hobbyist 0 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 (edited) Hi guys, Do you think the SAIGA (Converted or Unconverted) is reliable enough to be used for Home Defense? Edited: FYI: I have 3 that I have converted! Yes three and I love all three of them. But I am just wondering, as that's the gun I leave accessible for my wife when I go out of town on buz. Edited January 26, 2010 by Hobbyist Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Oh Lord, I see this post going very very wrong. yes. Its more than reliable. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyist 0 Posted January 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Oh Lord, I see this post going very very wrong. yes. Its more than reliable. Have patience grasshopper... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 (edited) it's up there for the MOST reliable semi auto long gun Edited January 26, 2010 by volkov Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 The S-12 is based off the AK design; one of the most reliable weapons designs ever conceived. From the factory, the S-12 is perfectly reliable with high-brass, (what you'd use for home defense). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Is a Bear Catholic? Does the Pope take a dump in the woods? The answer it, it depends, mine is. Yours may need some tweaking beofre you enjoy my level of reliability! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 You should base your opinion on whether the S12 is reliable on the three guns that you already have. Go out and shoot them. If you feel that the S12 is not, then sell them and buy you a Rem 870. Cant go wrong with a pump and Im sure that some "sucker" out there would buy your unreliable, POS guns off your hands for about what you paid for them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sudaevpps43 31 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 (edited) Hi guys, Do you think the SAIGA (Converted or Unconverted) is reliable enough to be used for Home Defense? Edited: FYI: I have 3 that I have converted! Yes three and I love all three of them. But I am just wondering, as that's the gun I leave accessible for my wife when I go out of town on buz. Well the way I look at it, the russian army has very demanding standards with regards to firearms reliability, and they use the Saiga 12, and so if the Saiga 12 is reliable enough for the russian army, then I would say it's more than reliable enough for home defense. Edited January 26, 2010 by Frogfoot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Will486 7 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 in case you havent seen this classic.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gibbles 23 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Mine is, I just have a problem storing a full 10rd mag with the bolt closed, the round deforms and I can never load that round with out lots of force... Works great with open bolt though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Hi guys, Do you think the SAIGA (Converted or Unconverted) is reliable enough to be used for Home Defense? Edited: FYI: I have 3 that I have converted! Yes three and I love all three of them. But I am just wondering, as that's the gun I leave accessible for my wife when I go out of town on buz. The S-12 platform is extremely reliable and a perfect fit for Home Defense duties. Not many platforms can offer the versatility and pure destructive capabilities the S12 can in a CQC situation. But like all firearms, if you take care of it, it will take care of you. Be sure to take your wife to the range and let her become familiar with the operation, handling, and recoil so she knows what to expect as well as what kind of damage it will do on a target. Also, try to set up your home defense system in layers with alarms, dogs and at least two readily accessible back up weapons in safe locations. Set alarms for random times and practice what to do / where to go in the event of an emergency or home invasion. Good luck and stay safe! Zach KROSS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 you could always get the wife a 410 or 20ga... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyist 0 Posted January 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Guys thanks for your feedback. Since I converted my SAIGA's, about 18 months ago, I have only put about 20-30 rounds (mostly buckshot) thru each gun. Before taking it to the range, I checked the gas port, and all three have 4 holes (I think). Also, polished the bolt, etc for the best reliability and smoothness. But that's about all the testing I have done per gun (20-30 rounds each). Now, to evaluate reliability (Formally) we need to compute the mean-time-between-failure (MTBF), which is the avg number of shots after which the gun fails. e.g. after about 100 rounds gun FTE. But to compute and AVG, gun needs to be shot a LOT to measure the MTBF and then compute the reliability. So I appreciate to hear from people the have put at least a few hundred rounds thru their SAIGAs. It would be great to hear about the specifics on the gun, how many gas ports, what mods, how often the gun failed, how many rounds, etc? If you share your experience, then I can compute a readability number for the gun, similar to the reliability requirement number they had for the gun when they designed it. Then we will really know. What do you think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Mark 2,452 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Guys thanks for your feedback. Since I converted my SAIGA's, about 18 months ago, I have only put about 20-30 rounds (mostly buckshot) thru each gun. Before taking it to the range, I checked the gas port, and all three have 4 holes (I think). Also, polished the bolt, etc for the best reliability and smoothness. But that's about all the testing I have done per gun (20-30 rounds each). Now, to evaluate reliability (Formally) we need to compute the mean-time-between-failure (MTBF), which is the avg number of shots after which the gun fails. e.g. after about 100 rounds gun FTE. But to compute and AVG, gun needs to be shot a LOT to measure the MTBF and then compute the reliability. So I appreciate to hear from people the have put at least a few hundred rounds thru their SAIGAs. It would be great to hear about the specifics on the gun, how many gas ports, what mods, how often the gun failed, how many rounds, etc? If you share your experience, then I can compute a readability number for the gun, similar to the reliability requirement number they had for the gun when they designed it. Then we will really know. What do you think? I think you might be over thinking this a little. As for the wife, mine doesn't feel comfortable with the 12. Says its too big for her. I say buy a couple hundred rounds of high brass and you and the misses hit the range with one of your Saiga's. That should tell you what you want to know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 early on after conversion i had 1 FTF(fail to feed) with AGP mags and 15 with Pro-mags over a course of 320 rounds. During the "redneck skeet shoot" over 250 rounds were sent through it without a single failure using factory fives, and AGPs. Break it in, and find what mags it preforms reliably with. Also Ammo can be a factor also. I use mostly Remington sluggers(2 3/4"), 00 buck(3 inch), Winchester #2 steel goose loads(3"), and remington sport loads(bulk 100 packs 2 3/4") Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 I think you might be over thinking this a little. Concur 110%. If this is the gun that you've decided to use for HD, then train with it. The MTBF rate only gives you a probability of when the weapon might fail but you are still going to have to train on how you're going to react when it happens. Assume that all weapons will malf and be prepared for it. Incidentally, the only time my shotgun has jammed is when I forget to switch the gas tube settings and I'm shooting club ammo. I've had it a little over a year and I'm probably at the 1.5k mark on various ammo loads. It's jammed twice on me for the reasons stated. I haven't cleaned it since I first got it and I've only used the 5rd factory mags because I live in the People's Republic of New Jersistan. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DeMilled 5 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 (edited) Is a Bear Catholic? Does the Pope take a dump in the woods? The answer it, it depends, mine is. Yours may need some tweaking beofre you enjoy my level of reliability! My first thought when I saw the title was "Does a bear shit in the woods".....I like how you tweaked it better. Edited January 27, 2010 by DeMilled Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Mine is 100% reliable. But I will qualify that by adding it was modded correctly and has 300+ rounds through it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 The only type of failure I've ever had with my S-12 were some FTE issues with extremely low-brass birdshot shortly after I bought the gun, (no break-in or other refinement done). I've never had a single issue with high-brass shells, even when the gun was brand new and all OEM. I assume you're not going to load with el-cheapo birdshot for home defense. But wait, I've changed my mind. Your suspicions are justified. The S-12 is an unreliable pos. Luckily, I'm willing to take it off your hands and trade you an ultra-reliable Winchester pump for yours, (not semi-auto or mag-fed, but its reliability is unquestionable), cause I'm just that nice a guy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 (edited) I had to chop 3" off the barrel without playing with the gas ports to get my gun to jam using light loads of course. Before that I waited 2+ years to clean the gas system out just to see how many rounds she would take to jam...I got bored of waiting. Edited January 27, 2010 by scoutjoe 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YARP 300 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 I had to chop 3" off the barrel without playing with the gas ports to get my gun to jam using light loads of course. Before that I waited 2+ years to clean the gas system out just to see how many rounds she would take to jam...I got bored of waiting. LOL! "I got bored of waiting"....You just took the words out of my mouth, I put a couple 1000rds through with out cleaning except hitting the barrel and chamber real quick. got bored the other day did some gun cleaning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyist 0 Posted January 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 in case you havent seen this classic.. Great Video. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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