Midwest Industries forearm

[Arik 565]

These pics are of the SGL21-66, Saiga modified by Arsenal,with the Midwest Ind. rail.

 

 

I'm not gonna win any friends by saying this, but why would ANY OF YOU buy this inferior product when the Ultimak rail system is available?

 

I'm going to assume price is a big motive. I'd personally prefer the Ultimak, if I wanted a metal US made tri-rail for a Saiga rifle. But if money was an issue, I'd have no problem going for the MI.

 

Ultimak - about $220 (IIRC) for just the lower tri-rail.

MI - $140 for the upper and lower.

 

Lol I vaguely remember my dad watching something like that. What part or former republic are you from?

 

 

Ahh, that is probably true. I saw the MI rail at my local show for $199, so I didn't think there was such a big price difference!

 

Come on man, you know better than to take pricing at a gunshow for anything more than a joke!

 

If my red dot ever goes out due to batteries failure or an EMP event.....

 

Are you a MW2 player or an Ocean's 11 fan? Those are the only 2 places I've heard of such a thing.

 

 

"We've been EMP'ed!!! Our electronics are down!!"

 

(I gotta stop playing that game.....)

 

Broken Arrow

"

The first time I saw the effects of EMP portrayed in a movie was when they showed "The Day After" on Channel 1 in the USSR in the late 80's. They showed it over two nights. I was so terrified by the first part, that I skipped the second one. I finally watched it here, in the US, just a few years ago.

 

Any way, EMP (caused by a nuke exploded in the upper atmosphere) wiping out half of the country's power grid, seems to present a credible SHFT type of threat.

[bigsal 757]

 

Well, if you look at the pics of the latest Russian military AK developments, the rail designs that they have, do preserve the shape and dimensions of the standard polymer lower and upper. Plus, I'm a Russian American and it's what I choose. My good Russian American buddy who's currently serving in Germany is very anal when it comes to preserving the AK-74M look of his SLR-106, but he wants to get a MI rail the next time he comes home. It's the first rail system that he considered putting on it, due to the fact that it seems like a good quality product, which doesn't drastically alter the look of the weapon.

 

Me: MI rail is inferior

You: No its not, WHY???

Me: Cannot co-witness, Has short lower rail

You: But it looks Russian

Me: Really?

You: Yes, because I am Russian American and have talked it over with my Russian Buddy In Germany.

Me: It does not look like any piece of hardware currently used or in the process of field testing. The Russians have generally not used forward rails. Current prototypes (Pic Below) Look nothing like the MI rail system. However you are entitled to your opinion.

If you like the system because of how it looks that is your prerogative. But in reality it is both Inferior and Non-Authentic.

 

 

 

You: ?

Edited February 19, 2010 by bigsal

[BrutalGardener 205]

 

Well, if you look at the pics of the latest Russian military AK developments, the rail designs that they have, do preserve the shape and dimensions of the standard polymer lower and upper. Plus, I'm a Russian American and it's what I choose. My good Russian American buddy who's currently serving in Germany is very anal when it comes to preserving the AK-74M look of his SLR-106, but he wants to get a MI rail the next time he comes home. It's the first rail system that he considered putting on it, due to the fact that it seems like a good quality product, which doesn't drastically alter the look of the weapon.

 

Me: MI rail is inferior

You: No its not, WHY???

Me: Cannot co-witness, Has short lower rail

You: But it looks Russian

Me: Really?

You: Yes, because I am Russian American and have talked it over with my Russian Buddy In Germany.

Me: It does not look like any piece of hardware currently used or in the process of field testing. The Russians have generally not used forward rails. Current prototypes (Pic Below) Look nothing like the MI rail system. However you are entitled to your opinion.

If you like the system because of how it looks that is your prerogative. But in reality it is both Inferior and Non-Authentic.

 

 

 

You: ?

 

Both the MI quad-rail and the Russian hand guard prototype share the overall shape and dimensions with the current Russian military AK-74M polymer hand guards, do they not? I've never claimed any further similarities, have I? To me, putting a longer rail on an AKM variant, adds weight and makes it look like some kind of an "M4gery", while providing little practical advantage, but it's only a personal opinion.

 

In reality, the MI AK/Saiga Quad-Rail can be found for half the price of an Ultimak lower, is well designed and constructed; and is a great option for many AK and Saiga owners.

Edited February 19, 2010 by SpetsnazGRU

[TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121]

Well I have had my MI AK rail mounted for a little while now and I have found something...The top rail is narrower then the side and bottom rails. ohh and the MI AK rail can be found for $109 and free shipping... money was an issue for me.

[paprotective 362]

back on topic though.. NO ONE has a Saiga Specific rail as of yet.....

[havok 21]

BIGSAL,

How is the MI rail inferior? facts please

How is this rail inferior when the almighty Arsenal slap's these rail's on your beloved SGL-21's?

The Ultimak rail LOOK'S nothing like a MI rail. Some don't like long rails on X39 rifle's like myself. I like long rails on the S-12's.

Just cause you like or purchased the Ultimak does not make other rails cheap and inferior.

[bigsal 757]

BIGSAL,

How is the MI rail inferior? facts please

How is this rail inferior when the almighty Arsenal slap's these rail's on your beloved SGL-21's?

The Ultimak rail LOOK'S nothing like a MI rail. Some don't like long rails on X39 rifle's like myself. I like long rails on the S-12's.

Just cause you like or purchased the Ultimak does not make other rails cheap and inferior.

 

 

Didn't you read my previous posts?

1:The MI rail has the inability to co-witness with any optic.

2:The MI rail has less rail space than the ultimak (or even the UTG rail for that matter).

 

Those two reasons make it inferior.

 

Please read my previous posts before asking me a question. As of right now, you owe me 32 seconds of my life that I wasted answering this shit.

[paprotective 362]

Co-Witness or not I think the Ultimak is UGLY.. I like the UTG or Midwest (smoother look)..

 

Sal is the un-paid Ultimak sales rep.. Lol... Every post is tied in..

 

Did ANYONE get an MI handguard...???

[bigsal 757]

 

 

Sal is the un-paid Ultimak sales rep.. Lol... Every post is tied in..

 

Its funny they are actually based here in my hometown of Moscow Idaho..... You'd think they would upgrade me to a paid spokesman by now

 

 

Seriously though, its a great product, unrivaled in this segment.

[BrutalGardener 205]

BIGSAL,

How is the MI rail inferior? facts please

How is this rail inferior when the almighty Arsenal slap's these rail's on your beloved SGL-21's?

The Ultimak rail LOOK'S nothing like a MI rail. Some don't like long rails on X39 rifle's like myself. I like long rails on the S-12's.

Just cause you like or purchased the Ultimak does not make other rails cheap and inferior.

 

 

Didn't you read my previous posts?

1:The MI rail has the inability to co-witness with any optic.

2:The MI rail has less rail space than the ultimak (or even the UTG rail for that matter).

 

Those two reasons make it inferior.

 

Please read my previous posts before asking me a question. As of right now, you owe me 32 seconds of my life that I wasted answering this shit.

 

You seem like a very smart guy and make a lot of valid points, but I think that you are being too confrontational and a bit too harsh on the MI rail system here. I mean, MI put time, money and effort into R&D and released this new product, which seems to be of decent quality and is exactly what many people here have been looking for, FOR A VERY REASONABLE PRICE. Yes, it does lack in capabilities when compared to the Ultimak system and might not be quite as well made, but it's still a solid, American made product, not like some of the pure junk that Promag, UTG and Tapco put out. This kind of stuff should be applauded and encouraged, but you went ahead and (right away) harshly dismissed it as some kind of rubbish, which no one should even consider buying. I think that you are wrong in that.

Edited February 20, 2010 by SpetsnazGRU

[bigsal 757]

BIGSAL,

How is the MI rail inferior? facts please

How is this rail inferior when the almighty Arsenal slap's these rail's on your beloved SGL-21's?

The Ultimak rail LOOK'S nothing like a MI rail. Some don't like long rails on X39 rifle's like myself. I like long rails on the S-12's.

Just cause you like or purchased the Ultimak does not make other rails cheap and inferior.

 

 

Didn't you read my previous posts?

1:The MI rail has the inability to co-witness with any optic.

2:The MI rail has less rail space than the ultimak (or even the UTG rail for that matter).

 

Those two reasons make it inferior.

 

Please read my previous posts before asking me a question. As of right now, you owe me 32 seconds of my life that I wasted answering this shit.

 

You seem like a very smart guy and make a lot of valid points, but I think that you are being too confrontational and a bit too harsh on the MI rail system here. I mean, MI put time, money and effort into R&D and released this new product, which seems to be of decent quality and is exactly what many people here have been looking for, FOR A VERY REASONABLE PRICE. Yes, it does lack in capabilities when compared to the Ultimak system and might not be quite as well made, but it's still a solid, American made product, not like some of the pure junk that Promag, UTG and Tapco put out. This kind of stuff should be applauded and encouraged, but you went ahead and (right away) harshly dismissed it as some kind of rubbish, which no one should even consider buying. I think that you are wrong in that.

You are correct I am being way to harsh. I apologize for hurting your feelings. The MI rail is only moderately less functional than the UTG which is priced in the same ballpark, but it is made in the USA and therefore should be something people should actively consider if they cannot afford the Ultimak Rails.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Damn Bigsal............when you're not intentionally "stirring the shit".........I find myself agreeing with you quite a bit.

[bigsal 757]

Damn Bigsal............when you're not intentionally "stirring the shit".........I find myself agreeing with you quite a bit.

 

I call them like I see them.

[BrutalGardener 205]

You seem like a very smart guy and make a lot of valid points, but I think that you are being too confrontational and a bit too harsh on the MI rail system here. I mean, MI put time, money and effort into R&D and released this new product, which seems to be of decent quality and is exactly what many people here have been looking for, FOR A VERY REASONABLE PRICE. Yes, it does lack in capabilities when compared to the Ultimak system and might not be quite as well made, but it's still a solid, American made product, not like some of the pure junk that Promag, UTG and Tapco put out. This kind of stuff should be applauded and encouraged, but you went ahead and (right away) harshly dismissed it as some kind of rubbish, which no one should even consider buying. I think that you are wrong in that.

You are correct I am being way to harsh. I apologize for hurting your feelings. The MI rail is only moderately less functional than the UTG which is priced in the same ballpark, but it is made in the USA and therefore should be something people should actively consider if they cannot afford the Ultimak Rails.

 

Apology excepted! Of course, considering my deep emotional investment in this, it will take some time and work (with my therapist) for my feeling to fully recover, but it's all good. I just hope that you can be a little more sensitive next time.

Edited February 21, 2010 by SpetsnazGRU

[bigsal 757]

You seem like a very smart guy and make a lot of valid points, but I think that you are being too confrontational and a bit too harsh on the MI rail system here. I mean, MI put time, money and effort into R&D and released this new product, which seems to be of decent quality and is exactly what many people here have been looking for, FOR A VERY REASONABLE PRICE. Yes, it does lack in capabilities when compared to the Ultimak system and might not be quite as well made, but it's still a solid, American made product, not like some of the pure junk that Promag, UTG and Tapco put out. This kind of stuff should be applauded and encouraged, but you went ahead and (right away) harshly dismissed it as some kind of rubbish, which no one should even consider buying. I think that you are wrong in that.

You are correct I am being way to harsh. I apologize for hurting your feelings. The MI rail is only moderately less functional than the UTG which is priced in the same ballpark, but it is made in the USA and therefore should be something people should actively consider if they cannot afford the Ultimak Rails.

 

Apology excepted! Of course, considering my deep emotional investment in this, it will take some time and work (with my therapist) for my feeling to fully recover, but it's all good. I just hope that you can be a little more sensitive next time.

 

 

HA!

[havok 21]

BIGSAL,

How is the MI rail inferior? facts please

How is this rail inferior when the almighty Arsenal slap's these rail's on your beloved SGL-21's?

The Ultimak rail LOOK'S nothing like a MI rail. Some don't like long rails on X39 rifle's like myself. I like long rails on the S-12's.

Just cause you like or purchased the Ultimak does not make other rails cheap and inferior.

 

 

Didn't you read my previous posts?

1:The MI rail has the inability to co-witness with any optic.

2:The MI rail has less rail space than the ultimak (or even the UTG rail for that matter).

 

Those two reasons make it inferior.

 

 

Please read my previous posts before asking me a question. As of right now, you owe me 32 seconds of my life that I wasted answering this shit.

 

I read your post and and it's just your opinion that the MI rail is inferior. I wanted facts, like you owned it and it failed under normal use.

Let me use your same logic on the ultimak to make it inferior to the MI.

 

Ultimak is to long and has to much rail for my likeing = inferior

Ultimak is know to over heat and smoke optics = inferior

And as far as co-witness goes, I care not to even have my optic on the gas tube I like mine over the receiver where it belong's.

 

This is the right way to co-witness.

Edited February 21, 2010 by havok

[havok 21]

Co-Witness or not I think the Ultimak is UGLY.. I like the UTG or Midwest (smoother look)..

 

Sal is the un-paid Ultimak sales rep.. Lol... Every post is tied in..

 

Did ANYONE get an MI handguard...???

 

 

No I did not even order it yet I was waiting till they were listed in stock on MI site before I ordered. Which now I will.

[ZombieFucker 0]

Let me use your same logic on the ultimak to make it inferior to the MI.

 

Ultimak is to long and has to much rail for my likeing = inferior

Ultimak is know to over heat and smoke optics = inferior

And as far as co-witness goes, I care not to even have my optic on the gas tube I like mine over the receiver where it belong's.

 

Haha damn you got him there. Let me add to that:

 

Ultimak is heavier = inferior

Ultimak puts more weight farther foward on the rifle = inferior

Ultimak is over twice as much money for essentially the same thing = inferior

Ultimak means you have an EXPOSED gas tube, which is surely the best option

Can anybody say smoked fingers? OUCH = INFERIOR

[bigsal 757]

Let me use your same logic on the ultimak to make it inferior to the MI.

 

Ultimak is to long and has to much rail for my likeing = inferior

Ultimak is know to over heat and smoke optics = inferior

And as far as co-witness goes, I care not to even have my optic on the gas tube I like mine over the receiver where it belong's.

 

Haha damn you got him there. Let me add to that:

 

Ultimak is heavier = inferior

Ultimak puts more weight farther foward on the rifle = inferior

Ultimak is over twice as much money for essentially the same thing = inferior

Ultimak means you have an EXPOSED gas tube, which is surely the best option

Can anybody say smoked fingers? OUCH = INFERIOR

 

 

Holy crap thats the first time anyones tried to tell me NOT being able to co-witness was a selling point! Ive had a variety of optics on my ultimak raging from primary arms to aimpoint, none of which encountered failure. As to your point about weight, make sure you weigh the MI rail *AND* the gas tube, because the ultimak replaces that unit.... Go ahead, weigh the differences and see which comes out to be more....

 

And the part about the lower rail being to long, I almost busted out laughing, but for the fact that you were serious!

 

 

[icefire 10]

I ordered the saiga-specific MI-AK-S rail, and it's sitting in my P.O. box right now..just saw the delivery confirmation online....problem is, i'm out of town, and havent seen it yet. I wont see it until next saturday. I'm just hoping it's the same shorter length as their MI-AK version...I wanted a short railed handguard to show off the gas block and a bit of tube, for more of an AK look then the stock saiga guard. Hopefully, the MI saiga rail is short, and they didnt lenghten it to cover the whole tube like the stock guard or the other brands out there. If it IS that long, it will be up for sale right away, so I can buy the regular MI-AK rail to modify to fit my x39...I'll let you all know next week when I see it...BTW, mine cost $119 with free shipping from milsurp...

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

icefire, when you do get it, can you please post some up close pics of the rail itself? I am mainly interested in two things, how does it attach to the receiver and 2, how and where does it attach to the barrel and/or gas block. I would also like to know if it is compatible in any way with an Ultimak gas tube. For the life of me I cannot understand why there is not a single picture of this god damned thing anywhere on the internet (that I'm aware of at least...)

Edited February 23, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[Krom 36]

icefire, when you do get it, can you please post some up close pics of the rail itself? I am mainly interested in two things, how does it attach to the receiver and 2, how and where does it attach to the barrel and/or gas block. I would also like to know if it is compatible in any way with an Ultimak gas tube. For the life of me I cannot understand why there is not a single picture of this god damned thing anywhere on the internet (that I'm aware of at least...)

 

 

Bump me too.

 

Also Klassy, how does the SGM Tactical Tri Rail hold up to heat? Mainly where it attatches to the barrel notches is it metal? I figure I can heat shield the rest of the HG but the attatchment point has to be able handle the heat from a couple hundred rounds or so or it'll literally melt off the barrel.

[ACWeller 3]

Newbie to the rescue!!!

Please scroll to post #19 for your MI / Saiga goodness.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45644