Saiga 12 failing to cycle & and eject shells

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

LOL @ "Vodka Specials"

[cellsworth 21]

If your gun is cycling anything in 2 3/4 it probably has more than just the two ports shown. Sometimes the only way to find them is to ,feel for them with a small hook, towards the forward edge of the gas block.

 

I'm trying to work out some warranty contract work with RAAC, I'll post here if we get it worked out. Customers will then be able to ship their problem "Children" (guns only) directly to me for work and I will ship them directly back to the customer.

 

By the way I'm shooting all the "Specials" and have pulled any of the two port guns back......naturally this has not helped production quanities, but .....I'm putting out a good solid final product................VK.

 

Thanks VanKiller, I'll check for additional ports. I hope you are able to do warranty contract work with RAAC, that would make it easier for people experiencing issues with their guns.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

If your gun is cycling anything in 2 3/4 it probably has more than just the two ports shown. Sometimes the only way to find them is to ,feel for them with a small hook, towards the forward edge of the gas block.

 

I'm trying to work out some warranty contract work with RAAC, I'll post here if we get it worked out. Customers will then be able to ship their problem "Children" (guns only) directly to me for work and I will ship them directly back to the customer.

 

By the way I'm shooting all the "Specials" and have pulled any of the two port guns back......naturally this has not helped production quanities, but .....I'm putting out a good solid final product................VK.

 

 

Reading a statement like this one just confirms to me that not only was buying one of your No-bama specials a great bargain, but a wise choice too!!! Thanks for going the extra mile to insure us first time Saiga owners get a product we will be proud to own!

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

The two gas ports that my gun has are not obstructed in any way. But there is only two of them. I gave the gun a good cleaning and covered everything in gun oil. I may try to shoot it again but I still think the result will be the same with only two gas ports.

[VanKiller 322]

The "Two Port" guns are effectively 3 inch only......They will function with 3 inch loads, if you really want to run a mag, well the three I have come up with so far do........but it will get expensive feeding that thing in a hurry.......One way or another RAAC will fix it, or replace it, I'm sure.......and Clyde is aware that some guns went out with just the two gas port holes...............VK

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

The "Two Port" guns are effectively 3 inch only......They will function with 3 inch loads, if you really want to run a mag, well the three I have come up with so far do........but it will get expensive feeding that thing in a hurry.......One way or another RAAC will fix it, or replace it, I'm sure.......and Clyde is aware that some guns went out with just the two gas port holes...............VK

 

Yea. And if its designed to shoot up to 3" shells, it should. They need to make these to higher standards. I got an email back from RAAC and they said to ship the gun back and they would send a replacement. And Clyde is the guy that emailed me back today and said, "Yours is the first to have this problem that we have been made aware of."

[corbin 621]

Ditto on what JPanzer said.

 

The No-bama special will be my first S-12 and it's great to know that it'll be test fired by someone familiar with Saigas to make sure everything is functioning correctly. I don't know if I'll have it by Christmas or not, but I'm really looking forward to joining the "Saiga Community".

 

Corry, Hopefully this issue can be resolved quickly for you. From what I understand, it's a pretty straight forward fix.

 

 

 

Corbin

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

Ditto on what JPanzer said.

 

The No-bama special will be my first S-12 and it's great to know that it'll be test fired by someone familiar with Saigas to make sure everything is functioning correctly. I don't know if I'll have it by Christmas or not, but I'm really looking forward to joining the "Saiga Community".

 

Corry, Hopefully this issue can be resolved quickly for you. From what I understand, it's a pretty straight forward fix.

 

 

 

Corbin

 

Thanks. I actually shipped out the gun yesterday to RAAC. They are going to send me a brand new gun. They said they will check to make sure it has the correct number of gas ports. I think this is a better solution than taking the risk of screwing something up by taking the gas assembly apart myself. And I shouldn't have to. I'll update you guys on how the new gun works for me when it arrives(Hopefully by new years).

[oltmann 1]

I have one of these two port guns. Just picked up this week, haven't even shot it yet.

 

I just started on the process of fixing it. Drifted the 3 pins out(one on trunion, two on gas block) and pressed the gas block off the barrel.

 

Hopefully this afternoon or tomorrow I will drill two more holes and press it back together. Does anyone have any tips on either of those steps?

 

I'm not going to be able to debur the inside of the barrel very well, guess I'll just have to run some steel shot through it.

 

The gas block and tube assembly came off as one piece, when I press it back together, will I be able to put them back on as one piece?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Dutter 0]

I posted a question over on the Saiga 20 board but have not received a response. I am having the same problem with a new 20 gauge. Do these have similar break-in / gas port issues ????

 

jd

[Bvamp 604]

Dutter - there are actually some other, unrelated issues to increasing saiga20 reliability and functionality. They load payloads and powder changes in europe much heavier than we do here in the states, and as such, your gun being a 20 gauge, may require a "low power upgrade" . CGW does indeed offer this professional gunsmithing service. It runs about 100 bucks on the saiga-20.

 

 

I WOULD suggest that you run the heaviest shells for 3" 20 gauge chambers down your gun before considering this option.

 

I will also state that some of the saiga20's are real "problem childs" and you might require this option in the end.

[Dutter 0]

Dutter - there are actually some other, unrelated issues to increasing saiga20 reliability and functionality. They load payloads and powder changes in europe much heavier than we do here in the states, and as such, your gun being a 20 gauge, may require a "low power upgrade" . CGW does indeed offer this professional gunsmithing service. It runs about 100 bucks on the saiga-20.

 

 

I WOULD suggest that you run the heaviest shells for 3" 20 gauge chambers down your gun before considering this option.

 

I will also state that some of the saiga20's are real "problem childs" and you might require this option in the end.

 

Thanks.....I checked my ports and they are all there and are clear. When running heavy 3 " shells for the break-in, should the gas adjustment be on #1 instead of #2 ?

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

Dutter - there are actually some other, unrelated issues to increasing saiga20 reliability and functionality. They load payloads and powder changes in europe much heavier than we do here in the states, and as such, your gun being a 20 gauge, may require a "low power upgrade" . CGW does indeed offer this professional gunsmithing service. It runs about 100 bucks on the saiga-20.

 

 

I WOULD suggest that you run the heaviest shells for 3" 20 gauge chambers down your gun before considering this option.

 

I will also state that some of the saiga20's are real "problem childs" and you might require this option in the end.

 

Thanks.....I checked my ports and they are all there and are clear. When running heavy 3 " shells for the break-in, should the gas adjustment be on #1 instead of #2 ?

 

Try it on gas setting 1. If it jams with setting 1, go to 2. Continue using 2 until it cycles shells, then the break-in period is over.

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

So I shipped my gun last Friday and tracked it yesterday. UPS said they attempted the delivery. Does anyone know when RAAC reopens? UPS makes 3 attempts at delivery (2 so far) until the person receiving it (RAAC) has to go to UPS and pick it up. Do they come back Fri. or Saturday or Monday? I believe UPS is closed on Dec. 26th. I called RAAC and the machine picked up, but there is no info on their hours.

[corynewman 0]

Corry,

 

I am having the same problem with my new S12. Did you correct the problem? If so, what did you do?

 

Cory Newman

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

Corry,

 

I am having the same problem with my new S12. Did you correct the problem? If so, what did you do?

 

Cory Newman

 

I contacted RAAC by way of email explaining the problem. They told me to ship the gun to them and they would send a replacement. They gave me a code to give UPS when I shipped it so shipping would be free both ways. I shipped it Dec. 19th and they failed to tell me that they would be closed the entire week that followed for Christmas. So now they might be closed for New Years too. Who know when I will get the damn thing. For now on they should check each gun before leaving Izhmash.

[lobstah 0]

Is your S/N around H08430xxx

 

My S12 has a SN starting with that... So is that a factory screwup?

I went shooting with it yesterday, and it cycles 00 Rem just fine, same for #5 Rem shot, but I got FTE on every other shell when trying to shoot #8 Rem.

And the gas ports look just like in the picture that you posted. - two, side by side, angled in the front of the port.

Should i think about sending it back to RAAC as well?

[Bounce12 407]

Is your S/N around H08430xxx

 

My S12 has a SN starting with that... So is that a factory screwup?

I went shooting with it yesterday, and it cycles 00 Rem just fine, same for #5 Rem shot, but I got FTE on every other shell when trying to shoot #8 Rem.

And the gas ports look just like in the picture that you posted. - two, side by side, angled in the front of the port.

Should i think about sending it back to RAAC as well?

 

 

My new Saiga is doing this EXACT same thing. My serial number is 08431xxx.

 

I have two holes as well.

 

I'd rather not waste time sending this thing in if I don't have to, but I haven't tried to get the barrel off yet.

 

Has anyone had trouble? I don't have a press.

[Bounce12 407]

Corry,

 

I am having the same problem with my new S12. Did you correct the problem? If so, what did you do?

 

Cory Newman

 

I contacted RAAC by way of email explaining the problem. They told me to ship the gun to them and they would send a replacement. They gave me a code to give UPS when I shipped it so shipping would be free both ways. I shipped it Dec. 19th and they failed to tell me that they would be closed the entire week that followed for Christmas. So now they might be closed for New Years too. Who know when I will get the damn thing. For now on they should check each gun before leaving Izhmash.

 

 

Corry, I need to send mine in too. I have the exact same issues you do.

 

Would you please post the e-mail address and the name of the contact?

 

I have to go through the same process - UGH!

 

What a pain in the ass.

[lobstah 0]

Bounce,

 

call Russian American Armory, explain the problem and they are pretty cool and are aware of the issues. They'll give you UPS shipping number and are gonna have you send the gun in for replacement. I'm shipping mine out tomorrow

Good luck

[Bounce12 407]

Bounce,

 

call Russian American Armory, explain the problem and they are pretty cool and are aware of the issues. They'll give you UPS shipping number and are gonna have you send the gun in for replacement. I'm shipping mine out tomorrow

Good luck

 

 

Thanks Lobstah.

 

I assume they have some S-12s that were done correctly in stock.

 

LOL

 

Wouldn't this suck: "Hey, we're sorry about the poor quality control, but it will be spring before we get a new shipment in."

 

If that was the case, I'd probably elect to try to get the mod done myself.

 

I'd appreciate it if everyone with this problem kept us updated. I will do the same.

 

I am going to call them and try to get this thing in the mail today.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Bounce12

[Bounce12 407]

If your gun is cycling anything in 2 3/4 it probably has more than just the two ports shown. Sometimes the only way to find them is to ,feel for them with a small hook, towards the forward edge of the gas block.

 

I'm trying to work out some warranty contract work with RAAC, I'll post here if we get it worked out. Customers will then be able to ship their problem "Children" (guns only) directly to me for work and I will ship them directly back to the customer.

 

By the way I'm shooting all the "Specials" and have pulled any of the two port guns back......naturally this has not helped production quanities, but .....I'm putting out a good solid final product................VK.

 

 

 

Now I know why you go by "VanKiller."

 

LOL

[Bounce12 407]

I called the company today and they said they'll replace the S-12, no problem.

 

So, I am putting it in the mail today.

 

I asked if they had replacements "IN STOCK."

 

The answer is: kinda-sorta, but not "exactly."

 

Evidently, there is a shipment enroute, but they haven't received it yet.

 

They say they are "expecting" it next week.

 

Next "week" is acceptable, next "spring" isn't - I'd just do the mod myself and risk it if I knew it would take a couple of months to get a replacement.

 

I'm going to take them at their word and send this back.

 

So far, so good, I guess.

[oct0gen 0]

Chances are, you got your hand on one of the Vodka Specials. If you pull out the gas regulator and look inside, a normal gun will have 4 gas ports where the hole in the gas block lines up with the barrel. If you look at yours, you probably can't see any gas ports in the barrel at all. If you reach in with a curved dental pick, you will probably find that there are two ports at the extreme front of the gas block, partially blocked, and no others. It will never cycle anything but 3" mags on gas setting #2 like that. The gas block needs to be removed and the front two parts angled back farther, and then two more gas ports drilled behind those.

 

Is your S/N around H08430xxx

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

 

tony,

 

thanks for the info! i recently got a s12 and on the first trip to the range, every 2 3/4 shell was a fte. i remembered this thread and immediately reread it when i got home. sure enough, my s/n is in the range you stated and it is a two hole "vodka special". i cant imagine the amount of time you saved me if i had tried to find the problem myself. the dilemma now is to have it sent back raac or just do it myself. im thinking do it myself since i was planning on doing a tromix diy pistol grip, folding stock and 12"ish sbs conversion. since i would have to open up the holes anyway for the sbs, i may as well just drill them myself. got any advice on drill size/number of ports for an 12" sbs or is it better to start small and work up until its reliable?

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

Okay so here is the deal. I called RAAC on Monday. They said the only guns they have in stock are two hole and three hole guns. I was told the three hole guns work fine with even cheap loads but I would rather wait for a 4 hole gun. So by the end of next week, they are expecting 200-250 guns to come in with 3 and 4 holes. Three holes?!?!? They needs to light a fire under some Russian asses and get 100% of the guns to be 4 holes. They have been designed and produced for a few years with four, so there must be a reason. My luck would be is I get a 3 hole gun and it doesn't work, then I got to send another gun back, wait, then get one that actually works.

 

So your options are:

Get a 3 hole gun with questionable reliability.

Wait for some 4 hole guns to come in next week or the week after etc etc...

Or get your money back.

 

I was the first one to send in a defective gun so in theory I will be the first in line for a 4 hole gun. Best of luck to everyone else!

Edited December 30, 2008 by Corry

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

.......

Edited December 30, 2008 by Corry

[Bounce12 407]

I was the first one to send in a defective gun so in theory I will be the first in line for a 4 hole gun. Best of luck to everyone else!

 

 

If they were unaware that there are TWO HOLE guns out here, how in the world do they know how many three and four hole S-12s are coming in BEFORE they even get them?

 

It doesn't sound like they were even aware of how many holes these things have as they go out the door.

 

Personally, I'd rather wait for the four holer. Some of my 2 3/4 inch shells weren't even close to ejecting. I'd prefer AT LEAST four holes, if not five (depending on hole radius and angle to the piston).

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

I was the first one to send in a defective gun so in theory I will be the first in line for a 4 hole gun. Best of luck to everyone else!

 

 

If they were unaware that there are TWO HOLE guns out here, how in the world do they know how many three and four hole S-12s are coming in BEFORE they even get them?

 

It doesn't sound like they were even aware of how many holes these things have as they go out the door.

 

Personally, I'd rather wait for the four holer. Some of my 2 3/4 inch shells weren't even close to ejecting. I'd prefer AT LEAST four holes, if not five (depending on hole radius and angle to the piston).

 

Exactly. That's why I decided to wait. The guy simply said he was getting some 3 & 4 hole guns in. How does he know? I have no idea.

[grandeyota 0]

I just recieved my S12 a few days ago and have yet to fire it. I tore it down to check it out and saw I have 2 gas ports. I didn't think anything of it until I saw this thread. I looked close and felt around behind the 2 ports with a dental pick and didn't feel any others.

Here is a pic of what I've got:

 

Should I be making a call?

[Bounce12 407]

I just recieved my S12 a few days ago and have yet to fire it. I tore it down to check it out and saw I have 2 gas ports. I didn't think anything of it until I saw this thread. I looked close and felt around behind the 2 ports with a dental pick and didn't feel any others.

Here is a pic of what I've got:

 

Should I be making a call?

 

 

There's a minor difference between yours and mine.

 

My ports are so far forward (or the pressure chamber housing is so far back - toward the bottom of your pic) that they can't even be seen and appear to be partially obstructed under the housing.

 

Your ports appear to be angled back toward the piston (that's a good thing) and they don't appear to be obstructed by the housing. I am not sure that mine are. Mine MIGHT be, but I can't see them.

 

If I were you, I'd shoot some low brass, 2 3/4" skeet shot (weaker rounds). Try it - use the #2 setting. If you shoot 100 rounds and don't get a FTE, you're good.

 

I'd really like to know what results you get.