waynebar 52 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) Edited January 19, 2010 by wayneb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) I have not heard of this. But the way it looks to me is, they are "asking" people not to, but there is no law yet actually making it illegal. Im not sure what they could do about it legally. Maybe they are just trying to bend the law some how as its in a building with vendors, I can only think maybe they claim this makes it not a "private" sale. Who knows. I couldnt find anything to determine if a law had been passed. As much as it would suck and be rediculous, at least private sales arent illegal! here is a link to an artical I read on it. http://www.prisonplanet.com/batf-notice-bans-private-gun-sales-in-texas.html It doesnt appear the flyers look very authentic. Like I said I think they would be hard pressed to bring charges that would stick against anyone who didnt "comply". Edited January 19, 2010 by chevyman097 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrbrownfolks 1 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I live in TX. Austin is quite the liberal town. I could see APD trying to persuade the site owner to prohibit private sales. It's hard to believe considering www.texasguntrader.com is a site I visit daily for ftf transactions. I've bought and sold a few items with private sellers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swells08 128 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Just more emotional propaganda to increase sales...think if it is soon illegal you will probably buy today rather than catch the next show. The flyer looks so official and all, I'd use it to wrap the half eaten sausage of my daughters with it as I look to buy my next toy..lol I have seen some people get denied guns at shows that turned around to a guy with a rifle/sahotgun on their back for sale and buy it. Not saying much, just two sides to every story and sometimes neither are accurate. The venue may prohibit this activity as they have prohibited loaded weapons with a ccw in shows around Michigan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Sounds like a load of crap to me. The BATFE should stick with what they're good at and for .. nothing. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ruffian72 548 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 This crap is done every ounce in awhile in different areas. Wichita, years ago had this happen. Stink, hell raised. Local law went as far as taking names and serial #'s. Really doesn't matter who is president. BATF will try to get ignorant agencies to mess with people. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yakdung 2,926 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I will be attending the large HGCA gun show this weekend in Houston. I will report back and will try to chase down the promoter and ask face to face. Yakdung Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Actually I have a buddy that is an officer in Austin, Ima give him a call and see if he knows anything about it. But my guess is the local law enforcement prolly had nothing to do with this as most of them were prolly inside buying guns. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 They might just be running this up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes. It sounds like a carefully worded attempt at coersion (read harassment) by intimating that laws would be broken if you do not comply. Of course the question of what happens if you don't comply seems to be left hanging which may be the whole point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 If they just asked (and by asked, i understand "threatened with prosecution and financial ruin") the event promoter to put it on the flyer, then all it amounts to is "please do this or someone can ask you to leave". If he is doing so unwillingly, though, as seems evident by his homepage, I cant really see him then ordering his security to oust anyone for legal activity. Now if the property owner has any sort of contract involved, he could be held liable, so who knows. Pretty odd, either way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThirtyAughtSix 101 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) From what I heard on the Alex Jones Show (I know a lot of people think he is a little "extreme") a couple callers were saying that it was for real. It was mostly intimidation, I don't think they would have actually arrested you if you did it because it isn't a REAL law, just something the APD/BATFE came up with for that one gun show. One person did end up getting busted at the show, did a private sale to an ILLEGAL ALIEN, but from what I hear, with private sales in Texas it isn't the sellers job to find out who they are selling to. Correct me if I'm wrong on that one. But the guy was definitely set up, sucks for him but in that situation, with a private sale, I would personally ask for an ID, but again, from my understanding of the law on private sales in the great state of Texas is that it isn't your responsibility as a seller to verify all that... but I don't live there so I don't know. I know all the laws in my state, would actually consider myself an expert on them, I have read over the statute so many times I could probably recite them off the top of my head. Anyways, it IS bullshit they are trying to make up laws that haven't been through the legislative process, it is a violation of the constitution and officers of the law know that (well most) there is a policy that if you are given an order that is unconstitutional, you don't need to follow it. You may get in trouble, but in court you will be vindicated. Stand up to them, tell them it is bullshit even if you end up getting cuffed and taken in, more people need to say NO to all these supposed laws/policies that were never made by the legislative process. THEY AREN'T THE LAW, THEY CAN'T MAKE UP LAWS. The constitution of the United States in of independant states makes all of this very clear. EDIT TO ADD: This also happened in Tennessee as well, don't have any definitive information on it yet... Edited January 19, 2010 by ThirtyAughtSix Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 From my understanding its kinda of a "at your own risk" if it turns out the person is prohibited from buying a firearm you can be held responsible. But you are not "required" to check. For example, felons, illegal aliens would also fall under prohibited from buying a firearm. He was very unlucky. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Apache 4 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) Sounds like just another shining example of BATFE aggression and intimidation toward law abiding American citizens who choose to excerce their Constitutional Right, with the backing of liberal, politically correct (and woefully clueless as to the law) local law enforcement. Does anyone really expect anything less from the BATFE? The scary part is these assholes "believe" in what they're doing ... Edited January 19, 2010 by Apache Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobRez 1,895 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Seems like an obvious yet feeble attempt from the event organizers to make sure they get a piece of the action! If you deal in the lot and you didn't pay the entry fee to them! You did not pay to look at guns folks paid to display! How awful that you cut them out of the picture!! Money money money!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Seems like an obvious yet feeble attempt from the event organizers to make sure they get a piece of the action! If you deal in the lot and you didn't pay the entry fee to them! You did not pay to look at guns folks paid to display! How awful that you cut them out of the picture!! Money money money!!! This could deff be the case. Never thought of it, but if so they prolly got with the local pd and asked if they could pass out the flyers and have security because they didnt want anyone dealing on the side without them getting a piece of the action. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobRez 1,895 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 If it is on private property, that would open many doors for them to say "no side/private deals on our property". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
3ac6ucb 24 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Looks like authentic bullshit to me. Call your local BATF office and ask them! Now, parking lots are private property and the owners and gunshow organizers can ban whatever activities they like.... and the only law you'd be breaking for disobeying them would be trespassing! So if you're going to conduct FTF sales, do it discreetly. I'm guessing this was either some anti-gunner's attempt at propaganda, or a gun show organizer trying to get more people to buy tickets and exhibition spaces. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I call BS on general grounds. Also Alex Jones has unfortunately stuck his foot in his mouth a couple times and has become unwelcome on some national radio programs that used to feature him regularly before he used fictitious info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Well, being a dealer in Texas, I can tell you that this is no State or Federal Law. It might be something that the locals invented on the fly to discourage the purchase of firearms by people that probably shouldn't be buying them. However, if you are an FFL in Texas, this changes nothing since all transactions done by FFL's at gun shows are subject to the same steps as a sale in your store. Now, if you are an FFL in Texas trying to sell a private non-inventory firearm at a gun show that you have owned for more than a year, there is no law in place that says you have to follow through with a 4473, however I would, simply to demonstrate proof that the weapon has left my hands. I don't know guys, this sounds more like a City of Austin idea. Give it a few days to get the Texas Rifle Association Legal Team working on it with the NRA and this "ordinance" shall vanish like a virgin on prom night. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Sounds like BS to me. Sound like the 'promoter' may have asked the PD to watchdog the lot for 'sales' outside and hence avoid paying the entrance fee. The local PD would probably 'detain you' and make a BIG scence for bs.. The local PD may also feel the handling of firearms by non-ffl's is hazardous enough to allow there PD name to be printed on the flyers also.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Austin PD Press release, courtesy of D. Codrea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Unless I'm mistaken, the gun show is privately run at a rented venue like a hotel or convention center and such, so however things are done, regardless of law, would be up to the organizers/owners of the property/etc. wouldn't it? So if the promoters of the show want to reduce their liability of accusations of shady private sales going on, they're well within their right to say who can or can't sell at their venue. Who knows, maybe they got a lot of pressure from the vendors there to get rid of private sellers. Sucks to be an FFL trying to scare people into panic buying a WASR for $800 when a guy is walking around with one for $350. I wouldn't want someone telling me what I can do in my own house or business, so long as it's not something completely unethical, that's for sure. So what they're doing seems legit to me, and those who disagree should purchase elsewhere - they'll get the hint and probably reconsider. TLDR: I'm not sure if the NRA can really do anything? I mean yeah, they're probably using the APD/ATF excuse to try and not look like assholes, but, if they simply said, "we're having a gun show at our rented venue, no private sales allowed on our property cause we said so" they're within their right to do so. Edited January 20, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 So basically the ICE/ATF and local PD came up with this NOTE to 'intimidate' private sellers from selling to illegals and felons... Oh ok.. Now it makes sense.. Its to 'help' us..... I would think the NRA would like a few copies of the dept. letter and the flyer.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Well there it is. Told you guys it had to be local LEO ideas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 There is a pending Texas Open Records Act request for information on exactly what BATFE told APD to do, so i guess we will find out who's idea it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I dunno from what I read it just leads me to believe there is a deeper side to the story. Like they knew somthing was going on, or got a tip on illiegal sales. If they wanted to bust innocent people and stop us from selling guns, why would they "tip" you off, they could just show up and do it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) From my understanding its kinda of a "at your own risk" if it turns out the person is prohibited from buying a firearm you can be held responsible. But you are not "required" to check. For example, felons, illegal aliens would also fall under prohibited from buying a firearm. He was very unlucky. Clearly your "understanding" is not based on any kind of law. Please state the statute that makes you legally responsible for checking the background of anyone that you sell a firearm to in good faith to be not to be in a prohibited class of buyer. This is just political strong arming and is not the type of activity that should be engaged in by law enforcement. I would like to see the docket of all the arrests that have been made that prompted this action, via open records. Otherwise, I call bullshit. Edited January 20, 2010 by Azrial Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShotgunLobotomy 0 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I live in Austin and have been following this. Its anyones guess as to who thought it up but they did it and prohibited private sells without a background check from a licence FFL. A lot of people are mad and although it violates State and Federal laws on gun sales they were able to get away with it by putting pressure on both the landloard of the venue and the gun show promoter. Long story short is the venue has decided gun shows are not worth the trouble anymore. This makes the second gun show we lost in Austin this year. A feaud between The Saxet Gun Show and Texas Gun Show. Ended up with the Saxet loosing their venue and TGS taking over then TGS gets run off cuz of this BS. I dont know if Austin is going to be having gun shows anymore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 It looks like a restraint of free trade to me... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
3ac6ucb 24 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 It looks like a restraint of free trade to me... Well, sort of. Conduct your face-to-face (FTF) sales somewhere other than the private parking lot of the gun show. If the owners of that private property don't want you selling guns in the parking lot, they can kick you out for trespassing. In other words, keep it on the down low or head next door and sell guns in Wal Mart's parking lot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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