Home defense

[OBITUARY 12]

Sounds like he identified his target and didn't fire as per his training .By the way the story sounds they didn't make it announced enough that they were police .He could have caught them in a major choke point and made alot more widows.

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

best yet would be just normal non-show boat police work. too much trouble to pick him up going to or from his job. but they run the risk of swat being defunded. if its true they withheld medical assistance, this was possibly a hit.

[kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62]

Was he laying there alive? Did they let him bleed out?

 

"KGUN9 has uncovered that it took one-hour-and-fourteen-minutes for that to happen. "From the time paramedics arrived on scene until they were allowed in the home, it was one-hour-and-fourteen- minutes."

http://www.kgun9.com...d-name-restored

 

 

looks like they took that article down? Why would they not let the paramedics in?

 

It's been retitled

 

 

Medical care blocked for man killed by SWAT

 

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Certainly there are good cops and worse cops. They have a job to do, but that's what it is - a job. Not a higher calling that instantly makes them heroes once they are hired to do the government's bidding...

 

Quoted for truth.

 

The man these law enforcement officers murdered in the presence of his wife and young son had no criminal record and was a USMC veteran, who served two tours in Iraq. To volunteer for such a thing during time of war truly is to embrace a higher calling, and the very definition of patriotism and bravery.

 

I am inclined to regard such an individual as deserving of respect and gratitude.

 

Cops? Not so much. They have taken more and more of an aggressive, adversarial, often para-military, (without the most important parts of the training), position toward the citizenry in recent years and we're supposed to be "thankful" for this "service" and just ignore the casual slaughter of innocent people that inevitably results from their stormtrooper tactics?

 

I think not.

Edited May 13, 2011 by post-apocalyptic

[Heath_h49008 442]

Ignoring the details of this incident... Or any like it...

 

One good low light camera and a steel door set in concrete could have saved this mans life.

 

I suppose the ideal would be some sort of entryway that would contain anyone who made it into the outer door, before they made the occupied portion of the home. But if you live in an apartment, or other rented property, that isn't feasible. Plus you would have to make the windows barred in some way as well.

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

http://youtu.be/hRtCM7aw04Q

[OBITUARY 12]

Then it would be an easier excuse for them to blow an entry hole in the wall.Traffic stop would've been better cause they obviously were expecting a possible fight.Surveillance was apparently not performed at all too many assumptions. This sounds too terrible to really happen. Improper planning leads to piss poor performance.

[jimdigriz 580]

Ignoring the details of this incident... Or any like it...

 

One good low light camera and a steel door set in concrete could have saved this mans life.

 

I suppose the ideal would be some sort of entryway that would contain anyone who made it into the outer door, before they made the occupied portion of the home. But if you live in an apartment, or other rented property, that isn't feasible. Plus you would have to make the windows barred in some way as well.

 

What do you guys think about alerting the intruders that you are aware of their presence? For instance, by pressing a car alarm or house alarm button, turning on a light, etc. I figure that most BGs will usually skedaddle, and police would probably not try to knock down the door if they know someone is alert, instead announcing themselves properly.

[Heath_h49008 442]

The idea of scaring an intruder off vs shooting the SOB may seem like kicking the problem down the road, but when we are talking about survival. Hell yes. Getting that much notice something is going on is the trick.

 

I live in a building where the neighbors door barely closes anymore because it has been kicked in so many times. (Mostly by other crack heads.) My last townhouse we had an armed home invasion next door... same building. As a consequence, I keep my weapon handy. The idea of a cop being too hurried to read a door number correctly has crossed my mind, but the odds are it would be a crackhead who had no idea who is here.

 

Yeah, I'll be ready to shoot.

 

I would rather come up with a better plan. I don't relish the thought of being on the news as a killer, or a casualty.

 

My greater concern is if they get scared off once, do they come back later? Maybe after more scouting. We all have to sleep sometime.

[Sly 233]

Was he laying there alive? Did they let him bleed out?

 

"KGUN9 has uncovered that it took one-hour-and-fourteen-minutes for that to happen. "From the time paramedics arrived on scene until they were allowed in the home, it was one-hour-and-fourteen- minutes."

http://www.kgun9.com...d-name-restored

 

 

looks like they took that article down? Why would they not let the paramedics in?

 

It's been retitled

 

 

Medical care blocked for man killed by SWAT

 

 

Thank you Kevin. We will never hear the truth about this, or any other No-knock shooting involving a mistake. And in my uninformed opinion, this was another SSWAT mistake. Now the coverup will begin.

 

My uninformed opinion is they hit the wrong house. The victim thought it was a home invasion (wich in actuallity it was) and grabbed his weapon to defend his family. Being a trained veteran held his fire until he was sure of his target. And seeing it was SWAT held his fire too long.

The SSWAT team on the other hand, Fully believing they can forcefully enter any dwelling, anytime, because there boss tells them to. Kicks in the door to find a man with a weapon pointed at them and goes Rambo. Drags the women and children out. Blocks enrty of emergency personell until the main threat to there egotistical existance is totally silent (over an hour later). Then goes outback for steak and cigars.

 

 

My uninformed opinion?

They MURDERED this us veteran. In his home, in front of his family. SS is alive in the usa.

 

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

 

I will not hold fire. Thats why I vote for my Sherrif, and live in the country.

[Sly 233]

Ignoring the details of this incident... Or any like it...

 

One good low light camera and a steel door set in concrete could have saved this mans life.

 

I suppose the ideal would be some sort of entryway that would contain anyone who made it into the outer door, before they made the occupied portion of the home. But if you live in an apartment, or other rented property, that isn't feasible. Plus you would have to make the windows barred in some way as well.

 

What do you guys think about alerting the intruders that you are aware of their presence? For instance, by pressing a car alarm or house alarm button, turning on a light, etc. I figure that most BGs will usually skedaddle, and police would probably not try to knock down the door if they know someone is alert, instead announcing themselves properly.

 

 

Very good ideas Heath.

[454496 71]

Would not 71 shots mutilate a human body?

 

Could the cops be that bad of shots to miss so many time in such a short distance?

 

Maybe some of the cops were missing on purpose because one of them made a mistake?

 

Maybe some of the cops choose to shoot because they did not want to be ridiculed because of the brotherhood?

 

Maybe 71 shots were not shot?

Edited May 13, 2011 by 454496

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Of course this is all cover up for their fuck up... Their lies are already exposed, they initially claimed their victim fired first, when that was claim was blown outta'da water by evidence, they quickly changed their story.

 

No medical assistance? Can't have their victim talking now, can they?

He'd likely have said exactly what is being said here, "I though it was a home invasion, as they're so common here. I prepared to defend my family/home, I held my fire till I'd ID'd the unknown intruders, and held my fire as they appeared to be LEOs."

He then probably had the balls to demand they leave his house, while he likely maintained his weapons muzzle in the general direction of the armed intruders... Can't have the civilians standing up for their Rights now, can we? KILL HIM!

 

I can see both him and the LEOs shouting orders at each other, "Drop the weapon!", "No, you drop it and GTFO of my home!", finally a LEO snaps and pulls the trigger and the herd follows.

 

There is little question that he was murdered, it took at least a hour for him to die.

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

10 dec. 1980 i raised my right hand and swore an oath. its my understanding that these public employees do also. i doubt any have ever read our nations constitution . or just as important the declaration of independence . one of the things that the chinese do right . they never tolerate betrayal of the public trust. i pray for the day when we will run out of rope.

i feel sorry for all the good people that live in cities. their options are fewer. here we rely on the poor mans security system , dogs . not two or three. seven. none are vicious just vocal. some inside some outside. the dogs bark one way for deer another for people. fence is 6ft . anyone inside it i would consider a threat. we have a castle law in this state.

[BeefEater 27]

This is pretty naive. There have been many wrong address raids, as well as raids based on faulty or malicious tips.

 

Exactly. A recently egregious case happened a few weeks ago when a man was in his home when police SWAT team burst into the house in the middle of the night. The man was held at gunpoint in the living room while the police tore up the house for hours. They continually taunted him, calling him a pervert, saying "you know what you did you sick fuck", etc.

 

Turns out, the neighbor was leeching off their WiFi, and downloading child pornography. Going on nothing more than an IP address (which any technically inclined person can tell you is pretty worthless) they raided a house.

 

Also I agree with your sentiment above. Aside from big cities like NYC, LA, Chicago, DC, etc. that often have foreign dignitaries and various high risk targets, for which a SWAT team may be needed, there is really no reason for a SWAT team anywhere else. I can't think of a single good reason why pretty much every podunk county in the middle of nowhere now has armored vehicles and stormtroopers.

Edited May 13, 2011 by BeefEater

[kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62]

This whole thing looks like they put a bunch retards there, i have never seen something this screwed up before.

 

Did you look at my link to Lubbock PD SWAT?

369 Bullets Fired In Lubbock SWAT Snafu

I'm not sure Lubbock is the most screwed up, but if not it's close.

 

 

This one is pretty good too.

SWAT cop kills prone non-resisting 11 year old with his shotgun.

If you look into it in detail you'll find

We didn't know there were children in the house!

It's not our fault, we were just following DEA orders!

Nowhere in the investigation did it occur to ask anyone what function this device called a "safety" has and why it wasn't on.

And Officer David Hawn was patted and to back and put on the Job after his long paid vacation, enforcing the law with his customary vigor.

[Heath_h49008 442]

Guys, we have too many GOOD cops on this board to let this get out of hand. I posted that link of the first day of the story... I had no idea what had gone down or what would surface about this case. Cops are not all evil. These are our friends.

 

END IT.

 

I want to hear a way around it. Have any of you rigged up your own security cams? How could you know for certain if you saw a weapon coming through your door, that it was a thug and not a cop on the other end of it? If you hear a loud slam of someone breaking down your front door, how do you stop this from happening? If you hold fire, you may get shot anyway, so do you shoot the guy even if he's a cop? Of course not.

 

There has to be a way around this! I don't care if you have an idea for securing a door, or alerting local LEOs that you are not what they want. The guys in uniform on this board are the best source of info you are going to get for a way to save both your lives. Don't insult them out of hand.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Heath_h49008

[jimdigriz 580]

Turns out, the neighbor was leeching off their WiFi, and downloading child pornography. Going on nothing more than an IP address (which any technically inclined person can tell you is pretty worthless) they raided a house.

 

A good reason to not leave one's WIFI open access.

[jimdigriz 580]

I want to hear a way around it. Have any of you rigged up your own security cams? How could you know for certain if you saw a weapon coming through your door, that it was a thug and not a cop on the other end of it? If you hear a loud slam of someone breaking down your front door, how do you stop this from happening? If you hold fire, you may get shot anyway, so do you shoot the guy even if he's a cop? Of course not.

 

There have been a number of cases of home invaders posing as police or FBI, even with appropriate costumes. So even cameras will not necessarily be dispositive, unless perhaps they show you police cars in their field of view.

 

Early warning devices and cameras are probably the best bet. A motion sensor alarm for the porch, and a magnetic driveway alarm, would both be good ideas.

[G O B 3,516]

Guys, we have too many GOOD cops on this board to let this get out of hand. I posted that link of the first day of the story... I had no idea what had gone down or what would surface about this case. Cops are not all evil. These are our friends.

 

END IT.

 

I want to hear a way around it. Have any of you rigged up your own security cams? How could you know for certain if you saw a weapon coming through your door, that it was a thug and not a cop on the other end of it? If you hear a loud slam of someone breaking down your front door, how do you stop this from happening? If you hold fire, you may get shot anyway, so do you shoot the guy even if he's a cop? Of course not.

 

There has to be a way around this! I don't care if you have an idea for securing a door, or alerting local LEOs that you are not what they want. The guys in uniform on this board are the best source of info you are going to get for a way to save both your lives. Don't insult them out of hand.

BULLSHIT! We are not bashing GOOD Cops. We are stating the facts in America today. Ask the local Mayor here about out of control SWAT rambos. The County Swat team intercepted a package of pot, knowing the scam was a false delivery scam, all on the delivery end. The addresses delivered to were just randomly selected and the packages were picked up before the home owners came home from work. The County SWAT did NOT contact the City Police, they instead kicked in the door WITHOUT ANY WARRANT and shot and killed the family dogs in front of the Mayors children , handcuffed the Mayor and kept him in the living room for hours IN HIS UNDERWEAR in front of his wife, kids and mother in law.

[magsite20 1,664]

[YARP 300]

I'm going to stay away from this topic cause I've got a good feeling where it's headed, but I do agree with Heath, a more secure home is probably going to have these folks surrounded and called out instead of SWAT going straight in, and most would be robbers would probably just move on to the house next door. Cameras would at least help the guy inside say "I should probably put this gun down cause there's a slew of SWAT out there and I've got a 5 yr old". A dog would help. Lights are nice. Either way, shitty situation.

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

this has got to be a real conundrum for the govt. worshiping , im proud to be an american, were gonna put a boot in their ass types. however the question still stands.

shocked from sleep. your home is being attacked by heavily armed masked men. what is your reaction? have you made any plans for this type of situation?

i try to plan for these things mentally first.i want to avoid hesitating as he did if possible. non-uniformed criminals i would consider a lesser threat . unless of coarse their running mostly on chemicals. their less likely to have armor on. and once repelled will no doubt be looking for easier prey. uniformed criminals would be dealt with in the same manner. i well know that even repelled these masked men would be back with more and bigger toys. so, what ever happened to due process anyway?

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Cops that do bad things should be punished and held to account for their actions. Cops that DON'T do bad things should not be punished and held to account actions of the bad cops.

 

and the more secure your house is, the safer you are.. I ain't about to build a panic room, though.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I never want to hear its a hard job gives these guys a break from anyone. I been there and done that hard job and i never seen some crap like this.....

 

You were a police officer?

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

I never want to hear its a hard job gives these guys a break from anyone. I been there and done that hard job and i never seen some crap like this.....

 

You were a police officer?

If so, I sure hope any police reports were proof read!

[RobRez 1,895]

Does "Curling up into the Fetal position and weeping" fall into anyone else' s "Home Defense Plan" besides mine????

[kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62]

So when Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik has some time free from accusing Rush Limbaugh of inciting the Sheriff's favorite left-wing nutcase to murder he might consider training his department how how to lie convincingly. Or perhaps how to actually follow the procedure they say they follow.

 

 

SWAT entry questioned in Marine's death

...

Lt. Michael O'Connor says SWAT says it never wants to be mistaken for other people, "We had our large armored vehicle there with the markings on it. It also has lights and sirens. It was going. So we do everything we can to try to portray the image that we're law enforcement, we're not home invaders."

 

But, Guerena's wife, Vanessa, who hid in the closet with her youngest son while 71 rounds were fired her husband's direction, said she heard nothing. At any point did you hear them yell, 'police" or 'SWAT'?" KGUN9 asked. "No, no!" answered Guerena.

 

A neighbor who heard the shooting corroborates the wife's account, "The only sirens I heard out here were like maybe 20-30 minutes into the entire ordeal," said David Watson.

 

Watson is very familiar with gunfire and stressful situations; he's a Vietnam combat veteran, "I want to make this as clear as possible: you only heard the announcements after you heard the gunfire?" asked KGUN9 reporter Joel Waldman. Watson quickly answered, "Yes!"

 

...

Edited May 14, 2011 by KevinInNM

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

The eyewitnesses versions of events are adding up against the whole story given by LE.

And the LE story has already been changed/modified a couple times.

 

Seeming pretty damned obvious that they screwed the pooch on this one in some way, bad info, wrong house/addy... Whatever.

Then enter without lights/sirens or any announcement, find a well trained citizen facing them, they wound him, and then withhold medical assistance until he dies.

The key witness can no longer tell his side of the story... How convenient.

 

Circle the wagons boys, protect the Brotherhood.

[Heath_h49008 442]

The eyewitnesses versions of events are adding up against the whole story given by LE.

And the LE story has already been changed/modified a couple times.

 

Seeming pretty damned obvious that they screwed the pooch on this one in some way, bad info, wrong house/addy... Whatever.

Then enter without lights/sirens or any announcement, find a well trained citizen facing them, they wound him, and then withhold medical assistance until he dies.

The key witness can no longer tell his side of the story... How convenient.

 

Circle the wagons boys, protect the Brotherhood.

 

That would make another damn good case for cameras in your home and car. No chance of confusion when you aren't able to testify yourself.