Out of the box-Won't cycle.

[rdavis30 1]

Let me start by stating that I have saved and starved since early May to afford this weapon. I picked it up last night. I went to shoot it today and I was throughly disappointed/depressed, however I will remain optimistic as I have wanted one of these for a long time and now I have one.

 

The Story:

 

This morning I broke down the S12 and cleaned (using RemOil) the bolt/carrier, the "gas puck" (little short cylinder behind selector), the dustcover, the spring thing that goes behind the bolt, and the barrel(in/out), and the inside of the gas cylinder/tube). I also oiled the grooves that the bolt carrier rides with a milspec oil. Today I was using winchester shortbrass 8 weights-Not one cycled no matter if I was on "1" or "2". I brought 5 00buck with me and 5 3" turkey just in case. The 00 Buck cycled once (I switched from 1 and 2 half way through the 00). The 3" turkey cycled every time (on 1 &2). I am so flustered right now I forgot what 1 and 2 are used for. Again this is out-of-the-box with no MODs of any kind. The weapon is NOT converted. It is "Russian American Armory - Scottsburg, IN."

 

Please inform.

 

Convinced I just wasted a month and a half's pay...

Rich-PDP

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Nah, most are a bit buggy out-of-the-box, but after you cycle it a few hundred times, it should begin working correctly.

 

Start by pulling the puck and checking the gas ports with a bent paperclip, count how many you have and determine whether any are obstructed or not...

 

I had to back my gas plug out one full turn from bottomed out to get mine to run correctly. Now I have a V-plug from MDarms and it has really helped my undergassed gun.

 

If you want, you could get some brake fluid in a bucket and submerge the bottom of your bolt carrier in it for a few minutes. The brake fluid should loosen up the paint so that you can easily wipe it off. This will help a bit with the drag that the bolt has to overcome to cycle the weapon.

 

Run at least a few hundred rounds of 00Buck (the highest feet per second you can find) through it before you write it off. If it still doesn't cycle correctly after all of this, get in touch with Cadiz Gun Works and they'll fix it for free!

[rdavis30 1]

 

Run at least a few hundred rounds of 00Buck (the highest feet per second you can find) through it before you write it off. If it still doesn't cycle correctly after all of this, get in touch with Cadiz Gun Works and they'll fix it for free!

 

... A few HUNDRED rounds of 00Buck is a little out of my price range... But if that is the case then I will most likely be attempting to contact RAA and see if they will accept a return (If they do I know i'll lose money on it but what ever.) How do I measure the gas holes???

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

 

Run at least a few hundred rounds of 00Buck (the highest feet per second you can find) through it before you write it off. If it still doesn't cycle correctly after all of this, get in touch with Cadiz Gun Works and they'll fix it for free!

 

... A few HUNDRED rounds of 00Buck is a little out of my price range... But if that is the case then I will most likely be attempting to contact RAA and see if they will accept a return (If they do I know i'll lose money on it but what ever.) How do I measure the gas holes???

 

Hey, I'm right there with ya, it took me a few months to break my S-12 in but you need to run whatever ammo the gun will cycle through it numerous times so that the parts will wear to each other properly, it's like running in the cam on a new engine...

 

Some have just sat in front of their TV's and ran the charging handle a few hundred times and that seemed to work...

[hobbyshooter 59]

RAA or Cadiz will set it up free of charge.

 

You haven't wasted your money, just hit a bump in the road. Call Cadiz.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=73

[Spartacus 1,619]

Today I was using winchester shortbrass 8 weights-Not one cycled no matter if I was on "1" or "2".

 

Everything sounds normal so far.

 

Winchester birdshot will not cycle the stock S-12 (and probably many semi-autos).

Get yourself a $20 100rnd box of Federal 7 1/2 from Walmart and try again with the gas setting on #2.

 

Edit: Some of the watered down low-recoil 00 Buck stuff doesn't cycle very well either.

Use Federal target/birdshot and no low-recoil stuff and then see how it runs.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Spartacus

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

First things first...

Check the gas ports, are they clear, and how many.

 

Vodka Special:

Misaligned gas block covering/partially covering gas port(s)

Too few or too small of gas port(s), 1, 2, 3 or 4 ports?

You can roughly check the size of the gas ports by using appropriately sized (gauge) wire, just like you'd use a paper clip/dental tool to check them.

 

If there is a problem with these, or another qualifying issue, you need to send it in for warranty repair.

.....................................................

[rdavis30 1]

I am glad you guys are trying to help me! I think I will try and break it first and then I'll call Cadiz or Warranty

 

I STILL do not know how many gas holes there are or where exactly they are (New to AK style weapons.

[Bridis 319]

If you get to the point where you want to give up, pm me. I'm interested in buying another saiga.

[rdavis30 1]

If you get to the point where you want to give up, pm me. I'm interested in buying another saiga.

 

 

If that is the case it will not be for a while-I totally forgot about the break-in period...

 

 

[Stansplace 414]

I am glad you guys are trying to help me! I think I will try and break it first and then I'll call Cadiz or Warranty

 

I STILL do not know how many gas holes there are or where exactly they are (New to AK style weapons.

 

You can do that, but a large portion of these are squirrelly out of the box. Mine was at first. You really need to take the gas plug and puck out and use a paperclip to determine how many holes you have and if they are all uncovered. That is your first step. If all of the holes are good to go, then you need to sit in front of the TV with it and cycle it by hand until your arm gets tired. Lube it up and then do it again for awhile. Then you can go get some Federal bulk pack. 71/2 shot for 21-23 bucks a 100 at wally world. The winchester sucks. Start out on setting 2 with the Federal, if it still won't cycle back the plug out 1 complete turn to setting 2 again. The key is to break her in. The only way to do that is cycles, cycles, cycles. Be sure you are using your factory 5 round magazine to eliminate any mag problems

 

Also just so you know, this weapon is not designed to run bird shot. It is designed to run the high power stuff. The low powered stuff is just for shits and giggles.

 

If you still can't get it to cycle right and the gas holes/block is good to go, you may want to contact Cadiz for warranty work. This is where I was, but I got my dremel out and went to work. And then, and then, and then, etc.............

 

Keep us posted and we will help you out. In no time at all stuff from CSS will start showing up at your door for no reason before you order it and you will be doing this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qcFe2CRieM

 

 

and this

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNH9PBTOgqw

 

 

with a big stupid grin on your face. Well you get the point.

[rdavis30 1]

Okay I have 3 holes in the barrel and three holes showing on top... now to find a wire to check if they are clear...

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

A paper clip works great.

Edited October 22, 2010 by ChileRelleno

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Like someone else mentioned, have a seat, open a beer and light up a smoke. Then proceed to cycle the action about a thousand times by hand, to help loosen her up some, use lube where you see contact points. I'd use the non dominant extremity, it helps even out the muscles to the chicken choking arm.

 

Every little bit helps.

[2armor 19]

Dont be too upset... it is frustrating to pay that kinda $$$ and get these results straight out of the box.

It just needs some tweaking and TLC- most of wich wont cost you anything if your somewhat mechanically inclinded and have acces to some basic tools. Do alot of searching, reading, and self education on this forum and you will find many ways to solve these problems. These gas operated shotgun follow a very simple cycle of operation principle as all the other AK varients. These failures to operate are pretty common with the crude quality and fitting of these S12s. Break-in is important but making sure the gas system is proper and parts are fitting correctly is key. Once the gas system is venting the pressures you desire, then debur and polish. Prefeably with jewlers files, dremels, india stones, etc.

 

 

[dbmccart 11]

Today I was using winchester shortbrass 8 weights-Not one cycled no matter if I was on "1" or "2".

 

Everything sounds normal so far.

 

Winchester birdshot will not cycle the stock S-12 (and probably many semi-autos).

Get yourself a $20 100rnd box of Federal 7 1/2 from Walmart and try again with the gas setting on #2.

 

Edit: Some of the watered down low-recoil 00 Buck stuff doesn't cycle very well either.

Use Federal target/birdshot and no low-recoil stuff and then see how it runs.

 

Mine cycled Wincester birdshot out of the box brand new. The clean up was rather messy, so I usually run birdshot its Remington. It runs extremely clean in my Saiga 12 even after 100 rounds the gun will be fairly clean. Idk about your past experiences but my Saiga 12 has not jammed 1 time on me ever and yes I do cycle Magnum loads in it as well. Infact my Saiga is usually loaded with 3" 00 Buck.

[2armor 19]

Rich- Check out this thread http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=55377

 

eric outline some of his remedy methods to fix similar issues. Good thread and he took the time to put some good picts.

 

Im new to the S12 but not to AKs. I think S12 will become one of if not my favorite after the convert is complete. Good luck!

[rdavis30 1]

UPDATE:

 

I used a small Allen wrench to check the wholes and I think that one of my 3 holes is partially covered. (the other 2 holes cleared but this one didn't and when I looked closer I saw it may be covered by the puck's tube)

[saigaguy09 3]

I pounded my gas block off last week with a 4LB hammer to drill a 3rd 3/32 port. In a partially blocked 24" 2 porter with a little under 5 thousand rounds through her. Trust me this bitch was fully broken in. It would fail-to-eject Wal-Mart federal 2-3/4" 100rd value pack intermittently simply because it was undergassed. Vice-Versa I have had Mao-Mart 2-3/4" 1oz Winchester slugs fail-to-feed because I had my Gunfixer Gas plug wide open. Know your weapon, is it overgassed or undergassed. Mechanical friction- is their a retarted amount of friction when you rack the bolt?

[Mullet Man 2,114]

To find the gas ports, unscrew your gas regulator (round selector with 1 and 2 marked on it) all the way and remove it, then remove the "gas puck".

You'll be able to see a circular "window" at the bottom just inside the threads. there will be some gas ports (tiny little holes) inside this window coming from the barrel. Depending on barrel length an date of manufacture (it appears), you could have 2, 3 or 4 ports at different sizes. Sometimes that window will obstruct a port or two. Sometimes you'll have the correct number of ports but they'll be the wrong size. Sometimes it'll be the wrong number of ports at the right size. Its really a toss up of what you're gonna get.

Barrel lengths seems to be the biggest factor as to what size and how many gas ports your gun needs. Most common for a 19" S12 is 3 ports in a triangle, with each port at .093".

 

Edit; I type slow, see above responses before mine

Edited October 22, 2010 by Mullet Man

[2armor 19]

Here the other one on "vodka specials".. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=38153&hl=vodka

 

[msrdiver 42]

I sent you a message about checking the gas ports. Here is Ninerider's photo tutorial that I followed.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=51183

 

 

If you live close enough to Saint Louis, Missouri, lemme know and I'll help you in person.

[psl sniper 963]

try running some federal gameshock low brass, it has a little more oomph than the winchester and its cheaper. most stock saigas will not run winchester bulk (even when broken in)

[rdavis30 1]

I am at a stand still ATM because it seems that winchester 8's are crap... I will be going to the Walmart to get Federal 7-1/2 (I think lol).

 

So - so far we have:

 

I was able to get a small Allen wrench in two holes but not the third (3 hole system).

I believe that one of the three holes is partially obstructed by the gas block.

(see above about using different ammo)

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

I am at a stand still ATM because it seems that winchester 8's are crap... I will be going to the Walmart to get Federal 7-1/2 (I think lol).

 

So - so far we have:

 

I was able to get a small Allen wrench in two holes but not the third (3 hole system).

I believe that one of the three holes is partially obstructed by the gas block.

(see above about using different ammo)

If I was you, I'd contact Cadiz and see if they want to do it as warranty.

 

Let Cadiz have it for awhile and it'll come back ready to rock-n-roll.

[kresk 10,063]

RemOil is shit--too thin--no good.

[rdavis30 1]

RemOil is shit--too thin--no good.

 

For what purpose? I was simply using it as a cleaner I use a milspec oil for lubrication. Do you suggest a different oil?

[psl sniper 963]

well for my truck i use 10w 30......oh! for youre saiga! () . i use hoppes gun oil, its worked like a dream so far.

[zenman223 460]

well for my truck i use 10w 30......oh! for youre saiga! () . i use hoppes gun oil, its worked like a dream so far.

 

 

actually alot of people use FULL synthetic motor oil on their guns. I havent personally but thats b/c i havent ran out of my Hilti gun oil yet. when i do im gonna get some 10w-30! if you think about it it makes sense. its designed for high heat, longevity, high viscosity etc. alot of people swear by it for lubricant. hoppes is good too, its what i was raised up on!

 

as far as the OP, you should deff. try to run some high brass through it but if one of the ports is partially covered you really need to contact Cadiz about getting it fixed UNDER WARRANTY, FOR FREE! you cant beat that! or you could do like alot of people who are DIYer's and open the ports yourself. but remember once you convert the gun the warranty is void.

Edited October 22, 2010 by big-J

[psl sniper 963]

well for my truck i use 10w 30......oh! for youre saiga! () . i use hoppes gun oil, its worked like a dream so far.

 

 

actually alot of people use FULL synthetic motor oil on their guns. I havent personally but thats b/c i havent ran out of my Hilti gun oil yet. when i do im gonna get some 10w-30! if you think about it it makes sense. its designed for high heat, longevity, high viscosity etc. alot of people swear by it for lubricant. hoppes is good too, its what i was raised up on!

 

as far as the OP, you should deff. try to run some high brass through it but if one of the ports is partially covered you really need to contact Cadiz about getting it fixed UNDER WARRANTY, FOR FREE! you cant beat that! or you could do like alot of people who are DIYer's and open the ports yourself. but remember once you convert the gun the warranty is void.

yes i kow people who use the motor oil. thats why i made the lame ass atempt at humor.