snooter 6 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 damn...i hope you get a jar of vaseline in the box cause your ass just got raped...far as the rail does it conform to current mil spec?..may be or may be not..even the benelli rail on the m4 needs to be swapped out...im not sure what $1500 gets you here but an overpriced shotty IMHO...far as some builder telling us these are banned i take that with a grain of salt until the shit is actually flying...hell tons of builders here could install that rail...you just gotta love this..only 200 in the country and its an absolute sure thing to be a collector..6 months later tromix offers the same damn thing and we that chose can all purchase....that price for that model saiga is just pure bullshit.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 there was never an ATF ban and that isn't in the factory configuration. after getting fucked in the ass for $1500 i don't think i could walk to the range.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TX-Zen 287 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 damn...i hope you get a jar of vaseline in the box cause your ass just got raped...far as the rail does it conform to current mil spec?..may be or may be not..even the benelli rail on the m4 needs to be swapped out...im not sure what $1500 gets you here but an overpriced shotty IMHO...far as some builder telling us these are banned i take that with a grain of salt until the shit is actually flying...hell tons of builders here could install that rail...you just gotta love this..only 200 in the country and its an absolute sure thing to be a collector..6 months later tromix offers the same damn thing and we that chose can all purchase....that price for that model saiga is just pure bullshit.. If you say so, sure Z Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRice 34 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 damn...i hope you get a jar of vaseline in the box cause your ass just got raped...far as the rail does it conform to current mil spec?..may be or may be not..even the benelli rail on the m4 needs to be swapped out...im not sure what $1500 gets you here but an overpriced shotty IMHO...far as some builder telling us these are banned i take that with a grain of salt until the shit is actually flying...hell tons of builders here could install that rail...you just gotta love this..only 200 in the country and its an absolute sure thing to be a collector..6 months later tromix offers the same damn thing and we that chose can all purchase....that price for that model saiga is just pure bullshit.. Correct me if I am wrong but there is much more to this gun than just the rail under the gas block.If I am not mistaken,it has a real functioning LRBHO ,which is something that many of us have been waiting to see for a long time, along with a magwell and drop free mags.I can see why all of this is desirable.I just can't bring myself to want one for a few reasons,the most important being that I am not a collector and like to shoot my stuff.The next being that the limited amount that are claimed to be imported means that those who do own them will be stuck with little aftermarket support and a bunch of proprietary parts. All that being said,I am sure this gun will be really cool and if it was going to be a grandish and thousands were being imported(which would convince US manufacturers to make mags for it)I would be on it like a dog humping a leg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I don't make the rules.. I enforce them.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) @Snooter Hey, you just keep explaining to yourself why you shouldn't buy one. But no matter what you do, you'll never be able to get the same money out of a "copy" than you can from the original. BTW, plain jane S-12s are going for $625.00+ everywhere. The 030 has an auto regulated gas system, mag well, LRBHO, top rail, lower rail on the gas block, thumb hole stock, hinged dust cover, etc... Now buy all that and import it from Russia. GL Jr. Edited February 18, 2011 by Bridis 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Correct me if I am wrong but there is much more to this gun than just the rail under the gas block.If I am not mistaken,it has a real functioning LRBHO ,which is something that many of us have been waiting to see for a long time, along with a magwell and drop free mags.I can see why all of this is desirable.I just can't bring myself to want one for a few reasons,the most important being that I am not a collector and like to shoot my stuff.The next being that the limited amount that are claimed to be imported means that those who do own them will be stuck with little aftermarket support and a bunch of proprietary parts. All that being said,I am sure this gun will be really cool and if it was going to be a grandish and thousands were being imported(which would convince US manufacturers to make mags for it)I would be on it like a dog humping a leg. This gun isn't a bunch of "proprietary parts". This gun can be converted with the same parts as any other S12. The only difference is the mags. Granted, no one is making mags that are 100% compatible with the LRBHO mag well. But the gun will still work with existing mags modified to work in a magwell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TX-Zen 287 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Incidently with a magwell you can load on a closed bolt, effectively just like an AK. I never reinstalled my BHO on my S12 after the magwell and have never needed it. Z Quote Link to post Share on other sites
supertex 242 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 i`d rather have a red jacket, and be ready to go 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRice 34 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Correct me if I am wrong but there is much more to this gun than just the rail under the gas block.If I am not mistaken,it has a real functioning LRBHO ,which is something that many of us have been waiting to see for a long time, along with a magwell and drop free mags.I can see why all of this is desirable.I just can't bring myself to want one for a few reasons,the most important being that I am not a collector and like to shoot my stuff.The next being that the limited amount that are claimed to be imported means that those who do own them will be stuck with little aftermarket support and a bunch of proprietary parts. All that being said,I am sure this gun will be really cool and if it was going to be a grandish and thousands were being imported(which would convince US manufacturers to make mags for it)I would be on it like a dog humping a leg. This gun isn't a bunch of "proprietary parts". This gun can be converted with the same parts as any other S12. The only difference is the mags. Granted, no one is making mags that are 100% compatible with the LRBHO mag well. But the gun will still work with existing mags modified to work in a magwell. I have never had my hands on one so I am not speaking as an authority on this.However,I know by looking at it that converting it can be done with parts I already own.The biggest issue are the mags.You are telling me that you can take US made mags(surefires) and modify them to work in this gun just like the factory Russian mags;operate the BHO mech and drop free? I am not buying one so It doesn't matter but it is worthless without mags that function like the Russian ones.Even if you could modify US mags to run in the gun but they didn't actuate the BHO when empty that would negate one of the coolest features of the gun. Once again,I am not bashing anyone who wants to buy one of these for whatever reason they decide they want it. Edited February 18, 2011 by RRice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 i`d rather have a red jacket, and be ready to go +1 Alright Then...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koliadko 207 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I get running a private forum the way the owner sees fit is his business. I don't make the rules and don't care to. I don't get that something as huge as the version 030 can't be linked to simply because the vendor isn't on the list, despite the fact that this forum is called Saiga-12.com and is about all things Saiga. Are we so focused on enforcing rules for the sake of enforcing rules that possibly we are missing a much bigger event in the Saiga-12 world? I would have thought ensthusiastic forum members would have appreciated the chance to buy one while they could, rather than miss the chance because rules are rules. Z Vendors on here PAY to advertise here. If they could sell on here without paying by having a member do the advertising, why would anyone pay to advertise? Like you said, it's the owners call.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Correct me if I am wrong but there is much more to this gun than just the rail under the gas block.If I am not mistaken,it has a real functioning LRBHO ,which is something that many of us have been waiting to see for a long time, along with a magwell and drop free mags.I can see why all of this is desirable.I just can't bring myself to want one for a few reasons,the most important being that I am not a collector and like to shoot my stuff.The next being that the limited amount that are claimed to be imported means that those who do own them will be stuck with little aftermarket support and a bunch of proprietary parts. All that being said,I am sure this gun will be really cool and if it was going to be a grandish and thousands were being imported(which would convince US manufacturers to make mags for it)I would be on it like a dog humping a leg. This gun isn't a bunch of "proprietary parts". This gun can be converted with the same parts as any other S12. The only difference is the mags. Granted, no one is making mags that are 100% compatible with the LRBHO mag well. But the gun will still work with existing mags modified to work in a magwell. I have never had my hands on one so I am not speaking as an authority on this.However,I know by looking at it that converting it can be done with parts I already own.The biggest issue are the mags.You are telling me that you can take US made mags(surefires) and modify them to work in this gun just like the factory Russian mags;operate the BHO mech and drop free? I am not buying one so It doesn't matter but it is worthless without mags that function like the Russian ones.Even if you could modify US mags to run in the gun but they didn't actuate the BHO when empty that would negate one of the coolest features of the gun. Once again,I am not bashing anyone who wants to buy one of these for whatever reason they decide they want it. The short answer is "Yes" SGM and other US mags will work after slight clearancing, and operate the LRBHO after you modify the follower. We have a thread on this rolling right now in the S12 forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 i`d rather have a red jacket, and be ready to go I've got a few RJs but I'd like one of these too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeep297 20 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Some people said the same thing when I bought a couple magpul/Noveske rifles for $2500 apiece. Now I'm laughing since the models I have sell for $5000 plus. I happen to like collecting along with shooting. This will be my collectors piece if thing go south and my soon to be Tromix conversion will be my work mule.$1500 is not bad at all considering what you get, especially if only 200 get imported. To each their own though and I understand those who don't like safe queens but saying we're getting raped is ridiculous. If only 200 get imported you'll be kicking yourself when you see how much they go for and ill be chuckling to myself. People are paying $700+ for basic Saigas right which there are thousands upon thousands in this country already. BTW I don't sell any of my collectors guns now, they'll be handed down in the family. Edited February 18, 2011 by Jeep297 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeep297 20 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) damn...i hope you get a jar of vaseline in the box cause your ass just got raped...far as the rail does it conform to current mil spec?..may be or may be not..even the benelli rail on the m4 needs to be swapped out...im not sure what $1500 gets you here but an overpriced shotty IMHO...far as some builder telling us these are banned i take that with a grain of salt until the shit is actually flying...hell tons of builders here could install that rail...you just gotta love this..only 200 in the country and its an absolute sure thing to be a collector..6 months later tromix offers the same damn thing and we that chose can all purchase....that price for that model saiga is just pure bullshit.. I absolutely love Tromix's work but everyone knows that an original is worth exponentially more. Maybe not to you but it is to anyone who collects anything, there's no denying it no matter what you may think of it. Edited February 18, 2011 by Jeep297 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Are you kidding me? Do you know what I could make with $1500? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeep297 20 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Are you kidding me? Do you know what I could make with $1500? No doubt a sweet ass setup but it still wouldn't be an original and what this could potentially end up being. Not sure why there is so much hatred for collectors items in the gun industry (this one is admittedly not there but could be). I'm having Tromix build something for nearly the same price that's set up exactly the way I want and buying this as well for its uniqueness. This model would be tough to build for $1500 as it is, much less come straight from the factory. What's so bad about that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) This model would be tough to build for $1500 as it is, much less come straight from the factory. What's so bad about that? Take off the aimpoint and I'm close to $1500 invested. Thats what is so bad about that. Original? unless you want to make original from the factory a selling point then I would like you to find me another S-12 with a polish safety(not tooting my own horn here just pointing out that there is still inovation being done by DIYers). If original from the factory is a point, how do you feel about FR-7/FR-8s out there? they were originaly 7mm or 8mm mausers. Ishapore or .308 converted lee enfields? (nothing against having Tromix or another gunsmith build something. Sometimes the name is a investment itself) Edit to add: In fact the rear sight base was almost one of the rarest tromix parts made. It sold poorly on initial sales causing it to almost be droped after initial production. Edited February 18, 2011 by Nailbomb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeep297 20 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 This model would be tough to build for $1500 as it is, much less come straight from the factory. What's so bad about that? Take off the aimpoint and I'm close to $1500 invested. Thats what is so bad about that. Original? unless you want to make original from the factory a selling point then I would like you to find me another S-12 with a polish safety(not tooting my own horn here just pointing out that there is still inovation being done by DIYers). If original from the factory is a point, how do you feel about FR-7/FR-8s out there? they were originaly 7mm or 8mm mausers. Ishapore or .308 converted lee enfields? (nothing against having Tromix or another gunsmith build something. Sometimes the name is a investment itself) Very nice setup you have, I don't deny that and I have a lot of respect for DIYers. I just happen to believe there's room for all of us with our differences in wants/needs. I would rather spend my $1500 on this model and you would rather spend $1500 to do something on your own . Depending on how things turn out, you will enjoy using yours and I will enjoy have something unique/rare just the same. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with either approach. To me, differences in the way we perceive life is what makes life worth living, otherwise we might as well just be robots. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I can respect that approach. Its just not the way I approach things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 This model would be tough to build for $1500 as it is, much less come straight from the factory. What's so bad about that? Take off the aimpoint and I'm close to $1500 invested. Thats what is so bad about that. Original? unless you want to make original from the factory a selling point then I would like you to find me another S-12 with a polish safety(not tooting my own horn here just pointing out that there is still inovation being done by DIYers). If original from the factory is a point, how do you feel about FR-7/FR-8s out there? they were originaly 7mm or 8mm mausers. Ishapore or .308 converted lee enfields? (nothing against having Tromix or another gunsmith build something. Sometimes the name is a investment itself) That's a nice gun. Does it have a self adjusting gas system? Any kind of a LRBHO at all? If not, then we're comparing apples to oranges here. I'd also be interested to learn how much time you have wrapped up in this and what you think your time is worth. Like I said, it's a nice gun and I'm glad you like it, but I wouldn't give you $1500 for it. You obviously feel the same way about the 030 and that's my point. To each his own. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 That's a nice gun. Does it have a self adjusting gas system? Any kind of a LRBHO at all? If not, then we're comparing apples to oranges here. I'd also be interested to learn how much time you have wrapped up in this and what you think your time is worth. Like I said, it's a nice gun and I'm glad you like it, but I wouldn't give you $1500 for it. You obviously feel the same way about the 030 and that's my point. To each his own. Tac-47 makes a auto plug already(I do have one, its on another gun), and CGW a LRBHO. Both are available to the DIYer. To the point however, I do agree. to each their own. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 $1500 no way in hell...thats benelli m4 price...no way in hell... $1500.00 is nothing when you think about it. There are most likely less than 1,000 of these guns in the US. Because of the recent ATF ban, no more will be imported. This is your LAST chance to own an original Saiga shotgun in this factory configuration. The $1500.00 isn't just buying the gun, it's buying the opportunity. BTW, I'm also in line for one. Where do you get these figures? Less than a thousand? Maybe less than a dozen. You are right about the price. It's a steal!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
havok 21 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) This gun is great in all but for $1500, it is still not a real version 30. It is missing SAIGA12_FOLDING_BUTT_£ 294.00 294.00 SAIGA12_BUTT_RETAIN_£ 36.00 36.00 SAIGA12_IZH_TAC_GRIP_£ 33.00 33.00 AK_FOLDING_KIT_£ 52.00 52.00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All prices are in UK Pounds TOTAL 415.00 415.00 GBP = $673.718 USD devided by 1.2 = $560.72 Plus a new fcg and a ak builder trigger gaurd. So it will take about 2,300 to make this a almost REAL version 30. Edited February 18, 2011 by havok Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think the question at that price is collectability and bragging rights. If a guy has a checkbook, likes the looks, and doesn't care, he will buy. It's no different than the people who buy beanie babies. But that also means they are testing the market for the Russian magwell guns. We can neuter one of those just as easily as the Plain Jane 109 to get it in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike1234567 26 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) I understand "investment startegy" but it's important to also "want" something like this because it's indeed a financial risk. Could be profitable... could be lossy. If one really wants the item(s) then at least he/she can enjoy the "thing" for what it is even after taking the fiscal hit. That stated, I'm not buying anything like this pricey Saiga because I can make a lot more money buying drums and hi-cap mags... plus they'll be much easier/quicker to sell due to the lesser cost per item. Regards to firearms... simpler/cheaper/stock is more likely to be profitable and will probably increase in "percentage" value far more than the pricey "custom/rare" ones. No... I'm not "hording" mags or Saigas but I am buying one each for myself while I still can (I want them anyway) and buying more mags than I'll ever need so I can sell or trade them if I deem appropriate... and I know it's very unlikely that I'll ever "lose money" on them. Edited February 18, 2011 by Mike1234567 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeep297 20 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think the question at that price is collectability and bragging rights. If a guy has a checkbook, likes the looks, and doesn't care, he will buy. It's no different than the people who buy beanie babies. But that also means they are testing the market for the Russian magwell guns. We can neuter one of those just as easily as the Plain Jane 109 to get it in. Yeah it looks like all they'll have to do is remove the small rail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) This gun is great in all but for $1500, it is still not a real version 30. It is missing SAIGA12_FOLDING_BUTT_£ 294.00 294.00 SAIGA12_BUTT_RETAIN_£ 36.00 36.00 SAIGA12_IZH_TAC_GRIP_£ 33.00 33.00 AK_FOLDING_KIT_£ 52.00 52.00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All prices are in UK Pounds TOTAL 415.00 415.00 GBP = $673.718 USD devided by 1.2 = $560.72 Plus a new fcg and a ak builder trigger gaurd. So it will take about 2,300 to make this a almost REAL version 30. don't forget the flash suppressor Plus labor for the rear trunuin, front latch, then refinish. let's also not forget the 922r issue Custom made replacement parts to bring the parts count down. Edited February 19, 2011 by saigatechusa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
britch999 1 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) you could also just get a russian polymer sidefolder stock and ak builder front latch here for $300 + md arms grip like I did instead of spending silly money to get them from rusmil. I did get in on the preorder too, i think they are very cool and I dont think there is any way to make this yourself for less money. geez did you see what oleg is charging for the conversion parts which might not work anyway? They might be another batch with a recast gas block but this the only batch making it in like this Edited February 18, 2011 by britch999 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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