Budget Red Dot Optics Recommendations?

[bohound 281]

You rule Klassy! Thanks to you and this thread, I'm going TRS-25 (not for a few weeks, I'll let you know well in advance in case you are ready/want something different) on an Ultimak. I'm sold- "grown out" of my EOTech and UTG quad rail for simple ruggedness adn cowitness.

 

Now to figure out which lower HG to get (got to be top quality/milspec), and get a retainer!

 

I love this forum, my Saiga, and my horrible case of BRD!

Edited May 26, 2010 by bohound

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

You rule Klassy! Thanks to you and this thread, I'm going TRS-25 (not for a few weeks, I'll let you know well in advance in case you are ready/want something different) on an Ultimak. I'm sold- "grown out" of my EOTech and UTG quad rail for simple ruggedness adn cowitness.

 

Now to figure out which lower HG to get (got to be top quality/milspec), and get a retainer!

 

I love this forum, my Saiga, and my horrible case of BRD!

 

Yeah, definitely.

 

I really like the standard Saiga forearm, I add rails to the bottom of it for a vertical grip on 3 different ones. I use a TAPCO rail kit from CSS (probably other rail kits out there if you're looking for milspec) a ~1/16" steel plate from the back of a computer, I buy better screws at Pep Boys, I use 10-32 1" Socket heads and then shorten them after they're in, along with red loc-tite and JB weld between the surfaces of the rail and handguard, also after the loc tite cures, I then encapsulate the nut/screw/plate in JB weld. It comes out really, really solid and between screws, plate, and JB it's pretty overkill. I also cut away the top section of the factory handguard when I had the Ultimak. I don't know about Milspec, but it is very solid and cheap to do yourself, if you're looking to try it out.

 

The same can also be done to the Choate brand AK handguards as well. Those ones are good for this because they have a flat bottom and sides, and it ends up being a US made tri-rail AK handguard for under $30. They also have a standard size front (a lot of the newer AK guards have an internal heat shield so they have a different shaped/sized face than the wood AK handguards most retainers are designed for. The heat shield type ones are better off with a newer Bulgarian retainer than the standard ones. These ones also have deep ribs on the inside that hug the barrel very tight. And best of all, for some reason they sell for only $10 lol.

 

 

And here is a cut-out one I made when I had the Ultimak on there.

 

 

And one of the Choate brand AK handguards with a bottom rail:

Edited May 26, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[FatalSylence 8]

You rule Klassy! Thanks to you and this thread, I'm going TRS-25 (not for a few weeks, I'll let you know well in advance in case you are ready/want something different) on an Ultimak. I'm sold- "grown out" of my EOTech and UTG quad rail for simple ruggedness adn cowitness.

 

Now to figure out which lower HG to get (got to be top quality/milspec), and get a retainer!

 

I love this forum, my Saiga, and my horrible case of BRD!

 

You're getting rid of your UTG quad rail, bohound? I'm looking to get one of those.

[bohound 281]

Yeah- I'm getting rid of it. I don't use 3/4 of the rails- Just the top for my EOTech. I find tacticool accesories to be too much clutter for me, plus they throw balance out the window.

 

If you remember me telling you though- My brother has "dibs" on it for his 7.62. I'm sure he'll mount an optic, light, laser, and probably a grip-pod. He's pretty ninja like that. I'll let you know if he passes though... Should be in a week or two.

 

Once again Klassy- Great input, excellent options to consider!

Edited May 26, 2010 by bohound

[Smw421 0]

Does anyone know which mount sits lower, the UTG side rail or the BP-02?

[FatalSylence 8]

Yeah- I'm getting rid of it. I don't use 3/4 of the rails- Just the top for my EOTech. I find tacticool accesories to be too much clutter for me, plus they throw balance out the window.

 

If you remember me telling you though- My brother has "dibs" on it for his 7.62. I'm sure he'll mount an optic, light, laser, and probably a grip-pod. He's pretty ninja like that. I'll let you know if he passes though... Should be in a week or two.

 

Once again Klassy- Great input, excellent options to consider!

 

Ahh, I remember...

[jcgriffindesign 0]

I just ordered a UTG quick detach side mount. Pretty excited about it. I plan on getting a lower end trophy Red dot as thats all I can afford at the moment. From what I read, its best to be efficient with the iron sights, anything else is just icing on the cake when it comes to these rifles.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

From what I read, its best to be efficient with the iron sights, anything else is just icing on the cake when it comes to these rifles.

 

Pretty much.

[enthusiast 22]

just got the vortex strikefire green/red dot!very nice!has a 2x multiplier!looks great!have on a beryl mount.

 

Which model did you order?

 

They have VX-RD-SFRD-Hunt or VX-RD-SFRD-AR15 or VX-RD-STKF-SF-BR-AR15?

 

I have pretty much settled on the same one.

 

thanks!

[GregM1 241]

Does anyone know which mount sits lower, the UTG side rail or the BP-02?

 

 

I had the UTG for a while but now have the BP-02. I would say the difference is minimal. I think the BP 02 is just a touch lower.

-----------------

 

I havent decided yet as to which red dot i will go with. I think its between the Strikefire and the TRS-25. Klassy's results are pretty good too. After Krom's luck with his POSP, http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=54575 I decided maybe I should get an optic with a warranty. Maybe later down the road get a PK-A or some other proper Russian optic.

Edited May 27, 2010 by GregM1

[enthusiast 22]

 

I had the UTG for a while but now have the BP-02. I would say the difference is minimal. I think the BP 02 is just a touch lower.

 

Did you recently buy the BP-02? I am not having any luck finding one in stock.

[GregM1 241]

 

I had the UTG for a while but now have the BP-02. I would say the difference is minimal. I think the BP 02 is just a touch lower.

 

Did you recently buy the BP-02? I am not having any luck finding one in stock.

 

 

Sorry enthusiast, I just found your reply. I found mine a few months ago on Gunbroker for a suprising 30 bucks shipped. It even had an extra side rail with it which I resold. I was suprised to be the only bidder on it too.

 

I decided to get a Bushnell Trophy red dot untill I can afford a cobra. I got this one at academy the other day. they had them for 100$ on clearance. It has the multi-reticle, multi-brightness, auto-on features. It worked fine on the way home. (No, I wasn't driving and working a red dot at the same time.) The power-switch immediately messed up within the first hour. It would only do Auto-on. The Manual Off/On switches were non responsive. I went back and exchanged it. The replacement has been fine and its been about a week. I will be going to sight in at the range Thursday. I will then give it a few weeks of moving it around the house regularly before returning and check if zero holds.

 

So far, I am pleased with it even though I got a lemon on the first go.

[Jigen 8]

 

I had the UTG for a while but now have the BP-02. I would say the difference is minimal. I think the BP 02 is just a touch lower.

 

Did you recently buy the BP-02? I am not having any luck finding one in stock.

 

Kalinka carries the BP-02 and has them in stock. Of the two types of them, you want the BP-02 Low Profile Mount. They are pretty much the lowest railed side mount out there.

 

Some people don't like Kalinka because they can be slow, especially on stuff they have listed as on reorder. However, I just ordered a mount from them a month ago and got my order in about six days. The BP-02 runs about $58 bucks from them. I think their prices and service were a little better back when Freedom Optics was still in business and competing with them directly for importing sites and mounts.

[davswn1986 7]

Heard the Itac RDS1 is pretty good and botach tactical has them for 79.95 right now. Been thinking of getting one. Says on their sight its the same manufacturer that makes the sig sts-081. Odds are its the same sight just doesn't have the sig branding on it and the pricetag of 215 dollars.

[jimdigriz 580]

Unfortunately I'm shooting corrosive now, and have to remove the tube to clean the gas block, so Ultimak is a no-go.

 

With a bit of creativity, you can use your corrosive ammo with your Ultimak, without having to remove for cleaning. I've read a number of ideas how to do this, and others have done it successfully. My first attempt did not go so well; not that my gun rusted, but rather that water and WD-40 made a big mess all over the front end of my gun, escaping from the top of the Ultimak gas tube despite my efforts to be careful. This weekend I will try it with a gun without the Ultimak, but leave the gas tube attached while cleaning. Later I can remove the tube and see how I did. The tentative plan is to dump (several times) small amounts of boiling water down a filter that has a tube attached. The tube will convey the water past the gap between the Ultimak and the rear sight block, and will wash out the corrosive salts in the gas block. Then I will use a cleaning rod and a shotgun swab soaked in Hoppe's #9 down into the gas block. Optionally, I can either remove the residue with an air compressor, Brakleen, or I could soak it up with a dry shotgun swab.

 

It may be that the boiling water is all that is needed (aside from maybe a once-a-year disassembly and full cleaning), or the boiling water with the air compressor. I will experiment and report back. In any event, after playing with side mounts again, I've decided the Ultimak is the only way to go. I'll find a way to make it work with a minimum of fuss.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited July 30, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[jimdigriz 580]

Well, unfortunately I had to take the Ultimak off the 5.45. It was getting too hard for me to clean the gas block from corrosive ammo without removing it.

 

How were you doing it?

[XXasdf 29]

I would recommend the PK-ASV(side mounted OTB), holds up to .308/12ga recoil and doesn't need any batteries to operate. Price ranges from $200-$300+.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Well, unfortunately I had to take the Ultimak off the 5.45. It was getting too hard for me to clean the gas block from corrosive ammo without removing it.

 

How were you doing it?

 

With a bit of creativity, you can use your corrosive ammo with your Ultimak, without having to remove for cleaning. I've read a number of ideas how to do this, and others have done it successfully. My first attempt did not go so well; not that my gun rusted, but rather that water and WD-40 made a big mess all over the front end of my gun, escaping from the top of the Ultimak gas tube despite my efforts to be careful. This weekend I will try it with a gun without the Ultimak, but leave the gas tube attached while cleaning. Later I can remove the tube and see how I did. The tentative plan is to dump (several times) small amounts of boiling water down a filter that has a tube attached. The tube will convey the water past the gap between the Ultimak and the rear sight block, and will wash out the corrosive salts in the gas block. Then I will use a cleaning rod and a shotgun swab soaked in Hoppe's #9 down into the gas block. Optionally, I can either remove the residue with an air compressor, Brakleen, or I could soak it up with a dry shotgun swab.

 

It may be that the boiling water is all that is needed (aside from maybe a once-a-year disassembly and full cleaning), or the boiling water with the air compressor. I will experiment and report back. In any event, after playing with side mounts again, I've decided the Ultimak is the only way to go. I'll find a way to make it work with a minimum of fuss.

 

Any thoughts?

 

That sounds like it would work great, actually. A little involved, but it would definitely work. If you try it out, let me know how it goes. I am enjoying it with the optic on a side mount but man, that Ultimak was really nice and the position on it didn't interfere with cheek weld at all. The BP-02 is pretty low so I only lift my head a tiny bit, unlike the POSP which pretty much eliminates cheek weld and it's more of a "chin weld"

 

As for how I am doing it, I was simply spraying some hot water down there with a spray bottle, then ramming a ripped up rag soaked in WD-40 down the gas tube with a cleaning rod. Didn't work so well so I went to a side mount and it all works good now. I clean them really simple with just dish rags and this gun oil I make. On the 5.45 I do the spray bottle of water then the WD40, then the oil. The x39, S12s just get a rag soaked in oil wiped down on all the moving parts every like 500 rounds and the barrel gets a pull through with a bore snake after every range trip.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...Russian PK-A are a good choice too.

 

I just wanted to mention that I'm selling, (at a discount), a never-used PK-A w (Weaver mount) 1 MOA red dot scope along with a lightly used BP-02 low profile side-rail AK scope mount here.

Edited August 5, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[jimdigriz 580]

That sounds like it would work great, actually. A little involved, but it would definitely work. If you try it out, let me know how it goes. I am enjoying it with the optic on a side mount but man, that Ultimak was really nice and the position on it didn't interfere with cheek weld at all. The BP-02 is pretty low so I only lift my head a tiny bit, unlike the POSP which pretty much eliminates cheek weld and it's more of a "chin weld"

 

As for how I am doing it, I was simply spraying some hot water down there with a spray bottle, then ramming a ripped up rag soaked in WD-40 down the gas tube with a cleaning rod. Didn't work so well so I went to a side mount and it all works good now. I clean them really simple with just dish rags and this gun oil I make. On the 5.45 I do the spray bottle of water then the WD40, then the oil. The x39, S12s just get a rag soaked in oil wiped down on all the moving parts every like 500 rounds and the barrel gets a pull through with a bore snake after every range trip.

 

I tried a couple of different methods, although not the exact ones listed in my message above. Neither of them worked really well. So far I've figured out that WD40 will not be part of my regimen no matter what. It's a bit messy and stinky, and, even worse, I woke up in the night and TASTED it. I had done my cleaning in another room, and later brought my gun back in to my bedroom, and I guess it got into the air in my room from there.

 

The next method I'm thinking is to soak a bottle brush in Hoppe's #9 at the range, scrub the gas tube and gas block, and use my handy funnel tube to wash the crud out with water when I get home. Then I will dry it out with a air compressor. We'll see how it goes.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

That sounds like it would work great, actually. A little involved, but it would definitely work. If you try it out, let me know how it goes. I am enjoying it with the optic on a side mount but man, that Ultimak was really nice and the position on it didn't interfere with cheek weld at all. The BP-02 is pretty low so I only lift my head a tiny bit, unlike the POSP which pretty much eliminates cheek weld and it's more of a "chin weld"

 

As for how I am doing it, I was simply spraying some hot water down there with a spray bottle, then ramming a ripped up rag soaked in WD-40 down the gas tube with a cleaning rod. Didn't work so well so I went to a side mount and it all works good now. I clean them really simple with just dish rags and this gun oil I make. On the 5.45 I do the spray bottle of water then the WD40, then the oil. The x39, S12s just get a rag soaked in oil wiped down on all the moving parts every like 500 rounds and the barrel gets a pull through with a bore snake after every range trip.

 

I tried a couple of different methods, although not the exact ones listed in my message above. Neither of them worked really well. So far I've figured out that WD40 will not be part of my regimen no matter what. It's a bit messy and stinky, and, even worse, I woke up in the night and TASTED it. I had done my cleaning in another room, and later brought my gun back in to my bedroom, and I guess it got into the air in my room from there.

 

The next method I'm thinking is to soak a bottle brush in Hoppe's #9 at the range, scrub the gas tube and gas block, and use my handy funnel tube to wash the crud out with water when I get home. Then I will dry it out with a air compressor. We'll see how it goes.

 

Yikes, I can imagine tasting WD40

[uzitiger 193]

I have a 4x Com Bloc scope made in Belarus and a Kobra one which are both military grade and can take abuse. The 4x scope and many others which use the side rail are made for right handed shooters since the scope sits to the left of the receiver, I am left handed. The Kobra holographic scope sits on top of the receiver centered which makes it easier for me to use. I did use a cheapo red dot scope which I dropped and messed it up. It wasn't military grade but it was good for plinking.

Edited August 7, 2010 by uzitiger

[jimdigriz 580]

That sounds like it would work great, actually. A little involved, but it would definitely work. If you try it out, let me know how it goes. I am enjoying it with the optic on a side mount but man, that Ultimak was really nice and the position on it didn't interfere with cheek weld at all. The BP-02 is pretty low so I only lift my head a tiny bit, unlike the POSP which pretty much eliminates cheek weld and it's more of a "chin weld"

 

As for how I am doing it, I was simply spraying some hot water down there with a spray bottle, then ramming a ripped up rag soaked in WD-40 down the gas tube with a cleaning rod. Didn't work so well so I went to a side mount and it all works good now. I clean them really simple with just dish rags and this gun oil I make. On the 5.45 I do the spray bottle of water then the WD40, then the oil. The x39, S12s just get a rag soaked in oil wiped down on all the moving parts every like 500 rounds and the barrel gets a pull through with a bore snake after every range trip.

 

I tried a couple of different methods, although not the exact ones listed in my message above. Neither of them worked really well. So far I've figured out that WD40 will not be part of my regimen no matter what. It's a bit messy and stinky, and, even worse, I woke up in the night and TASTED it. I had done my cleaning in another room, and later brought my gun back in to my bedroom, and I guess it got into the air in my room from there.

 

The next method I'm thinking is to soak a bottle brush in Hoppe's #9 at the range, scrub the gas tube and gas block, and use my handy funnel tube to wash the crud out with water when I get home. Then I will dry it out with a air compressor. We'll see how it goes.

 

Yikes, I can imagine tasting WD40

 

OK, I broke my cheap air compressor trying to top off my car tire. I tried this routine suggested by someone on another forum: Connect two cleaning rods (not OEM Saiga ones, obviously), attach 20 gauge mop, soak in Hoppe's #9, and run through the gas system. Let drain, and hose out the gas tube with Brakleen, which flushes residue and leaves none of its own. Pretty simple routine. Preliminary indications are very positive, but 2 or 3 days should tell the story.

 

Jim

[Berzerker2 19]

I have a Saiga 7.62x39 and 223. Was thinking of a quick disconnect type mount where I could move a red dot between the two (yes I am a cheap b*&$ard ). On the topic of the red dot, any suggestions for a decent budget unit? I'm not looking for China T1 clone. I've read some of the Bushnell Trophy models are decent in the $150 price range. Any others?

 

 

I have a Bushnell Trophy on my .308 and I also have another Bushnell I alternate on a couple other rifles or shotgun.

The Bushnell holosight was $169 from Sportsmans Guide and the other one that's pictured on my .308 was $159 frrom Turners Outdoorsman here in Commiefornia

[uzitiger 193]

Get a Russian Kobra sight. They are priced competitively with the Chinese commercial scopes and it's military grade. I like the military reticles or carets better than the dots.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...I like the military reticles or carets better than the dots.

 

I don't. I think a red dot's faster and more natural to use.. just put the dot where you want the hole.

 

ymmv.

Edited August 15, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[BrntWS6 0]

 

 

What type of mount are you using for your red dot? Also, what foregrip is that, looks good.

Edited January 7, 2011 by BrntWS6

[jcmacconnell 25]

Burris TRS-25. Review on Youtube from Nutnfancy. Great optic. I have it mounted on an ultimak rail and no issues with heat....see video below

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTxD_ZJ_lyk

[whitetrashrn 74]

I have been keeping an eye on this thread, as I am interested in a red dot also. I have the BP-02 mount and am interested in a rail mount red dot. Has anyone tried one of the Nayvis 34 Red Dot from kalinka? I have looked for some reviews online and the few I have found were favorable. Some called it a "lightweight kobra" What are some other rail mount red dots I should be willing to consider?

 

I'm watching as well now. I just bought a BP-02 side mount.

 

Previously, I was running a Bushnell TRS-25 on an Ultimak rail. Absolutely loved the combo as I do tons and tons of rapid fire, I melted my rail cover off and the TRS-25 was fine. Last range trip we put probably 400 rounds through the gun in an hour/hour and a half, smoking hot, my brother couldn't even hold the gun anymore it was so hot (I wear gloves when I shoot this one) and the Bushnell has done great.

 

Unfortunately I'm shooting corrosive now, and have to remove the tube to clean the gas block, so Ultimak is a no-go. I am hoping the TRS-25 is good mounted rearwards, but I am afraid it might be too small of a screen to have that far back. If so I'm looking at a Burris Fastfire II as I can't seem to find anything else under $200-250 that looks as good. Hopefully there is, as I'd like something low enough to co-witness as well.

 

+100 I use the Bushnell TRS 25 on an Ultimak rail as well. Co wittness perfect and for $125 from Gander Cant beat it. I was using the Bushnell Holo sight until I tried this. Going to get another maybe 2 at tax time. Nice little Red Dot that I havent heard one bad thing about except for the covers.

[BrntWS6 0]

Just ordered a Vortex Strikefire from Gander Mountain for $138.00 shipped. Use coupon code "GMH0109" and get $20 off and free shipping. Will be $8 cheaper if you don't have to pay tax. Now I just gotta decide on a mount. Either TWS or UTG...don't really care about co-witnessing especially with a quick disconnect. So I'll probably just get the UTG and save $100.