Project "DeyArmigeddon" has Begun

[Boba Debt 350]

+1 to what BpS12 was implying.

 

 

 

 

I hope you approve of my body mechanics, after all, I never shot a weapon until I joined the Corps and in my 13 years I only shot expert 7 of the 10 times I qualled.

 

 

 

And if anyone wanted to question my claim about the balance of this weapon.

 

[mechsterbator 0]

eye relief looks very misleading when it is not shouldered. i'll admit, the scope does look a lot further back than it should be. however, when you have it shouldered it looks as though you have enough room to clear. just keep the beast shouldered tight

 

the criticism about balance still stands... you have presented a balanced firearm yes... but you still haven't chopped off barrel length, and added a loaded magazine. though for the sake of having saved OAL with having a bullpup design, you should consider keeping your barrel longer. for the sake of slugs at least.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

the criticism about balance still stands... you have presented a balanced firearm yes... but you still haven't chopped off barrel length, and added a loaded magazine. though for the sake of having saved OAL with having a bullpup design, you should consider keeping your barrel longer. for the sake of slugs at least.

Loaded with a chopped barrel the weight would be behind the PG... really that might make it a little unusual to get used to, but it'll be real easy to spin around a corner. It would be unbalanced in a way thats easier to overcome than a front heavy weapon.

[negev5021 25]

Looks like the forward grip is going to be very close to the trigger guard looking at your pics.....if that alum. U channel was slightly longer would you be able to connect via rail straight to that?

 

or perhaps something like this?

Edited November 14, 2009 by negev5021

[Boba Debt 350]

That is a possibility if I decide to not use the mid-barrel brake

 

If I use the mid barrel brake it has a picitinny rail on the bottom of it which I will use for the FG

 

 

 

Looks like the forward grip is going to be very close to the trigger guard looking at your pics.....if that alum. U channel was slightly longer would you be able to connect via rail straight to that?

 

or perhaps something like this?

[Garys4598 1,065]

+1 to what BpS12 was implying.

 

 

 

 

I hope you approve of my body mechanics, after all, I never shot a weapon until I joined the Corps and in my 13 years I only shot expert 7 of the 10 times I qualled.

 

Thanks for providing the pics. Guess I was wrong about the eye-relief. Nonetheless, I'd pay money to watch you fire that puppy with slugs, holding it like you are above. You're likely gonna slice your face open if not loosen a few dental fillings.

 

By the way, congrats on your 13 year service to the Corps and your rifle marksmanship qualification record of 7 out of 10 times obtaining Expert. (Ummm. . . up until this very moment, I had believed the Corps pretty much mandated that all its "foot" Marines attained and maintain Expert qualification ratings with their rifles. Clearly, that's not the case. Hmmm. . . .)

 

As I implied in my previous reply post, in concept I think your bullpup design is terrific.. . . I merely think the design execution of it, needs to be reworked. But more power to ya!

.

.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Gary

[Boba Debt 350]

Here is a better image of the gun with the forward grip and a fresh coat of black paint.

 

[lelandeod 179]

Can you manage to insert the Mag with the pistol grip that close? Or is the plan to magwell it?

[Boba Debt 350]

Can you manage to insert the Mag with the pistol grip that close? Or is the plan to magwell it?

 

 

I'm going to install a mag well but I never intended to use a drum with this. I can buy five 12 round mags for the cost of a 20 round drum and I will have 3 times as more fire power.

[BpS12 512]

+2 on the Mags vs. Drum, BD.

 

But I do have to question the mechanics I see in the "shouldering" photo. From what I see, you look to be in a more or less "Weaver" pistol stance. I have found that useing the foregrip and taking a "proper" stance(left leg forward), tends to turn the body to the left more and the head follows suit. Thus putting your face closer to the eye peice. Just stepping forward, my head moves forward 3/4" to 1".

 

Also, it looks to me(I could be wrong) that you are shrugging your right shoulder overly forward, thus placing your cheekbone on the rear(rounded portion) of the reciever cover. Mine tends to rest an inch or so farther forward and again thats with a 1" limbsaver butt pad. I would think you would be a bit farther forward of me even, so I am a little worried.

 

Not trying to be an ass, just trying to keep a fellow Bullpupper from getting a black eye(or worse). I do think you've got a great project going.

 

As for balance, as long as you have somewhat more weight behind your grip than in front, you should be fine. I've found that with the butt firmly against my shoulder, my left hand is free save for more accurate fire. The majority of weight is suported by my shoulder and right hand, makeing single hand fire possible, though preferabley, only if absolutley needed.

 

Also not questioning your qualifications. Hel, I couldn't shoot expert with the M16 until they gave me one with a M203 mounted on it, lol. But in my defense, My first M16 was actually made by Mattel, same as my G.I. Joes as a kid. Always had trouble with the "Toy Gun" thought. Did qual expert everytime, with everyting else though.

Edited November 17, 2009 by BpS12

[Zambidis 90]

Are you planning to weld up the holes in the receiver?

 

I think this is a pretty cool and unique project. The G36 sight/carry handle really sets it off. I look forward to seeing how you work out the trigger linkage and some of the other details.

[Boba Debt 350]

 

But I do have to question the mechanics I see in the "shouldering" photo .......

 

 

 

All I know is that when I throw this up into my shoulder it feels just right.

 

Most of the time text book body position doesn't always equal good shooting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you planning to weld up the holes in the receiver?

 

.....

 

 

No, I'll put rivets in them just like I did on my 7.62

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Nice lookin weapon, (in theory).

 

I'm impressed, you're further along than I'd have guessed at this point. I still don't like a bullpup shotgun, but you should finish the gun already, and post some targets/patterns of results.

[BpS12 512]

 

But I do have to question the mechanics I see in the "shouldering" photo .......

 

 

 

"All I know is that when I throw this up into my shoulder it feels just right.

 

Most of the time text book body position doesn't always equal good shooting."

 

 

Understand that, I love the feel of the Bullpup in general. It just makes so much more sence than all that butt sticking out behind, forcing the barrel farther forward than necessary. Oh, and the fact that you have your rail over the front lip of the reciever cover, is a big plus(good move), just in case of a Breach Explosion. Keeps the cover from being forced back and up, into your face/eyes.

 

As far as "text book", not hardly. However, my body mechanics may be very different from yours. I'm 6'1" and 200lbs, not to mention 40 some years of use and abuse, lol. What works for me, may not for you and vice versa.

 

The pic below is what I got for my typical stance(works for me, was just at my "mini range" Sunday). Leaning into the weapon, left foot forward, body turned a bit to the left and cheek bone comfortabley on the reciever cover. Works well in recovering to target after each shot and is fairly stable when moving. And I'm hitting where I'm aiming with each shot at 30yrds, even in rapid fire(as fast as I come back on target). But again, what works for me.......

 

Again not trying to be an ass, but it looks to me as though you're trying to fit yourself to the optic, rather than the optic to you. Just trying to save you the time I wasted trying to figure out my final config. If the stance in the pic is what works for you, more power to you.

 

LRoDV,

Mikel

 

PS - I don't use my 2-7x scope right now, not needed for HD and may not use it till I can get to a longer range, 100yrds + or go hunting(after the range). Also the Limbsaver butt pad eases the bite of the beast considerably. I'm too old for the "No Pain, No Gain" of my youth, lol. But be careful, I found that if you get a bit of oil in the pad(ie from the reciever), it slips off easier than is slips on. I tacked velcro to mine(butt and pad) and it stays in place just fine now.

Edited November 17, 2009 by BpS12

[Boba Debt 350]

 

The pic below is what I got for my typical stance(works for me, was just at my "mini range" Sunday). Leaning into the weapon, left foot forward, body turned a bit to the left and cheek bone comfortabley on the reciever cover. Works well in recovering to target after each shot and is fairly stable when moving. And I'm hitting where I'm aiming with each shot at 30yrds, even in rapid fire(as fast as I come back on target). But again, what works for me.......

 

 

 

 

I just tried to shoulder mine like the way you hold yours and I have to extend my head forward to get it in the same place as you.

 

I'm only 5'8" so that might explain the difference.

 

The only issue I have is the scope is a little low, I might raise it 1/2" on the final configuration.

 

I should mention that the optics part of this scope is secondary, the primary reason I am using the G-36 part os for the handle.

[BpS12 512]

 

The pic below is what I got for my typical stance(works for me, was just at my "mini range" Sunday). Leaning into the weapon, left foot forward, body turned a bit to the left and cheek bone comfortabley on the reciever cover. Works well in recovering to target after each shot and is fairly stable when moving. And I'm hitting where I'm aiming with each shot at 30yrds, even in rapid fire(as fast as I come back on target). But again, what works for me.......

 

 

 

 

I just tried to shoulder mine like the way you hold yours and I have to extend my head forward to get it in the same place as you.

 

I'm only 5'8" so that might explain the difference.

 

The only issue I have is the scope is a little low, I might raise it 1/2" on the final configuration.

 

I should mention that the optics part of this scope is secondary, the primary reason I am using the G-36 part os for the handle.

 

5" can make a difference.

 

Hmm, just a heads up(and it may mean nothing for your config) I had tried several optic options prior to what you saw in the pic, including a M16 P-rail mounted handle w/rear sight. I found it added weight(your handle is likely lighter) that wasn't needed and had the disadvantage of needing a severly raised front sight as well. I then added a scope ontop of that and found my gun was now nearly 5-6" taller than original. It was quickly becoming a "FrankenSaiga", lol.

 

I tried a set of SMG/M16A1 BUIS with a 4x scope mounted on "see-thru" rings. Shorter but still too tall for my likeing.

 

I then switched out the 4x with a 2-7x scope(if needed) that basically replaced the BUIS when attached(not attached MOST of the time). So far this works well for me. I found the carry handle an unnecessary addition esp. since I don't remember ever using one the entire 3yrs I was In Service. Carrying the weapon between the P-grip and the mag is nicely balanced and doesn't add to the height of the weapon. However I have small hands for a guy my size(ya ya, I've heard all the jokes,lol) and even then the charging handle can be an anoyance.

 

But there again, that's just me, you need to do what works best for you. You're making great progress, please don't let anything I say slow you down.

[thereisnospoon 1]

Looking good.

 

Can't wait to post pics of my .308...

[Boba Debt 350]

Look at what I just got from Gunbroker

 

 

[Boba Debt 350]

Mag well installed

 

[Superhawk138 202]

Looks good Boba. I bullpupped my .410 once

[YARP 300]

Boba Debt I'm really happy to see someone else out there bull pupping the S12, I'm also working on mine but havn't figured out the final design. I did finally decide that going with an EOTech (or any holographic variant thereof) would help get your eye out of the scope completely, with all the eye relief it gives. I even gave myself a magnifier but I doubt I'll use it that much. The other thing that you might want to consider is attaching that forward grip somewhere other than the barrel, I know it doesn't seem like it but the recoil will eventually (think of your receiver and the barrel as a hinge) start bending the barrel. I don't know why that product is on the market.

Couple questions for the sake of my build.

Are you going to have any iron sights on there? If so what kind and how are you mounting them?

I'm thinking of shortening my barrel and welding on the muzzle brake to make it an overall length of 18.25", but I think if I do that I'm going to get a face full of hot gas with each shot, have you experianced this yet?

 

I have to agree with you on the drum Vs. more 12 round mags, never made sense to me.

[BpS12 512]

Looks good.

[Fallschirmjager 0]

Nice job Boba Debt! Whoever says American Ingenuity is dead hasn't looked into the Saiga forum. Of all the firearms forums I've read over the years the innovation of the Saiga shotgun owners is right at the top. And the fact that it is individual owners who mod the firearm to their needs and not some 'board of directors' at some huge company is the kind of ingenuity that drives the American spirit. I can't wait to see the final product. And I'll bet the Russians are learning a lot from this board also.

[Boba Debt 350]

Well I am in Phase 2 of this project.

 

The Bull Pup conversion phase has been pushed back until I figureout if I can use the Chaos Top Rail.

[Boba Debt 350]

I received my gun back for Alex and I like it so much I may not go forward with the final phase of this conversion for a while.

 

I'll post progress pictures as I finish it up.