Hexus535 14 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hello everyone, I hope all is well. I'm sure that more than a few of you took one look at this thread's title and thought "Oh boy. Here comes a shitstorm". Well, sorry to disappoint you, but this thread is an independent review concerning the installation and use of the MSA AR15 Magazine Adapter. I am in no way, shape or form promoting or advertising for MSA. This thread would be no different than if I just purchased a new buttstock or FCG or renegadebuck's adapter and did a review on it with pics. I have no intention of starting a flamewar, I just thought we can have an informative thread and discussion on this invaluable addition to a Saiga .223 rifle. I know there are a few people out there still on the fence (like I was about 2 months ago) about getting this adapter and I wanted show what its all about. First off, Why? Why would anyone want to bastardize their rifle to accept other rifle's magazines? The short answer is availability. I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm sure you would agree with me that there are a hell of alot more manufacturer's of AR mags out there than .223 AK style mags. Also, the AR platform is probably the most popular "black rifle" in the USA. These two facts alone suggest that, in a SHTF scenario, you'd be much more likely to stumble across an AR magazine than a .223 AK mag. Also, alot of people who own a Saiga .223 already own an AR (like me) or plan to. That means you have two completely different weapons that take the same ammo (widely available here) and magazines. Another major pro to this adapter is that the magazines "Drop Free" and the need for a bullet guide is non-existent (unless you want to pop out the adapter and switch to .223 AK mags). Also, on the whole, AR15 mags are cheaper than .223 AK mags (the 3 weiger mag's I have cost me close to 100$). Those are some of the reasons I chose to go with an adapter. Now, to the meat of this post.... This pic is of my Saiga (uncompleted at this point, still waiting for someone to have an AK104 FSB to slap on there and considering either the new Texas Weapons Systems top cover or Tech Sights). As you can see, the adapter looks pretty sweet on the underside of the receiver (at least I think so). This is a close up of the left side, showcaseing the release mechanism arm. This is a close up of the right side, showing where you would use your index finger to release the mag (if you are right-handed). This is a shot of what the Adapter looks like in, with a shot looking down into the receiver. This is a shot of what the receiver looks like with the adapter removed. As per the included instructions, you need to mill down to a depth of .89" from the outside of the receiver straight down. Sorry, some of the pictures are a little blurry (too shakey, I need to lay off the coffee) This is a good shot of how much material needs to be removed from the two "nubs" on the inside of the trunnion. Like I said above, you need to go down .89" and you need to widen it to just at the rivet (about .96" across). Then, if all is well, you should see that the metal you removed creates a "shelf" that is inline with the underside of the bolt's guide rails. And thats just about it. I made sure I took my time, started off doing the dimensions specified and then went in with a file for the final fitting. Snapped right in place, no problems. I removed it and put my Weigers and bullet guide back in to make sure they still fit and fed. No problems there either. I plan on polishing the inside walls of the adapter and to grind a bevel along the inside lip of the adapter to aid in mag insertion. I hope this report was helpful to someone looking to expand the functionality of their Saiga .223. 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swells08 128 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Great install pics...have you gotten to fire drop reload fire test it? Looks like a bang up job on the milling. Great write up. I see you mention polishing the magwell and beveling the edges...is this because the mags you are using are not plugging in with enough ease? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hexus535 14 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Great install pics...have you gotten to fire drop reload fire test it? Looks like a bang up job on the milling. Great write up. I see you mention polishing the magwell and beveling the edges...is this because the mags you are using are not plugging in with enough ease? Hey Dj Big Dog, Haven't actually fired it yet, only hand cycling dummy rounds. I mentioned polishing the inside and beveling the edges because i figure it would better insertion. Right now its a little tight and I don't have any GI mags laying around to "wear it in", so my dremel will do that for me... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hexus.. Very nice pictures.. Nice to show the actual depth from the bottom also.. Al Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hexus535 14 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hexus.. Very nice pictures.. Nice to show the actual depth from the bottom also.. Al Thanks! I figured there wasn't enough picture threads showing this because of all the stigma surrounding this particular product, but I just wanted to show that it's not vaporware. It functions just fine. I think it was purposefully built to be tight so it will gradually loosen over time, but I can't wait that long. I figured if anyone was still interested in doing this adapter, A few pics and an independent review couldn't hurt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dudethebagman 222 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hello everyone, I hope all is well. I'm sure that more than a few of you took one look at this thread's title and thought "Oh boy. Here comes a shitstorm". Well, sorry to disappoint you, but... Ha! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Geat review. Very refreshing seeing a thread about these with nothing but positive posts and actual facts. Your description of how easy it was to install is right on. It can be done with just a dremel if care is used not to heat up the steel too much by burning away with a sanding drum or grinder in the same little spot for too long. Using a mill is definitely the way to go if one has the means though. Makes it a very simple job indeed. One thing I would like to add about the way the P mag fit's slightly snug in the well. Recently this topic was brought up by someone else and I also mentioned there, since the P mag is synthetic, the mags can very slightly in dimensions from one run to the next, like any synthetic mag. The metal AR mags fit a lot easier and drop free with no problem. Just be sure and replace the crappy followers in the GI mags with Magpul followers. That's the reason the P mag was suggested for use with this product, they are the most reliable out of the package. The P mags will eventually wear in and become much easier to use. It's not that they are difficult at all, they just don't fall right out of the well like the metal ones do. Being synthetic also makes them easier to fit if you actually want them to drop free. Just a little sanding and polishing on the mag bodies instead of the adapter will make them drop free without having to wait for them to loosen up on their on. The reason the well isn't beveled at the bottom is, the metal mags that most people have laying around do fit looser so they need the side support they get from an unbeveled magwell. I hope you were able to get the product in a timely fashion after first placing your order. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hexus535 14 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Geat review. Very refreshing seeing a thread about these with nothing but positive posts and actual facts. Your description of how easy it was to install is right on. It can be done with just a dremel if care is used not to heat up the steel too much by burning away with a sanding drum or grinder in the same little spot for too long. Using a mill is definitely the way to go if one has the means though. Makes it a very simple job indeed. One thing I would like to add about the way the P mag fit's slightly snug in the well. Recently this topic was brought up by someone else and I also mentioned there, since the P mag is synthetic, the mags can very slightly in dimensions from one run to the next, like any synthetic mag. The metal AR mags fit a lot easier and drop free with no problem. Just be sure and replace the crappy followers in the GI mags with Magpul followers. That's the reason the P mag was suggested for use with this product, they are the most reliable out of the package. The P mags will eventually wear in and become much easier to use. It's not that they are difficult at all, they just don't fall right out of the well like the metal ones do. Being synthetic also makes them easier to fit if you actually want them to drop free. Just a little sanding and polishing on the mag bodies instead of the adapter will make them drop free without having to wait for them to loosen up on their on. The reason the well isn't beveled at the bottom is, the metal mags that most people have laying around do fit looser so they need the side support they get from an unbeveled magwell. I hope you were able to get the product in a timely fashion after first placing your order. Cobra, I haven't tried metal mags yet because I only have PMAGs. I'm sure there won't be a problem. Like I said, I am more than happy with this adapter and it functions to my expectations. Purchasing it was a breeze, of course, now that the website is back up (I don't like to do MO's or stuff like that so being able to use a credit card was great) and I got it inside of a week. Actually, I got it faster than I had hoped for because I couldn't get to a mill for a while, so the adapter was just sitting there, begging for a home. I agree with what you said about the dremel. You can most definitely do this mod with a dremel and a grinding wheel but you have to be patient and go slowly (so you don't ruin the temper or cause fractures in the metal). I am not patient, however, and chose to use a mill (only because it was available to me). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
admbleg 35 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Great write up. Mill work looks great. I'm in the process of fixing my trunnion from when I f'd it up last year doing it by dremel (live and learn). I still want my MSA adapter. But when I do it this time it's going to be by mill. Awesome job Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Just ran across this.... this is one of the best pic posts of a step by step install. Looks great Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evergreenkid29 14 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 I just got my MSA adaptor for my 223. it was real fast shipping only problem was the padded mailer was ripped and had several holes in itdo to shipping, but the adaptor was fine. Can anyone reccomend who i can send my gun to that has done this before, i do not want to dremel it. I would like to have it done on a mill. The two guys i ask here in Vermont do not want to do it because there not gunsmiths?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nattyiceking 33 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Hexus, thanks for the great post. I edited one of your pictures for personal use as a reference guide and thought I would share. Edited March 16, 2011 by nattyiceking Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hexus535 14 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hexus, thanks for the great post. I edited one of your pictures for personal use as a reference guide and thought I would share. Natty, thats a great reference pic! I probably should have edited it like you did, but I just described the dimensions in the pic description. Seriously though, It really wasn't that hard to do. You can't do it if you're afraid to damage the gun. Anyone reading this thread or the new MSA video thread who is considering doing this upgrade to their rifle should look into finding a benchtop mini-mill or a corded rotary tool with plenty of torque. Make sure you have some decent quality bits, carbide is the way to go. The trunnion steel is very tough and with a mill it took me a little while (admittedly, most of the time was for taking the gun in and out of the vise for test fitting.) A rotarty type tool can be used, but needs to be done very slowly and deliberately. I began by milling to the specified dimensions, test-fitting every so often. Once that was accomplished, and really started putting in the adapter and taking it out repeatedly, in an effort to wear off the anodizing where it was still contacting the trunnion. Using this method, you can quickly find out what is left that needs to be removed for the adapter to drop in. I touched up the corners with a rat-tail file and it popped right in. I recommend driving out the roll pins in the adapter and greasing it up before you put it back together. Right out of the package before I polished the inside, I noted that MAGPUL Emags fit in perfect and drop free, Pmags work great but fit a little snug, USGI mags work and drop free as well. After I polished the inside, any AR mag I could find worked and dropped free like a charm. If the whole thing goes to hell and you go too fast with the dremel and crack the steel or cause other problems, you can always just buy a new trunnion and repair the gun using a bolt-cutter repurposed for crushing rivets and a shop press to put the barrel in the new trunnion. Obviously, thats alot of work, but it's doable and you won't end up with a busted hunk of metal that used to be a gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nattyiceking 33 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 What's the difference between Pmags and Emags? I was told that Pmags were best for test fitting, but I much rather have my mags drop free without having to tear apart the adapter.. if possible Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 "E" is the euro mag version. If memory serves it's designed to work with euro spec weapons outside oh the AR world. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
protected static 19 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 The PMAG wouldn't seat properly in a number of weapons that take STANAG magazines, like the SA-80 (and I think it was also a no-go in the HK416). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hexus535 14 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Emags are designed for the narrower magwells of the FS2000, FN SCAR-L, HK416 and the Bushmaster ACR. They work in AR variants and most certainly work with this adapter. Edited March 25, 2011 by Hexus535 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cooger 19 Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Does this adapter work with a bullet guide already installed on the gun? If so do u have to rock the mag around it or does it slide straight in? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 You don't need a bg.... But if you have one the adapter can be trimmed to fit. To date there are a few who do run a bg with the adapter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blacknight 0 Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 i got my adapter in on friday and had it installer that night with my dremmel, i got impatient and didnt wait to ues the mill at work the next day, but it looks good anyway. after reassembly i did notice it seems to hand cycle smoother than it did with the saiga promags. i couldnt be happier with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK919 4 Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Anyone ever put one of these in an SLR106FR? I'm still debating on getting one after I fix up my FAL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Anyone ever put one of these in an SLR106FR? I'm still debating on getting one after I fix up my FAL. I have people with SLR-106, WASR3 and Norinco AKs using the adapter with great success. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 i got my adapter in on friday and had it installer that night with my dremmel, i got impatient and didnt wait to ues the mill at work the next day, but it looks good anyway. after reassembly i did notice it seems to hand cycle smoother than it did with the saiga promags. i couldnt be happier with it. Glad you are enjoying it... thanks for being a customer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dobravery 49 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) I just ordered and received one of the Blem-ish adapters. Delivery time was good. I thought the adapter looked great--the blemish hardly noticeable. A testament to MSA standards that if would be called a Blem. Even though I was just flat out really lucky to have rifles that take steel Galil mags well in the mag well (lol), I still felt an AR mag adapter was just a great thing to have. I can already see myself at the range popping in my buddies AR mag--demonstrating to him with my Saiga, that there is nothing wrong with the steel cased .223 ammo and that it's his rifle. Edited April 20, 2011 by dobravery 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Thanks for your comments.... We are rocking in the order department so delivery times did suffer a few days with all the new R&D going on. Our goal is to get to 1-2 day turn around but with the long shop hours we are only able to get shipping out 2-3 times a week till production on new items is smoothed out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 yeah.. I'm still not sure what's blemished one mine. I messed it up pretty good installing it with a dremel (was more willing to dremel bits of the adapter than the wasr, did both but I think the adapter suffered to compensate for the BG) and it works fantastically. It didn't like surplus steel mags so I ground off what would be more or less unnoticable to the naked eye on the catch block and it now grabs em perfectly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marsofold 6 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Well, I bit the bullet and ordered one of the non-blemished ones. Hope it arrives soon... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avnate 335 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 Well, I bit the bullet and ordered one of the non-blemished ones. Hope it arrives soon... What was your order number I have four of them I am shipping today and will check your order status. Nate Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marsofold 6 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Your Purchase No.: 1135 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
g21322635 2 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 What size roll pins does MSA use? If I need to replace one of them would be nice to know so I can buy them in advance. Hope I don't need them but who knows. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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