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unaimed fire/shooting from the hip


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Ok who is good at shooting their saiga 12 from the hip sort of speak, I was just wondering because that is common scenario in my opinion when in a surprise SD situation, I am not saying that careful controlled aimed fire is not better, I am saying that sometimes you just have to let some rounds off fast, does anyone train for this and how accurate are you?

Today I was on a hike and a cougar jumped out of some bushes about 10 yards in front of me, it ran sideways in front of me trying to get away, I fired out of instinct because I am aware of these cats because I am a trapper and with them always a threat and where I trap you either shoot you could get hurt. Once I was clear on what I was seeing I shot and missed cause this cat was fast, at that point aiming was not an option and it was over quick, the brush is heavy and there was no way to track the animal after that nor would I have a reason too.

 

No I am not a reckless redneck so none of that please, I am just asking an honest question, I can think of no other weapon that this would be appropriate than a shotgun and no better one for this type of situation than a saiga 12!

Edited by krusader
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If that cat is staking out your trap line you might want to start carryng in the ready position. stock up and barrel down, just in case it drops from a tree on you next time. And have a big ass knife or a 410 derringer, something to get into the cat if its chewing on your face. Good luck. What state are you in?

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Half the dead things in my freezer I never got a bead on. I just pointed and fired.

The other half stayed still long enough for me to set down the S-12 and shoot them with the .22

 

Possible to hit at 10 yards, but big cats are fast.

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I hope there are no other hikers in your area... :unsure:

 

I'm pretty accurate from the hip with mine FWIW. At ten yds, with a semi, without a choke, you should be able to pepper a pretty big area...and, as was said, a laser does wonders for quick, from the hip, kill shots.

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Ok who is good at shooting their saiga 12 from the hip sort of speak, I was just wondering because that is common scenario in my opinion when in a surprise SD situation, I am not saying that careful controlled aimed fire is not better, I am saying that sometimes you just have to let some rounds off fast, does anyone train for this and how accurate are you?

Today I was on a hike and a cougar jumped out of some bushes about 10 yards in front of me, it ran sideways in front of me trying to get away, I fired out of instinct because I am aware of these cats because I am a trapper and with them always a threat and where I trap you either shoot you could get hurt. Once I was clear on what I was seeing I shot and missed cause this cat was fast, at that point aiming was not an option and it was over quick, the brush is heavy and there was no way to track the animal after that nor would I have a reason too.

 

No I am not a reckless redneck so none of that please, I am just asking an honest question, I can think of no other weapon that this would be appropriate than a shotgun and no better one for this type of situation than a saiga 12!

 

 

I take offence to your term, reckless "Redneck". Do a search on the "Battle of Blair Mountain" to know what you are refering to. That is the white version of nigger. And untill "ANY of you uneducated PC knowitall's" understand what a "Redneck" is? Stop insulting people you dont have a clue what they stand for/Did for my people And you!

 

 

Here is an example.........To quote "YOU"?

 

 

"Today I was on a hike and a cougar jumped out of some bushes about 10 yards in front of me, it ran sideways in front of me trying to get away, I fired out of instinct because I am aware of these cats because I am a trapper and with them always a threat and where I trap you either shoot you could get hurt."

 

Really? A trapper? And blundered upon a Cougar? Without smelling it? They "DO" have a scent? no sign's? Track's? And to top the story off, the cougar was trying to get "away"when you shot?

 

I choose to believe a "domestic" cat junped out in front of you, you SHIT your breeches, fell on your ass, and your gun ACCIDENTALY discharged.

 

 

As a "Tracker", I call BS.

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In that sort of situation, a laser helps immensely, but the right type is important. A static laser won't show up very well, so make sure you get one that pulses. Not only does it save power, it is easier for the eye to track because the pulsation is interpreted by your brain as movement.

 

Like anything, practice is key. Find a place where you can shoot from the hip, and practice until you are proficient at quickly acquiring your target and firing, with or without a laser, whether you're shooting from the hip or shoulder. Hell, practice it all; you never know how you'll be carrying when a situation arises. Maybe you heard or smelled the animal before it presented itself, and you had time to shoulder the weapon. You never know.

 

Regardless, good luck, keep safe.

Edited by Shandlanos
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Sorry, I responded to an identical thread before seeing this one.........

 

 

I've practiced what could be called "unmounted" shooting before, though that's not exactly the same as hip shooting. It's similar though. I may not be using the most common terms, but they're what I was taught, so please bear with me. To call hip shooting "unaimed" might be misleading however. You still aim, but you don't use the sights, unless you've got a laser or something.

 

As you mentioned, shouldered (or mounted) fire is almost always going to be more accurate than unshouldered. Shooting with the weapon down at hip level will usually make the rounds hit high. While I don't generally prefer this position, I suppose it can't hurt to know how your weapon will work if you do choose to employ it. The benefit of being able to hit a target from whatever position your weapon is in would definitely be worth having. If your shotgun is down in a position typically called "assault carry" (or patrol carry), and you fired it, that would basically be shooting "from the hip".

 

I would only want to employ this at close quarters when I either didn't have time to bring the weapon up to a shouldered position, or if putting the weapon closer to the target meant that they'd likely be able to grab the barrel. At this extremely "up close and personal" range, speed is probably more important, so long as you still get a center mass hit. If you're being charged by a machette weilding maniac from close range, your immediate priority is to stop the violent behavior. If that means you gotta fire from a less than ideal position, you do what you have to do. Yeah, it would be better to have him charging uphill, while wearing roller skates and a blindfold, with one arm tied behind his back......but that's not going to happen. :rolleyes:

 

A slight modification to the hip shooting position might benefit you, if you have the time to assume it: by bringing the buttstock up under the armpit and clamping the upper arm down onto it, you have stabilized the weapon moreso than having it just recoil against your hand(s). It also makes weapon retention easier should someone grab the barrel. I've heard this position called the "assault fire" position, not to be confused with the lower "assault carry" position, mentioned earlier.

 

So long as you use this position for extremely close targets, and employ well aimed shots when range allows, I think you'd do well. Remember though, at close range, you're not going to have the shot spread like you will at 15 yards. Even with an SBS. You'll still have to AIM.

 

If you have a folding stock, and you wish to fire the weapon without the stock extended, the technique can remain the same, except you're just holding your upper arm against your side (obviously without the stock being sandwiched). While I personally don't like firing my Saiga with the stock folded (given a choice), I understand that you might have to fire it before you had the opportunity to extend the stock. This would probably be a very rare instance, but even so, I suppose you should know how your weapon handles in this scenario.

 

A non-stocked weapon with a sling (particularly a single point sling) can be put into a pretty solid shooting position by pushing the weapon forward towards the target and allowing the sling to pull tight. I prefer the HK style of holding the weapon towards the center of my chest, but that's just me. This firing method should work equally as well with an AOW shotty (no stock) or a shotty with the stock folded.

 

I am by no means an expert here. There are several other forum members that shoot FAR more often than I do. They may not agree with my opinions, and that's cool. I'm open to hearing what others think. As Mr. Suarez says, "Anyone too proud to be taught is too arrogant to win a fight."

 

 

Peace!

 

 

 

Corbin

Edited by Corbin
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I'd like to get good at this. Is there a term for natural line of sight? I find, with paintball and airsoft, that often the harder I try to aim the more likely I am to miss. But if you just point and shoot naturally, aim is sometimes better. If any of you golf, you've probably seen people miss 2 ft putts who then backtap it without even thinking right into the hole.

 

Is shooting from the hip like this? My range won't let you do this stuff, but there's a great video of a little 10 year old on You Tube bump firing an S12 with a 20 shell drum. He's holding it under his arm. It's funny to watch.

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Ok who is good at shooting their saiga 12 from the hip sort of speak, I was just wondering because that is common scenario in my opinion when in a surprise SD situation, I am not saying that careful controlled aimed fire is not better, I am saying that sometimes you just have to let some rounds off fast, does anyone train for this and how accurate are you?

Today I was on a hike and a cougar jumped out of some bushes about 10 yards in front of me, it ran sideways in front of me trying to get away, I fired out of instinct because I am aware of these cats because I am a trapper and with them always a threat and where I trap you either shoot you could get hurt. Once I was clear on what I was seeing I shot and missed cause this cat was fast, at that point aiming was not an option and it was over quick, the brush is heavy and there was no way to track the animal after that nor would I have a reason too.

 

No I am not a reckless redneck so none of that please, I am just asking an honest question, I can think of no other weapon that this would be appropriate than a shotgun and no better one for this type of situation than a saiga 12!

 

 

I take offence to your term, reckless "Redneck". Do a search on the "Battle of Blair Mountain" to know what you are refering to. That is the white version of nigger. And untill "ANY of you uneducated PC knowitall's" understand what a "Redneck" is? Stop insulting people you dont have a clue what they stand for/Did for my people And you!

 

 

Here is an example.........To quote "YOU"?

 

 

"Today I was on a hike and a cougar jumped out of some bushes about 10 yards in front of me, it ran sideways in front of me trying to get away, I fired out of instinct because I am aware of these cats because I am a trapper and with them always a threat and where I trap you either shoot you could get hurt."

 

Really? A trapper? And blundered upon a Cougar? Without smelling it? They "DO" have a scent? no sign's? Track's? And to top the story off, the cougar was trying to get "away"when you shot?

 

I choose to believe a "domestic" cat junped out in front of you, you SHIT your breeches, fell on your ass, and your gun ACCIDENTALY discharged.

 

 

As a "Tracker", I call BS.

 

 

I hear ya Bro on the "Red-Neck" thing.... I usually just keep my mouth shut unless it's directed at me, then it usually ends up with some prick on their ass. Over the years, throughout the military and an even now I hear the derogatory term used out of ignorance. And About the Battle of Blair MTN..... I'd say well over 95 percent on here never heard of the of it or what took place there....... OR how it has impacted history. Good men took a stand and died for a cause there. Too bad it was decided not to be protected as a historical site and now will go the way of a strip-job or the likes.

 

Also, Yea, shooting from the hip with a S-12 is good practice..... In the winter, when I'm trying to kick rabbits up from the brush it's something you have to be good at.......not to come home empty handed.

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I'm familiar with the Battle of Blair Mountain, (the 1920's being the actual jumpstart of the Civil Rights Movement in the US, which many people seem to forget is about Rights, and not about Race) but if you are are using that as an example of why the term "redneck" is offensive or derogatory, I have to say, I don't get it. What makes it offensive, in that context or any other? The moniker made sense then, (though Im not sure that is the actual etymological origin of the word) and if someone wants to compare you to either a group of laborers who fought for equal rights in dangerous conditions, or someone who actually works for a living, exactly what is the shame in that?

 

Am i missing something? Then again, I dont think of words as much of a threat or offense, anyways, and hardly qualify as a PC, in most crowds, so maybe the point is just lost on me.

 

As far as the OP's question, i think the most important part of practicing shooting from the hip is that you are still looking at your target, too many people look at the gun to try and figure out where it is pointed, and almost always miss. Also, it can help to point your thumbs forward and visualize them both pointed at the target. most people can point directly at something without much effort, or a sight picture. if both hands are pointed at the target, so is the gun.

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Ok who is good at shooting their saiga 12 from the hip sort of speak, I was just wondering because that is common scenario in my opinion when in a surprise SD situation, I am not saying that careful controlled aimed fire is not better, I am saying that sometimes you just have to let some rounds off fast, does anyone train for this and how accurate are you?

Today I was on a hike and a cougar jumped out of some bushes about 10 yards in front of me, it ran sideways in front of me trying to get away, I fired out of instinct because I am aware of these cats because I am a trapper and with them always a threat and where I trap you either shoot you could get hurt. Once I was clear on what I was seeing I shot and missed cause this cat was fast, at that point aiming was not an option and it was over quick, the brush is heavy and there was no way to track the animal after that nor would I have a reason too.

 

No I am not a reckless redneck so none of that please, I am just asking an honest question, I can think of no other weapon that this would be appropriate than a shotgun and no better one for this type of situation than a saiga 12!

 

 

I take offence to your term, reckless "Redneck". Do a search on the "Battle of Blair Mountain" to know what you are refering to. That is the white version of nigger. And untill "ANY of you uneducated PC knowitall's" understand what a "Redneck" is? Stop insulting people you dont have a clue what they stand for/Did for my people And you!

 

 

Here is an example.........To quote "YOU"?

 

 

"Today I was on a hike and a cougar jumped out of some bushes about 10 yards in front of me, it ran sideways in front of me trying to get away, I fired out of instinct because I am aware of these cats because I am a trapper and with them always a threat and where I trap you either shoot you could get hurt."

 

Really? A trapper? And blundered upon a Cougar? Without smelling it? They "DO" have a scent? no sign's? Track's? And to top the story off, the cougar was trying to get "away"when you shot?

 

I choose to believe a "domestic" cat junped out in front of you, you SHIT your breeches, fell on your ass, and your gun ACCIDENTALY discharged.

 

 

As a "Tracker", I call BS.

 

 

Sly you sound like a bitter little man, please slow down, I use the term redneck so people don't jump on me for being a country boy, I can't help it nor do I care to convince you that I am a trapper, and a darn good one too :)

I have fur in the shed right now, and you say your a tracker, I don't know what you track and have no way to prove that you go around and track things, but if you say so, I choose to believe it, may I ask to what end do you track? why?

I meant no offense to you or anyone who considers them self a red neck. So please accept my apology. I was using the term as I knew it not as you know it.

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I'm familiar with the Battle of Blair Mountain, (the 1920's being the actual jumpstart of the Civil Rights Movement in the US, which many people seem to forget is about Rights, and not about Race) but if you are are using that as an example of why the term "redneck" is offensive or derogatory, I have to say, I don't get it. What makes it offensive, in that context or any other? The moniker made sense then, (though Im not sure that is the actual etymological origin of the word) and if someone wants to compare you to either a group of laborers who fought for equal rights in dangerous conditions, or someone who actually works for a living, exactly what is the shame in that?

 

Am i missing something? Then again, I dont think of words as much of a threat or offense, anyways, and hardly qualify as a PC, in most crowds, so maybe the point is just lost on me.

 

As far as the OP's question, i think the most important part of practicing shooting from the hip is that you are still looking at your target, too many people look at the gun to try and figure out where it is pointed, and almost always miss. Also, it can help to point your thumbs forward and visualize them both pointed at the target. most people can point directly at something without much effort, or a sight picture. if both hands are pointed at the target, so is the gun.

Thanks for your input reverend, sly appears to be showing off, I think he should get his attention from his family and not a forum but thats just me! And cobra was gentle with me but I don't know about what, sometimes it seems you run into angry folks around here.

Edited by krusader
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Sly you sound like a bitter little man, please slow down, I use the term redneck so people don't jump on me for being a country boy, I can't help it nor do I care to convince you that I am a trapper, and a darn good one too :)

I have fur in the shed right now, and you say your a tracker, I don't know what you track and have no way to prove that you go around and track things, but if you say so, I choose to believe it, may I ask to what end do you track? why?

I meant no offense to you or anyone who considers them self a red neck. So please accept my apology. I was using the term as I knew it not as you know it.

 

 

Which appology should I accept?

 

The "redneck" remark? Or the "bitter little man" remark?

 

Or the kikker?

 

"sly appears to be showing off, I think he should get his attention from his family and not a forum but thats just me!"

 

Get over your Anal/cranial inversion. Stop being insulting and derogitory, Then we might have a reasonable debate. Get it? I had realtive's that wore the red, so just show some respect.

 

 

And just for good measure, I have killed rabbit's and bird's from the hip. About 25% (guessing) succesfull hit's. I don't get surpised very often. I do the surprising!

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Since a few friend have full autos they let me shoot I get a lot of practice shooting from the hip and am used to it.

 

I have yet to test out my newly acquired Saiga but with a friend's Saiga I did pretty well shooting from the hip (which saves my shoulder from extra bruising ;) )

 

I don't care much for hip shooting, not even with my full autos.

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Since a few friend have full autos they let me shoot I get a lot of practice shooting from the hip and am used to it.

 

I have yet to test out my newly acquired Saiga but with a friend's Saiga I did pretty well shooting from the hip (which saves my shoulder from extra bruising ;) )

 

I don't care much for hip shooting, not even with my full autos.

 

agreed, i can do it pretty well but i reserve it for wowing friends at the gun pit. if you dont have the 1/2 sec it takes to shoulder your weapon your dead anyway in my OP. thats why NO special ops teams train in hip fire

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I'm familiar with the Battle of Blair Mountain, (the 1920's being the actual jumpstart of the Civil Rights Movement in the US, which many people seem to forget is about Rights, and not about Race) but if you are are using that as an example of why the term "redneck" is offensive or derogatory, I have to say, I don't get it. What makes it offensive, in that context or any other? The moniker made sense then, (though Im not sure that is the actual etymological origin of the word) and if someone wants to compare you to either a group of laborers who fought for equal rights in dangerous conditions, or someone who actually works for a living, exactly what is the shame in that?

 

Am i missing something? Then again, I dont think of words as much of a threat or offense, anyways, and hardly qualify as a PC, in most crowds, so maybe the point is just lost on me.

 

As far as the OP's question, i think the most important part of practicing shooting from the hip is that you are still looking at your target, too many people look at the gun to try and figure out where it is pointed, and almost always miss. Also, it can help to point your thumbs forward and visualize them both pointed at the target. most people can point directly at something without much effort, or a sight picture. if both hands are pointed at the target, so is the gun.

 

I'm in the same boat as you, I am "aware" of the Battle and have no knowledge of how that applies to the term Redneck. I am being earnest here and have always wondered where the term Redneck truly originated from and how it is derogatory.

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My only input on this is that "hip Shooting" is not practiced by the people I've trained with. Shoulder you're weapon and fire a aimed shot. The difference in time saved does not make up for the accuracy lost.

 

Fast is fine, accurate is final.

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I'm familiar with the Battle of Blair Mountain, (the 1920's being the actual jumpstart of the Civil Rights Movement in the US, which many people seem to forget is about Rights, and not about Race) but if you are are using that as an example of why the term "redneck" is offensive or derogatory, I have to say, I don't get it. What makes it offensive, in that context or any other? The moniker made sense then, (though Im not sure that is the actual etymological origin of the word) and if someone wants to compare you to either a group of laborers who fought for equal rights in dangerous conditions, or someone who actually works for a living, exactly what is the shame in that?

 

Am i missing something? Then again, I dont think of words as much of a threat or offense, anyways, and hardly qualify as a PC, in most crowds, so maybe the point is just lost on me.

 

As far as the OP's question, i think the most important part of practicing shooting from the hip is that you are still looking at your target, too many people look at the gun to try and figure out where it is pointed, and almost always miss. Also, it can help to point your thumbs forward and visualize them both pointed at the target. most people can point directly at something without much effort, or a sight picture. if both hands are pointed at the target, so is the gun.

 

I'm in the same boat as you, I am "aware" of the Battle and have no knowledge of how that applies to the term Redneck. I am being earnest here and have always wondered where the term Redneck truly originated from and how it is derogatory.

 

Redneck originated in both Scotland and the US exactly as it sounds, as a term for white field workers, usually the lower class, as they had sunburned necks from working in the sun. Pretty simple, it seems. It however didn't really take hold in the common vernacular until after popular accounts of the situation surrounding blair mountain, when the workers would wear coloured bandannas to identify their political beliefs. Those with red bandannas were stating that they wanted to organize and form a union, and when it came down to violence, it also who identified was a legitimate target. Those Unionizers were commonly called Rednecks, because of the bandanna, and there are some that say that is the origin of the popular usage of the term in the US, but that really isn't likely, as it was in limited usage previously, and as its a term mostly used for referring to people who work in the sun (or that "type" of socio-economic class) and not used to refer to Socialists or Labor Organizers, and the coincident timing in usage is likely unrelated. Its basicly the preindustrial more agrarian version of "Blue Collar" which is a pretty proud term in most of America. Either way, i think its considered derogatory because people have swallowed the idea of "politically correct" in preparation for introducing a full blown Newspeak. Words arent offensive, its a silly idea, its ideas that are, and if you are careful, you can insult someone just as thoroughly with "safe" words as you can with any others.

 

Like i said, a label that was once used to describe people who fought for labor rights, and is still used to describe people who actually work for a living, doesnt sound like much of an insult to me.

 

Pantywaist Mouse-Jockey sounds a little more stinging, if you ask me. heh.

Edited by ReverendFranz
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I'm familiar with the Battle of Blair Mountain, (the 1920's being the actual jumpstart of the Civil Rights Movement in the US, which many people seem to forget is about Rights, and not about Race) but if you are are using that as an example of why the term "redneck" is offensive or derogatory, I have to say, I don't get it. What makes it offensive, in that context or any other? The moniker made sense then, (though Im not sure that is the actual etymological origin of the word) and if someone wants to compare you to either a group of laborers who fought for equal rights in dangerous conditions, or someone who actually works for a living, exactly what is the shame in that?

 

Am i missing something? Then again, I dont think of words as much of a threat or offense, anyways, and hardly qualify as a PC, in most crowds, so maybe the point is just lost on me.

 

As far as the OP's question, i think the most important part of practicing shooting from the hip is that you are still looking at your target, too many people look at the gun to try and figure out where it is pointed, and almost always miss. Also, it can help to point your thumbs forward and visualize them both pointed at the target. most people can point directly at something without much effort, or a sight picture. if both hands are pointed at the target, so is the gun.

 

I'm in the same boat as you, I am "aware" of the Battle and have no knowledge of how that applies to the term Redneck. I am being earnest here and have always wondered where the term Redneck truly originated from and how it is derogatory.

 

Redneck originated in both Scotland and the US exactly as it sounds, as a term for white field workers, usually the lower class, as they had sunburned necks from working in the sun. Pretty simple, it seems. It however didn't really take hold in the common vernacular until after popular accounts of the situation surrounding blair mountain, when the workers would wear coloured bandannas to identify their political beliefs. Those with red bandannas were stating that they wanted to organize and form a union, and when it came down to violence, it also who identified was a legitimate target. Those Unionizers were commonly called Rednecks, because of the bandanna, and there are some that say that is the origin of the popular usage of the term in the US, but that really isn't likely, as it was in limited usage previously, and as its a term mostly used for referring to people who work in the sun (or that "type" of socio-economic class) and not used to refer to Socialists or Labor Organizers, and the coincident timing in usage is likely unrelated. Its basicly the preindustrial more agrarian version of "Blue Collar" which is a pretty proud term in most of America. Either way, i think its considered derogatory because people have swallowed the idea of "politically correct" in preparation for introducing a full blown Newspeak. Words arent offensive, its a silly idea, its ideas that are, and if you are careful, you can insult someone just as thoroughly with "safe" words as you can with any others.

 

Like i said, a label that was once used to describe people who fought for labor rights, and is still used to describe people who actually work for a living, doesnt sound like much of an insult to me.

 

Pantywaist Mouse-Jockey sounds a little more stinging, if you ask me. heh.

 

Sounds to me like Redneck is a hardworking middle class person who is proud of their roots and their place in this country. Doesn't appear derogatory to me, matter of fact kind of goes along with blue collar, which to me is a proud badge to wear. The term 'hick' on the other hand from my place of origin is the derogatory term for a dumb white trash idiot.

 

Thanks for the info Rev.

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I'd like to get good at this. Is there a term for natural line of sight? I find, with paintball and airsoft, that often the harder I try to aim the more likely I am to miss. But if you just point and shoot naturally, aim is sometimes better. If any of you golf, you've probably seen people miss 2 ft putts who then backtap it without even thinking right into the hole.

 

Is shooting from the hip like this? My range won't let you do this stuff, but there's a great video of a little 10 year old on You Tube bump firing an S12 with a 20 shell drum. He's holding it under his arm. It's funny to watch.

 

 

Put the you tube link up... It's friday, I need some entertainment.

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