voonman 133 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Just wondering what the downfall is when you over gas your S12...Isnt it better to be overgassed than undergassed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NSR500 2 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 An over gassed gun will beat itself badly. You may see premature wear and tear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Glockmonger 18 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Really depends on how much. I have seen stock ports on a gun the rear rivets were stretching out. Just for good measure, install a shock buff. And there are many spring combos that can be used also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I've seen them fail to eject because the empty hull didn't have enough time to get out of the way of the returning bolt. Turning the "gasfixr" plug all the way down to setting #1 fixed the problem though. This was with 2.75" 00 Buck and a new two port gun, with an extra port added, and all three drilled out to 5/64" and angled back. However, this gun had also already been throated and polished, all contact surfaces polished, and the forward recoil spring swapped to a lighter one from a 1911. Also had the KA improved tappet or piston and a light hammer spring. All these other measures had already been taken in an attempt to get the "vodka special" to cycle, and it still wouldn't, so the gas port work was done. This resulted in it being slightly over gassed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 The same problem with over gassing your car, it runs too fast, wears out too quickly, and eventually fails. "Under gassed" well there it just will not run correctly, not having enough energy to function. It is simple really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moe Zambeak 53 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 My 3-holer is over gassed and FTF pretty regularly. I installed a Gunfixer gas plug, and like Cobra said, cranked it down all the way and it seems to help tremendously. I could already see signs of wear on the rear trunnion from it running to hard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarPD 6 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Dumb question: If the gun IS overgassed and beats up the trunnion, is there any fix? Or does it require the entire receiver to be replaced? Truth to tell, for all my previous experience with other guns, I don't even know what the trunnion in a Saiga or AK is. AFAIK, no other firearms I'm familiar with have such a thing. P.S. Be delicate with me, I'm a tender young thing that is easily bruised. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) The same problem with over gassing your car, it runs too fast, wears out too quickly, and eventually fails. "Under gassed" well there it just will not run correctly, not having enough energy to function. It is simple really. lol interesting analogy but rich cars don't run too fast. (the term lean is mean points to the fact that a leaner car will run faster until it melts) They wash the oil off the rings which promotes ring and cylinder wear and scoring. That makes the car smoke (burn oil) and dilute the oil with fuel which if you keep driving it will cause spun bearings. An over-gassed S12 will have the bolt carrier smacking into the rear trunnion. Eventually cracking the trunnion, stretching the rivets, and mushrooming the back of the bolt carrier. Forgive me if I'm being ocd. Edited June 13, 2009 by hobbyshooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 What signs to look out for when all of these things are happening..Does anyone have a pic of an over gassed gun with its devastating results? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
775Patriot 0 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 What signs to look out for when all of these things are happening..Does anyone have a pic of an over gassed gun with its devastating results? Cobra has pics. Check out his area in this forum, or I 'm sure he'll point you in the right direction soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tover26 18 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Initially, you get FTEs... great shot, but you can feel that the trigger doesn't engage and you have to chamber a new round, which ejects a perfectly good shell. It's very irritating. My Saiga only has 3 ports and it gets very picky with 3" magnum rounds in this regard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
soundlzrd 0 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I am glad I read this thread, it appears my gun is over gassed as I have the bolt coming forward before the empty shells can get out of the way. And mine is factory 3 hole Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HillBilly2 9 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I am glad I read this thread, it appears my gun is over gassed as I have the bolt coming forward before the empty shells can get out of the way. And mine is factory 3 hole You really can't say that for sure yet, there are a lot of variables involved. What ammo, what gas plug setting, what mag, what does other ammo do, ect. Where is the jam, is the empty stovepiped, or is it jammed up by the new shell? Is this a fte or a ftf? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 My saiga was overgassed bad. Kept having FTF's etc When my gunfixer plug came in, it solved all of my problems. I was ready to say, "fuck it" and sell. Now she's gonna stick around Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I am glad I read this thread, it appears my gun is over gassed as I have the bolt coming forward before the empty shells can get out of the way. And mine is factory 3 hole That could mean undergassed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thisoneis4u 1 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I've seen them fail to eject because the empty hull didn't have enough time to get out of the way of the returning bolt. Turning the "gasfixr" plug all the way down to setting #1 fixed the problem though. This was with 2.75" 00 Buck and a new two port gun, with an extra port added, and all three drilled out to 5/64" and angled back.However, this gun had also already been throated and polished, all contact surfaces polished, and the forward recoil spring swapped to a lighter one from a 1911. Also had the KA improved tappet or piston and a light hammer spring. All these other measures had already been taken in an attempt to get the "vodka special" to cycle, and it still wouldn't, so the gas port work was done. This resulted in it being slightly over gassed. Was that my gun? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Glockmonger 18 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I am glad I read this thread, it appears my gun is over gassed as I have the bolt coming forward before the empty shells can get out of the way. And mine is factory 3 hole You really can't say that for sure yet, there are a lot of variables involved. What ammo, what gas plug setting, what mag, what does other ammo do, ect. Where is the jam, is the empty stovepiped, or is it jammed up by the new shell? Is this a fte or a ftf? Mags do have a lot to do with it also. I have noticed That they should be broke in before customers worry about it. And on my personal mahs I have (after broke in) spraied them with silcone. . . .Seems to help so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Hi My Saiga is a tad overgassed, but the Gunfixer plug took pretty good care of it. With Remington slugs, even the -1 setting ejects them pretty hard (8 to 10 feet). The lightweight Federal bulk pack stuff cycles on setting 2 very well. From the hip or if the butt isn't up against your shoulder, with the really light stuff, I crank it up to setting 3, but setting 2 would probably be OK most of the time. Since mine is overgassed (4 holes), I felt it wouldn't hurt to try a buffer and see if it helps cut down the wear and tear on the thing. I didn't want the harder style buffers most people sell. I believe Blackjack makes a softer one, but since I wanted it to be able to compress to almost nothing, yet still offer some protection......I made my own out of a gel insert. Click on picture for link to thread: I'd say the bolt's movement might be reduced by 1/16" when it's fully compressed. Granted, that's with me pulling it back by hand pretty hard. I imagine the action presses against it with much more force than I do just pulling it. I don't know if my buffer does anything about recoil, but I've got a Limbsaver pad for that anyway. So far, no problems with the buffer. Again though, my gun is overgassed. If it wasn't, I suspect there would be issues. My mags keep up with the bolt just fine too. I shoot MD-20 drums and Surefire 8 rounders. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Glockmonger 18 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I have never seen a stock S12 - over gassed. I personally open them up on mine and on custom builds (not regular builds). For the average shooter on a two port gets .095 depending on the gun. Those are then chamfered also. Some time depending on how much potato juice they drank, when I realign the GB I have been known to also open the block. I have ran everyone's shock buff. I like Buffer technologies the best. My latest personal build is running .104 w/ a standard gas selector and a buffer I got from Joken. I would not suggest going over .100 though. If you think your S12 is UNDER gassed, I would try a KA tappet first, if your GB is true. Then go from there with your needs. FYI, I very seldom have probs with custom builds that is not related to mag issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) I believe my 8in tromix gun is overgassed, I assume it has larger gas ports than it needs to cycle the heavy 3in loads I normaly fire. I already have one of the first run, gun fixer gas plugs but it still cycles too fast. There arent any reliability problems with it but the bolt slams aganst the rear of the reciever. This also makes the guns felt recoil a lot worse. Im thinking about switching to lighter 2 3/4in loads on this gun. My 11in I drilled the four gas ports to .082 angled backwards and there is almost no felt recoil with heavy 2 3/4 or 3in loads. It seems to be the perfect ammount of gas to cycle it. Is there something different about the new gunfixer gas plugs? The only thing that looks different is the front, it has cuts in it like the original gas plug to aid disassembly. Edited June 14, 2009 by mike123456 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.