch - responsible for most all punch knock-outs. Thats why you always tuck your chin down into your chest/shoulder and keep the hands up. Its almost impossible for a beginner to believe, but it can take years to learn to throw a punch properly (body mechanics, grip, timing, distance, speed, form, power, extension).

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Damn! Lots to read! Thanks for all the info and advice.

 

I'll try to clear some things up on why I asked this question..........This question came about after showing my girl a vid on YouTube where a 100ish LB girl lays out a big dude, with a hook. He tries to get up, and stumbles. So she had asked me how to knock someone out. Not in a "I want to go knock someone out for fun" kind of way, it was a "How can I do what that girl did, if I ever needed to, for defense purposes" kind of question. I said if that there was no way to just get away, to just kick them as hard as you can in the balls, and he will most likely go down, at least enough for you to RUUUN!

 

But then I got to thinking if there was a certain technique for knockouts, which made me start this thread.

 

 

 

Now onto joining an MMA school..............I've been watching MMA for 5 years or so, and have always had an interest in doing it for fun. I don't ever plan on making big money fighting for the UFC/WEC?/etc, but it seems like it would be fun, on top of all the positives that would come with it (get in better shape, good hobby, stress reliever).

 

I have no unrealistic dreams of just going out, and knocking someone out in a fight, organized or in the street. I've been "humbled" in the past, and have grown out of the "WTF are you looking at..............Lets FIGHT!!!!!!" stage of my life . I'm well aware that nothing is guaranteed in a fight. I make no mistake of thinking I can whoop everyone's ass (after watching MMA for awhile, I realized that some great fighters look like guys that I would have said "I can take that guy out in a second!" back in highschool. Spencer Fisher comes to mind. He doesn't really look like he could destroy you within 30 seconds, but yet, he would.)

 

 

As far as the school that is near me, it appears to be the only one within a reasonable distance. I actually saw a commercial for it during some UFC shows last year. Joe Lauzon, who is in the UFC and was on "The Ultimate Fighter" was doing the promo for them. Tamdan McCrory and Erik Charles are 2 of the instructors, and apparently are in the UFC (Erik was on "The Ultimate Fighter" too). Which I know doesn't necessarily mean anything, but the place seems legit from my reading.

 

The styles they teach are Western Boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling and Tai Kai Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Unfortunately, I don't have any background in any fighting styles (besides Puerto Rican Judo ), so I will be going in with a handicap it seems, if I decide to join. But I assume not everyone who trains there has a background in something.

 

I don't really see any negatives in joining and training, being that I'm going in with the mind-set that it is for fun and to learn something new, not with a plan to "make it big" in the fighting circuit.

 

 

 

Thanks for all the info guys, it's much appreciated.

[BigBump 1]

A good read on the subject is Championship fighting by Jack Dempsey. Check it out. If you want to learn how to throw knockout punches, this book will get you started.

[mstranglr 9]

22 shooter wrote: "This question came about after showing my girl a vid on YouTube where a 100ish LB girl lays out a big dude, with a hook. He tries to get up, and stumbles. So she had asked me how to knock someone out. Not in a "I want to go knock someone out for fun" kind of way, it was a "How can I do what that girl did, if I ever needed to, for defense purposes"

 

When I first left Karate and started Muay Thai, I was amazed at how bad ass some of the ladies were. I would kick the bag and it would go "thud" - They would kick the bag and it would go "CRACK". Trust me on this one, unlike most martial arts, a female kickboxer can readily kick ass on your average guy - and take a punch from them.