LRBHO Tutorial?

[theplastik 67]

I've been mulling this design in my head for a few months now.

 

I finally had time today to focus on this since all other projects are complete.

I was able to accomplish this with items I purchased months ago at my local home depot and some regular home tools.

 

It's a simple one piece design, and I was wondering if there is an interest in a tutorial for this.

 

It simply replaces the original BHO with a home fabricated LRBHO.

 

If there are no more rounds or no mag, but a shot is fired, the LRBHO will keep the bolt open until another mag (with rounds) is inserted, and the next round is chambered.

 

It also still allows you to use the manual bolt hold open as well as a Bolt Release "button".

 

I'm asking first because:

 

1. I don't want to step on any toes (or patents).

2. I haven't range tested it yet. (Although I'm very, very confident it will work.)

 

Let me know if this post crosses any boundaries and if there is an interest for you Do-It-Yourselfers.

[L5K 162]

I want to see it. I'm all about DIY on the cheap.

 

Also, is your design for a shotgun or rifle?

[theplastik 67]

I want to see it. I'm all about DIY on the cheap.

 

Also, is your design for a shotgun or rifle?

 

S12 Shotgun first.

 

I have a S223 I will try it on also.

 

I'd like to hear from Cadiz to see if they have a problem with it.

If I don't hear from them, I'll probably email tomorrow.

[gregomega 929]

I've been mulling this design in my head for a few months now.

 

I finally had time today to focus on this since all other projects are complete.

I was able to accomplish this with items I purchased months ago at my local home depot and some regular home tools.

 

It's a simple one piece design, and I was wondering if there is an interest in a tutorial for this.

 

It simply replaces the original BHO with a home fabricated LRBHO.

 

If there are no more rounds or no mag, but a shot is fired, the LRBHO will keep the bolt open until another mag (with rounds) is inserted, and the next round is chambered.

 

It also still allows you to use the manual bolt hold open as well as a Bolt Release "button".

 

I'm asking first because:

 

1. I don't want to step on any toes (or patents).

2. I haven't range tested it yet. (Although I'm very, very confident it will work.)

 

Let me know if this post crosses any boundaries and if there is an interest for you Do-It-Yourselfers.

 

Im Interested! I believe the more options the better, as long as it works, can stand the test of time, and like you said, doesnt step on anyones toes or whatever, why not. I agree with L5K, about DIY. It never hurts to pitch it out there.

Edited August 17, 2010 by AZG

[theplastik 67]

I've been mulling this design in my head for a few months now.

 

I finally had time today to focus on this since all other projects are complete.

I was able to accomplish this with items I purchased months ago at my local home depot and some regular home tools.

 

It's a simple one piece design, and I was wondering if there is an interest in a tutorial for this.

 

It simply replaces the original BHO with a home fabricated LRBHO.

 

If there are no more rounds or no mag, but a shot is fired, the LRBHO will keep the bolt open until another mag (with rounds) is inserted, and the next round is chambered.

 

It also still allows you to use the manual bolt hold open as well as a Bolt Release "button".

 

I'm asking first because:

 

1. I don't want to step on any toes (or patents).

2. I haven't range tested it yet. (Although I'm very, very confident it will work.)

 

Let me know if this post crosses any boundaries and if there is an interest for you Do-It-Yourselfers.

 

Im Interested! I believe the more options the better, as long as it works, can stand the test of time, and like you said, doesnt step on anyones toes or whatever, why not. I agree with L5K, about DIY. It never hurts to pitch it out there.

 

I will probably try this on a friends Saiga 7.62 also.

 

Hand cycling, it works. I just have to get to the range.

[nsa400 11]

Go for it. I think thats what this forum is all about. People helping people.

[theplastik 67]

Go for it. I think thats what this forum is all about. People helping people.

 

Here's a sneak peak.

 

I won't post a tutorial until it's proven. So maybe in a week or two I can range test it and make sure its good to go.

 

The downside that I see is that you definitely can NOT load on a closed bolt.

Which, after this mod, doesn't fuckin' matter.

 

 

And yes, there's no firing pin.

So I don't accidentally shoot my foot off.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Plastik

[geepelton 105]

Very interesting, range test it and then go from there!!!

[theplastik 67]

Very interesting, range test it and then go from there!!!

 

After some tweaking, it runs fine hand cycling.

 

So far, here are the features.

 

Pros:

The LRBHO simply replaces the original LRBHO and does not require any other modification to the firearm besides the fabrication of the LRBHO and, of course, removal of the original BHO and spring.

The bolt will hold back after the last round is fired or a round is fired and a mag is not inserted.

It will still allow a manual hold open when pressing up (which is automatic if there is no mag or an empty mag.)

The BHO switch has a tab which, when pressed downward, releases the bolt.

When a new, full mag is inserted, the bolt is released and the first round is chambered. (Depending on your LRBHO's tolerances, this is how mine works.)

 

Cons:

Can not load on a closed bolt.

During disassembly/cleaning the BHO lever must be pressed down to reinstall the bolt.

During empty bolt charging, the LRBHO engages and keeps the bolt back unless the BHO lever is held down.

Metal is simple steel. Not hardened or treated, which makes it a bit more maleable than desired.

 

This is a simple freakin' design.

 

I don't know why no one has really done this before.

My first trail took about an hour.

 

The original design was flawed because the bolt engagement was too far back.

I was worried that, during firing, the bolt would not go back far enough to engage on the last round, especially with low brass.

 

The second design was great, except the engagement was too short and did not always make contact with a new mag/shells.

 

The third design was good, but took much more time for proper fitment.

 

I moved the "hook" forward, which, in turn, eliminates the mess when reinstalling a trigger group. There is no longer an obstruction behind the safety during the safety lever install.

The bolt hold open engagement "hook" is positioned so that the bolt is "Stopped" directly behind the magwell opening.

This idea keeps to the design of engaging as early a possible and also being completely out of the way of new mag/round insertion.

 

To put it simply, the LRBHO has a lever, which when touched by a shell in a mag, keeps the bolt engagement low/inactive.

When there are no shells to engage that lever, the LRBHO, with a spring on it, pushes up and is in a position to engage the bolt and keep it open.

 

I appreciate everyone's interest.

To those who wonder why I don't just mass produce these and sell them, I don't have the time, money, or patience for patents or trying to capitalize on this idea.

I'd rather just share the information and others can do it themselves.

 

Some time this week I will post the measurements and specifications.

I will also be working on a LRBHO with a tutorial for the S223 and S762.

I don't have any other rifles, so sorry to those with other calibers.

I'm sure you could take the info from the tutorials and adapt them to your platform.

[WILLIEVEE 15]

Go for it, but check that it does not infringe on any patents, I've admire you putting it out for every one to benifit. I've orderd one from the vendor V-Vamp and group and am sure it is a great product and there will be a great market for them to reap the rewards. We have set around for years of B.S. for this product from other's (other) with nothing but SMOKE maybe to much. For you to share with members is a plus for you in MHO. It's a mutually benificial exchance of good old American Know How! I'll wait for the other's (other) to comment, more like rants but don't be detered. The forum is a place to share and help, thanks for stepping up and giving the DIY people a insight to your hard work.

[Heath_h49008 442]

You might find this is VERY close to the CGW design... in fact it is almost the exact design they use on the ammo-contact side as I understand it.

[WILLIEVEE 15]

You might find this is VERY close to the CGW design... in fact it is almost the exact design they use on the ammo-contact side as I understand it.

 

Heath, if so ONE needs to becareful of any infringment. It was CGW who had this going for years of R&D as I understand it. How ever not seeing both or even one yet I appreciate your insight also sometimes there is those moments one is shown there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Casp 119]

You might find this is VERY close to the CGW design... in fact it is almost the exact design they use on the ammo-contact side as I understand it.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Haven't seen the CGW design but just from the description I can make a well-educated guess, and it sounds very similar to the CST automatic bolt stop for the Ruger 10/22. Of course that one does take modded magazines, but the idea is the same since you can't work off of the follower on those rotary magazines. Rather than only locking the bolt open when there is an empty magazine in place, it always locks the bolt open unless there is a loaded magazine in place; works off negative-presence-of-cartridge instead of positive-presence-of-follower. Similar, I believe, to how most tube-fed semiauto shotguns do it.

 

Going to go crawl into my foxhole now before the intellectual property war begins.

 

-Kate

[theplastik 67]

You might find this is VERY close to the CGW design... in fact it is almost the exact design they use on the ammo-contact side as I understand it.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Haven't seen the CGW design but just from the description I can make a well-educated guess, and it sounds very similar to the CST automatic bolt stop for the Ruger 10/22. Of course that one does take modded magazines, but the idea is the same since you can't work off of the follower on those rotary magazines. Rather than only locking the bolt open when there is an empty magazine in place, it always locks the bolt open unless there is a loaded magazine in place; works off negative-presence-of-cartridge instead of positive-presence-of-follower. Similar, I believe, to how most tube-fed semiauto shotguns do it.

 

Going to go crawl into my foxhole now before the intellectual property war begins.

 

-Kate

 

The main reason I decided to share despite the similarity to CGW's design is that it is mentioned that something must be milled or dremeled into the receiver for operation of their device.

 

Mine does not require any of that. But either way, I will have to wait to see if the designs are identical or not.

 

It is considered patent infringement to share or even use my design if it is identical to theirs.

It is also an infringement if I share the design and they are identical, BEFORE their patent is approved.

 

I suppose we will have to wait and see.

 

Sorry DIY guys.

 

Thanks for all the input and messages.

As soon as I posted this it was like I found the holy grail.

It's too bad I may never get to share it.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Plastik

[gregomega 929]

I've been mulling this design in my head for a few months now.

 

I finally had time today to focus on this since all other projects are complete.

I was able to accomplish this with items I purchased months ago at my local home depot and some regular home tools.

 

It's a simple one piece design, and I was wondering if there is an interest in a tutorial for this.

 

It simply replaces the original BHO with a home fabricated LRBHO.

 

If there are no more rounds or no mag, but a shot is fired, the LRBHO will keep the bolt open until another mag (with rounds) is inserted, and the next round is chambered.

 

It also still allows you to use the manual bolt hold open as well as a Bolt Release "button".

 

I'm asking first because:

 

1. I don't want to step on any toes (or patents).

2. I haven't range tested it yet. (Although I'm very, very confident it will work.)

 

Let me know if this post crosses any boundaries and if there is an interest for you Do-It-Yourselfers.

 

Im Interested! I believe the more options the better, as long as it works, can stand the test of time, and like you said, doesnt step on anyones toes or whatever, why not. I agree with L5K, about DIY. It never hurts to pitch it out there.

 

I will probably try this on a friends Saiga 7.62 also.

 

Hand cycling, it works. I just have to get to the range.

 

Well I hope it does work out for you. Ill be waiting to see

[cvhanh20 1,052]

I say go for it! We need options, right! Who knows, you might even make dollar or two off it.

[theplastik 67]

I say go for it! We need options, right! Who knows, you might even make dollar or two off it.

 

Haha, that'd be nice, but I doubt it.

 

The biggest reason I want to make a tutorial instead of selling is because there would be too many complaints.

 

Everyone's variances are different and I don't think having one spec would work for every S12.

 

As worried as I am about the design infringing upon a patent, I'll still release a tutorial.

There's a fairly small chance of having exactly the same design.

 

Although, this will not cater to everyone.

It's primarily for the home fabricator.

 

I have class the next 3 days, after that I'll be focusing heavily on getting this tutorial out there.

 

I'm going to come up with a more refined design and am going to redo the whole process so I can document it all in photos.

[VanKiller 322]

I never did see a PM , but just for the record , my patent was filed and this design is covered by it.

 

My first customer S-12's are shipping out this week.

[theplastik 67]

I never did see a PM , but just for the record , my patent was filed and this design is covered by it.

 

My first customer S-12's are shipping out this week.

 

So releasing my design for a tutorial is patent infringement?

What about on a 7.62?

[Casp 119]

I am kind of surprised that there is no conflict with the CST patent for the 10/22 version.

[Deussne 38]

I never did see a PM , but just for the record , my patent was filed and this design is covered by it.

 

My first customer S-12's are shipping out this week.

 

 

Since you filed the patent what is the Patent number? I searched all of the applications and approved patents and can't find anything.

[TR Young 175]

I never did see a PM , but just for the record , my patent was filed and this design is covered by it.

 

My first customer S-12's are shipping out this week.

 

So releasing my design for a tutorial is patent infringement?

What about on a 7.62?

As long as you aren't charging a fee, I believe that you are ok.

[MikeD 541]

A patent more protects the method rather than the exact design. Just because something isn't an exact copy doesn't mean you aren't infringing on a patent. I had heard before that as long as you didn't sell what you copied that you wasn't infringing on a patent. I have found out that that is 100% false. If Tom gets the protection any copy will be infringment. It doesn't matter if the copy was made before the patent was issued or not. It looks like Tom has this one wrapped up. Infringment can be quite nasty...

[theplastik 67]

A patent more protects the method rather than the exact design. Just because something isn't an exact copy doesn't mean you aren't infringing on a patent. I had heard before that as long as you didn't sell what you copied that you wasn't infringing on a patent. I have found out that that is 100% false. If Tom gets the protection any copy will be infringment. It doesn't matter if the copy was made before the patent was issued or not. It looks like Tom has this one wrapped up. Infringment can be quite nasty...

 

^ Kind of what I have been thinking.

 

I have been reading that if I show people how to manufacture this product, that every time someone makes one, it is an infringement by me since the designs are so similar.

 

Oh well, sorry guys.

[TR Young 175]

A patent more protects the method rather than the exact design. Just because something isn't an exact copy doesn't mean you aren't infringing on a patent. I had heard before that as long as you didn't sell what you copied that you wasn't infringing on a patent. I have found out that that is 100% false....

That's what I had heard as well. Thanks for clearing that up!

[cvhanh20 1,052]

A patent more protects the method rather than the exact design. Just because something isn't an exact copy doesn't mean you aren't infringing on a patent. I had heard before that as long as you didn't sell what you copied that you wasn't infringing on a patent. I have found out that that is 100% false. If Tom gets the protection any copy will be infringement. It doesn't matter if the copy was made before the patent was issued or not. It looks like Tom has this one wrapped up. Infringment can be quite nasty...

 

^ Kind of what I have been thinking.

 

I have been reading that if I show people how to manufacture this product, that every time someone makes one, it is an infringement by me since the designs are so similar.

 

Oh well, sorry guys.

Depends on the patent you file for,

 

 

* Utility Patent- Issued for the invention of a new and

useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of

matter, or a new and useful improvement thereof, it

generally permits its owner to exclude others from

making, using, or selling the invention for a period of

up to twenty years from the date of patent application

filing ++, subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

Approximately 90% of the patent documents issued by the

PTO in recent years have been utility patents, also

referred to as "patents for invention."

 

* Design Patent- Issued for a new, original, and

ornamental design for an article of manufacture, it

permits its owner to exclude others from making, using,

or selling the design for a period of fourteen years

from the date of patent grant. Design patents are not

subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

 

* Plant Patent- Issued for a new and distinct, invented

or discovered asexually reproduced plant including

cultivated sports, mutants, hybrids, and newly found

seedlings, other than a tuber propagated plant or a

plant found in an uncultivated state, it permits its

owner to exclude others from making, using, or selling

the plant for a period of up to twenty years from the

date of patent application filing ++. Plant patents

are not subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

 

 

I myself have pulled several Patent Pending and Trademarks so I know the process fairly well, it's not rocket science but can be a royal pain in the ass!Patent Pending only protect you for 12 mos. after that you better have your shit filled in full, or it's gone forever! If someone has a real claim to something there will be no problem showing proof of that claim, kinda like when I posted a pic of my Registered Trademark for Chaos.

And if someone has pics of something they've made at home they can post all the pics they want of it! One offs are not going to infringe on anything or anyone. This guy has the right to post his work on this forum the same as anyone else, past, current, or future. I'm not endorsing copying someone else's work then showing it, but to the best of my understanding, no one has even seen Tom's design, so that would be a hell of a feat, to copy something no one has seen. Now, if Tom has released pics and this is a copy, well that would be a horse of a different color. But this guy claims his requires no alteration to weapon, so I don't see how it would be the same. So I would say he is free to post if he so decides to.

[MikeD 541]

A patent more protects the method rather than the exact design. Just because something isn't an exact copy doesn't mean you aren't infringing on a patent. I had heard before that as long as you didn't sell what you copied that you wasn't infringing on a patent. I have found out that that is 100% false. If Tom gets the protection any copy will be infringement. It doesn't matter if the copy was made before the patent was issued or not. It looks like Tom has this one wrapped up. Infringment can be quite nasty...

 

^ Kind of what I have been thinking.

 

I have been reading that if I show people how to manufacture this product, that every time someone makes one, it is an infringement by me since the designs are so similar.

 

Oh well, sorry guys.

Depends on the patent you file for,

 

 

* Utility Patent- Issued for the invention of a new and

useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of

matter, or a new and useful improvement thereof, it

generally permits its owner to exclude others from

making, using, or selling the invention for a period of

up to twenty years from the date of patent application

filing ++, subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

Approximately 90% of the patent documents issued by the

PTO in recent years have been utility patents, also

referred to as "patents for invention."

 

* Design Patent- Issued for a new, original, and

ornamental design for an article of manufacture, it

permits its owner to exclude others from making, using,

or selling the design for a period of fourteen years

from the date of patent grant. Design patents are not

subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

 

* Plant Patent- Issued for a new and distinct, invented

or discovered asexually reproduced plant including

cultivated sports, mutants, hybrids, and newly found

seedlings, other than a tuber propagated plant or a

plant found in an uncultivated state, it permits its

owner to exclude others from making, using, or selling

the plant for a period of up to twenty years from the

date of patent application filing ++. Plant patents

are not subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

 

 

I myself have pulled several Patent Pending and Trademarks so I know the process fairly well, it's not rocket science but can be a royal pain in the ass!Patent Pending only protect you for 12 mos. after that you better have your shit filled in full, or it's gone forever! If someone has a real claim to something there will be no problem showing proof of that claim, kinda like when I posted a pic of my Registered Trademark for Chaos.

And if someone has pics of something they've made at home they can post all the pics they want of it! One offs are not going to infringe on anything or anyone. This guy has the right to post his work on this forum the same as anyone else, past, current, or future. I'm not endorsing copying someone else's work then showing it, but to the best of my understanding, no one has even seen Tom's design, so that would be a hell of a feat, to copy something no one has seen. Now, if Tom has released pics and this is a copy, well that would be a horse of a different color. But this guy claims his requires no alteration to weapon, so I don't see how it would be the same. So I would say he is free to post if he so decides to.

Cameron, The firm of patent attorneys I've been working with say other wise on some of this. For instance a patent app can be hidden for 18 months and no one will ever find it. That is why no one is finding our double stack if they are looking, it a form of protection... And the government just might decide a patent needs to remain hidden from public access depending on the technology involved and sensitivity of such.

 

And it really doesn't matter is someone has seen something or not, infringement is infringement. Negligence is no excuse.

 

A patent is protected by claims. The claims are the actual patent. If you can eliminate a claim you can get around a patent. If you have the same claims or add a claim it is infringement.

 

I'm not saying simply posting pics of his design is infringement. I do not know the answer on that one. What I am say is ANYONE that makes, sells, or uses one will be infringing with chance of an open shut case with no chance of defense, if Tom is awarded the patent... Doesn't matter if they made it during the patent process or not.

 

Something interesting on the Patent Pending... Yes, if you don't follow through with a true patent with in a year it is gone forever. And you no longer can mark or advertise your product as patent pending. And if you do, ANYBODY can sue you for doing so. They don't have to have a reason other than you are doing it. The federal government gets a cut of the settlement, imagine that... I know this to be fact. Does this make you think of anybody in particular? As far as I can tell Alliance was never awarded a patent for their drum or for their gas system. They have been selling them for well over a year and as far as I know both are still advertised and marked as patent pending... Lawsuit anyone??? It would be an open shut case for you... Put those scum bags out of business...

 

I am not claiming to know anything about patents because I don't. Simply to much to know and that is why there are whole firms of patent lawyers in business and that is why I hired one of these firms for my work. To many technicalities. Many think they know but when it comes down to it unless they went to school for it and then followed up with years and years of everyday hands on experience doing the trade I am willing to bet 999 out of 1000 know next to nothing. People that right their own patent papers get screwed out of them more often than not a some super simple to avoid technicality. Yes, most self writers don't have problems but that is probably only because they have never had to take them to court. Yes, someone might figure out how to turn on a mill and cut a hole in a piece of metal, does that make them a competent machinist or toolmaker? Hell no, that take years of personal experience. Maybe their hole will work. Maybe their first 5 holes will work... But more then likely, eventually someone experienced is going to show them how they screwed the what seemed to be perfect hole up...

[David Mark 2,452]

I was told once by a client of mine who holds several patents on medical devises that a patent is only as good as the patent holders willingness to enforce it.

 

In this case. Tom would have to sue Plastik to enforce his patent, if Plastik were to post this info.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[cvhanh20 1,052]

A patent more protects the method rather than the exact design. Just because something isn't an exact copy doesn't mean you aren't infringing on a patent. I had heard before that as long as you didn't sell what you copied that you wasn't infringing on a patent. I have found out that that is 100% false. If Tom gets the protection any copy will be infringement. It doesn't matter if the copy was made before the patent was issued or not. It looks like Tom has this one wrapped up. Infringment can be quite nasty...

 

^ Kind of what I have been thinking.

 

I have been reading that if I show people how to manufacture this product, that every time someone makes one, it is an infringement by me since the designs are so similar.

 

Oh well, sorry guys.

Depends on the patent you file for,

 

 

* Utility Patent- Issued for the invention of a new and

useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of

matter, or a new and useful improvement thereof, it

generally permits its owner to exclude others from

making, using, or selling the invention for a period of

up to twenty years from the date of patent application

filing ++, subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

Approximately 90% of the patent documents issued by the

PTO in recent years have been utility patents, also

referred to as "patents for invention."

 

* Design Patent- Issued for a new, original, and

ornamental design for an article of manufacture, it

permits its owner to exclude others from making, using,

or selling the design for a period of fourteen years

from the date of patent grant. Design patents are not

subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

 

* Plant Patent- Issued for a new and distinct, invented

or discovered asexually reproduced plant including

cultivated sports, mutants, hybrids, and newly found

seedlings, other than a tuber propagated plant or a

plant found in an uncultivated state, it permits its

owner to exclude others from making, using, or selling

the plant for a period of up to twenty years from the

date of patent application filing ++. Plant patents

are not subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

 

 

I myself have pulled several Patent Pending and Trademarks so I know the process fairly well, it's not rocket science but can be a royal pain in the ass!Patent Pending only protect you for 12 mos. after that you better have your shit filled in full, or it's gone forever! If someone has a real claim to something there will be no problem showing proof of that claim, kinda like when I posted a pic of my Registered Trademark for Chaos.

And if someone has pics of something they've made at home they can post all the pics they want of it! One offs are not going to infringe on anything or anyone. This guy has the right to post his work on this forum the same as anyone else, past, current, or future. I'm not endorsing copying someone else's work then showing it, but to the best of my understanding, no one has even seen Tom's design, so that would be a hell of a feat, to copy something no one has seen. Now, if Tom has released pics and this is a copy, well that would be a horse of a different color. But this guy claims his requires no alteration to weapon, so I don't see how it would be the same. So I would say he is free to post if he so decides to.

Cameron, The firm of patent attorneys I've been working with say other wise on some of this. For instance a patent app can be hidden for 18 months and no one will ever find it. That is why no one is finding our double stack if they are looking, it a form of protection... And the government just might decide a patent needs to remain hidden from public access depending on the technology involved and sensitivity of such.

 

And it really doesn't matter is someone has seen something or not, infringement is infringement. Negligence is no excuse.

 

A patent is protected by claims. The claims are the actual patent. If you can eliminate a claim you can get around a patent. If you have the same claims or add a claim it is infringement.

 

I'm not saying simply posting pics of his design is infringement. I do not know the answer on that one. What I am say is ANYONE that makes, sells, or uses one will be infringing with chance of an open shut case with no chance of defense, if Tom is awarded the patent... Doesn't matter if they made it during the patent process or not.

 

Something interesting on the Patent Pending... Yes, if you don't follow through with a true patent with in a year it is gone forever. And you no longer can mark or advertise your product as patent pending. And if you do, ANYBODY can sue you for doing so. They don't have to have a reason other than you are doing it. The federal government gets a cut of the settlement, imagine that... I know this to be fact. Does this make you think of anybody in particular? As far as I can tell Alliance was never awarded a patent for their drum or for their gas system. They have been selling them for well over a year and as far as I know both are still advertised and marked as patent pending... Lawsuit anyone??? It would be an open shut case for you... Put those scum bags out of business...

 

I am not claiming to know anything about patents because I don't. Simply to much to know and that is why there are whole firms of patent lawyers in business and that is why I hired one of these firms for my work. To many technicalities. Many think they know but when it comes down to it unless they went to school for it and then followed up with years and years of everyday hands on experience doing the trade I am willing to bet 999 out of 1000 know next to nothing. People that right their own patent papers get screwed out of them more often than not a some super simple to avoid technicality. Yes, most self writers don't have problems but that is probably only because they have never had to take them to court. Yes, someone might figure out how to turn on a mill and cut a hole in a piece of metal, does that make them a competent machinist or toolmaker? Hell no, that take years of personal experience. Maybe their hole will work. Maybe their first 5 holes will work... But more then likely, eventually someone experienced is going to show them how they screwed the what seemed to be perfect hole up...

Its wide doorway, when people start ranting about patents and trademarks until they have that little paper in their hands and doesn't matter, the guy isn't saying hes manufacturing them. Anyone can sue anyone in this country, for anything. If I have an idea thats pops into my head and I feel like putting out there, I will! This guy showing something his made at home, a one off doesn't warrant all this discloser. In the end it will be up to this guy if he will post it and up to Tom if he feels it violates his rights, as you and I have no dog in this fight!

[gregomega 929]

well dadgum it! was really looking forward to learning something new.