Improving Pistol Marksmanship

[Squishy 1,149]

My goal is to improve my skill and accuracy with my main pistola, the Sig Sauer P245.

 

What I've been told by a knowledgeable person (the guy who did my CWP training and does my FFL transfers) is that I need to integrate a 22LR pistol into my training/practice so I can shoot more i.e. lower ammo costs. At this point in time money is most definitely an issue, so this advice makes sense.

 

But there is the issue of using a relatively low powered round to improve skills with a high power round. Sig does make a conversion kit so that 22LR can be used with the P220, which I don't have, but even if I did, the kits are at least $300 and from what I'm seeing on the net this kit is not without it's problems. And some make the case that this kind of money can buy another pistol.

 

But again, how much can marksmanship skills be improved using a different pistol and a greatly different round for practice? I honestly don't know. Sig does make a 22LR automatic, the Mosquito but I'm not seeing entirely glowing opinion on it either.

 

What do experienced shooters think?

[JC GoF 70]

Its like any thing in life the more you do it the better you get. What that means is muscle memory and that is what your after all along. Patrice makes prefect.

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

practice makes permanent actually, first work on your form, take some classes or get tips from better shooters on your grip, stance, etc. just make sure you aren't practicing something that will have a negative impact on your shooting once it becomes muscle memory, i know first hand because i started with poor form when i first started shooting rifles and it took a long time to correct it, i started out much better with handguns and it's easier for me to shoot because i don't have any bad habits to deal with

[Agent Lemon 157]

Shoot as much as you can. Dryfire at the target, at the range, in between magazines.

 

oh wait, you want info from experienced shooters

Edited June 6, 2012 by Agent Lemon

[Squishy 1,149]

Very good points all, Thanks.

 

Do you have an opinion about using a 22LR to learn/hone/practice? I was just looking at the Sig Mosquito on Gun Broker, I can probably pick one up for under $300.

 

RH, good point about practicing how to do it wrong. I have been shooting off and on for a long time and I've never had any training or input about doing it right. This is what I want to work on now. I pretty much suck at 25 yards with the 45 and I want to work on getting better. I'm not fortunate enough to have a knowledgeable friend to work with me so I have to find instruction wherever I can.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

you know what has helped me a ton? a quality Airsoft..

 

I can shoot in the house, draw from concealment & whatnot...

 

[Squishy 1,149]

you know what has helped me a ton? a quality Airsoft..

 

Wow, this hadn't even crossed my mind but since I don't have a range right down the street, this would allow some practice I might not get otherwise. I'm still looking at 22LRs and I'm seeing Smith and Wesson, Ruger, there are a lot of options...

 

Woah, just went looking at Airsoft on eBay and these things are as expensive as "real" pistols...damn.

 

I just realized that the P220 is available in a 22LR version...

Edited June 6, 2012 by Squishy

[magsite20 1,664]

As stated practice is great as long as it’s done correctly, as to getting a 22 in the same layout as your center fire gun that may or may not be a big plus. Seems like I see a lot of the pros that use a Ruger auto in rim fire matches that use 1911 style guns as they’re primary competition gun and there are a lot of 1911 rim fires available.

 

Anytime you shoot using good fundamentals with a gun it translates from gun to gun for the most part. When I was shooting a lot and well I used a 22 Smith revolver for practice and it seemed to help not only with my center fire revolver but with the Glock and even the 1911.

 

Last thing I’d suggest is go shoot some matches and watch the top shooters and ask questions, shooting competition will push you to get better at it, no one likes to loose.

[KennyFSU 249]

Great advice in this thread. I've been shooting pistols for years but only recently have gotten into rifles/shotguns.

 

I also want to reiterate the importance of dry fire practice (snap caps go a long way). At home I usually line up the sight picture and when firing, make sure there is little to no movement at all at the front sight. Many times during live fire, I find myself dipping down the muzzle in order to "control" the recoil; this is quite common and takes lots of practice NOT to do.

 

A good way to test to see if you do this is to place snap cap in your magazine at the range along with live ammo and fire. You'll find out soon enough whether or not you "flinch" lol.

[G O B 3,516]

For home practice, a pellet pistol and rifle will work best for most of us.

Those of us in suburbia cannot shoot firearms in the yard, and discharging firearms in the house is generally frowned upon. The only available range is limited to fixed paper targets - good for practicing shooting form and proving function, BUT anything that needs shooting in the real world will seldom sit still at exactly 2o yards, or 100 yards and wait for you to carefully aim at it!

I use the pellet guns to shoot homemade reactive targets around the yard and house. Homemade reactive targets are things like the aluminum plates from an old electric grill, an old propane tank, the wheelbarrow, whatever will make a satisfying noise when hit. In the house, an old cardboard box with a piece of plywood or any crap that the wife wants tossed is fair game if it will stop a pellet. The idea is get and stay familiar at shooting varied distances, and develop real life experience in shooting things around my own house and yard.

[Squishy 1,149]

Great input from 20-Mags, KennyFSU and G O B, thanks. I'd like to get some one on one instruction to make sure my basic technique is sound. Like Russian Hammer said, "just make sure you aren't practicing something that will have a negative impact on your shooting once it becomes muscle memory". The problem is I'm not seeing this kind of instruction available around here. If you search the net for it most of what comes up is about CWP training which I've had. I was thinking about asking the guy working the range I go to about it, you'd think someone like this would know.

 

While using any pistol or pellet gun-airsoft for practice is good I remembered that the Sig P220 is available in 22LR which is almost exactly like my 45 in size and function. So I think I'm going to find a way to make getting one of these happen.

 

Are there any books you guys would recommend with regard to basic technique? I know I can't learn it all out of a book but I'd think there must be some that contain the basic "core" ideas about pistol shooting.

[magsite20 1,664]

"Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals" by Brian Enos is very good availible on his forum and again shooting matches is great training USPSA and/or IDPA should have clubs somewhere near you.

[Squishy 1,149]

"Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals" by Brian Enos is very good availible on his forum and again shooting matches is great training USPSA and/or IDPA should have clubs somewhere near you.

 

Technology is cool (most of the time). You recommended it, I fire up the 7" tablet and within seconds, I have the book. Thanks for the recommendation. Also, there's a USPSA match here on the 7th of July. If I'm still not out of town for the 4th, I'll have to catch it.

 

Thanks again.

[Squishy 1,149]

New Thread...

Edited June 7, 2012 by Squishy

[MT Predator 2,294]

A good way to test to see if you do this is to place snap cap in your magazine at the range along with live ammo and fire. You'll find out soon enough whether or not you "flinch" lol.

You can do "Ball and Dummy" drills without the snap cap. Have your Battle Buddy prep your weapon behind your back. You won't know if it has an empty or hot chamber. As far as training with a .22LR goes. It doesn't have to be a converted full sized pistol. I shoot the shit out of my Walther P22. Although the Manual of Arms varies between different pistols, the basic fundamentals are the same to hit the target.

[KennyFSU 249]

^ That is true, but not everyone always has the convenience of a range buddy.

 

I do many solo trips and used to use the snap cap method a lot.

[Squishy 1,149]

Yeah, I wouldn't have the benefit of a range buddy for the most part. I do understand that there is much to be gained from practicing with any similar pistol over not practicing as much because of the cost of ammo. But as I see "muscle memory" talked about frequently is seems a nearly identical pistol is size, weight and function would be useful in achieving it. As I mention in the other thread about the Sig P220, the added benefit is that with a conversion kit, the round can be changed to 45ACP if desired.

[YARP 300]

One of the best forms of trainging that you can do on your own time is dry firing. Getting to know your trigger break, how your gun points naturally and the draw phase are just as important as actually shooting at a target. I have a friend that's an amazing shot.....when he has the time. When put under pressure to draw, acquire the target and drop rounds in to it, he falls apart.

Put your holster on and tape some targets around the biggest room in your house, then practice drawing down on them (the draw phase and acquiring the target) and then completeing a clean trigger pull (trigger break), reholster and repeat 10 gajillion times until it becomes completely natrual.

 

Last but not least, go get some private instruction. Even if your a damn good shot I garuntee the instructor (if he/she isn't a tactical ninja) will be able to help you. Another good exercise is to video your self when practicing....you'll notice all the un-necessary movement that you never thought you were doing.

 

Good luck and have fun with it!

[Squishy 1,149]

One of the best forms of trainging that you can do on your own time is dry firing. Getting to know your trigger break, how your gun points naturally and the draw phase are just as important as actually shooting at a target. I have a friend that's an amazing shot.....when he has the time. When put under pressure to draw, acquire the target and drop rounds in to it, he falls apart.

Put your holster on and tape some targets around the biggest room in your house, then practice drawing down on them (the draw phase and acquiring the target) and then completeing a clean trigger pull (trigger break), reholster and repeat 10 gajillion times until it becomes completely natrual.

 

Last but not least, go get some private instruction. Even if your a damn good shot I garuntee the instructor (if he/she isn't a tactical ninja) will be able to help you. Another good exercise is to video your self when practicing....you'll notice all the un-necessary movement that you never thought you were doing.

 

Good luck and have fun with it!

 

Very good input YARP. Private instruction is something I've already thought seriously about but in doing basic searches I'm not seeing much available around here. I'll keep looking. I assume for dry firing I'd need to get a "snap cap", is this correct? Would a spent piece of brass work?

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Snap cap is an actual brand. I just do dry-fire practice empty. I'm not the best but my 1911 and I are minute of lizard head accurate at 25 feet...

[6500rpm 670]

Not an exact science, but when practicing around the house I found that having a laser on the pistol gave me a visual aid to see things like how steady my point of aim was and if I was pulling the gun away from point of aim as I was squeezing the trigger. More or less just made me aware of what I was doing with a visual cue and something you can do in your home at any given time.

[Squishy 1,149]

Not an exact science...

 

Very good points, I hadn't thought of lasers this way.

 

Really good input in this thread from everyone, I do appreciate it.

[MT Predator 2,294]

I assume for dry firing I'd need to get a "snap cap", is this correct? Would a spent piece of brass work?

A snap cap isn't required to dry fire but if you can use them mixed in with live ammo for malfunction drills.

[thebuns1 4,323]

i try to shoot both right and left handed. i can now hit the target with a full mag with my left hand. handguns are one of the hardest things to master in the world of shooting. while training with 22lr, your follow up target aquisition may be slower when using your choice of full power loads, but should help with your trigger control. but in the end, practice is what will make you more efficient.

[KennyFSU 249]

Damn that's pretty impressive that you can hit with your non-dominant hand. I tried once and didn't couldn't even hit paper from 15' lol. But I'm also right handed/right eye dominant.

[thebuns1 4,323]

well im right handed as well, but have been doing this everytime i go to shoot pistols. but keep in mind i dont get very good groups, just that my shots will hit the target. im no where near as good left hand trigger as i am right hand trigger, but good enough to make do i guess should the need arise. and it did take me a while before i could do so. you should try it more often. you may suprise yourself.

[Squishy 1,149]

i try to shoot both right and left handed....

 

While I have shot pistols over the years I have never made a methodical, effort to shoot with accuracy. This is what I'm doing now and the reason for the OP. So I'm actually starting from scratch and assuming I know nothing about the basics. I'm going through the process step by step and as part of this I obtained the NRA pub "The Basics Of Pistol Shooting". I want to ensure I have the basics in mind before I start practicing in earnest so I will practice good form, etc. from the beginning.

 

I have confirmed that I'm Left/Left. It's interesting that the six fundamentals of shooting could easily apply to a game I've played, golf;

• Position
  
• Grip
  
• Breath Control
  
• Sight Alignment
  
• Trigger Squeeze (which I assume is the same as "Trigger Control")
  
• Follow Through
  

I'll be working on these points.

[thebuns1 4,323]

i try to shoot both right and left handed....

 

While I have shot pistols over the years I have never made a methodical, effort to shoot with accuracy. This is what I'm doing now and the reason for the OP. So I'm actually starting from scratch and assuming I know nothing about the basics. I'm going through the process step by step and as part of this I obtained the NRA pub "The Basics Of Pistol Shooting". I want to ensure I have the basics in mind before I start practicing in earnest so I will practice good form, etc. from the beginning.

 

I have confirmed that I'm Left/Left. It's interesting that the six fundamentals of shooting could easily apply to a game I've played, golf;

• Position
  
• Grip
  
• Breath Control
  
• Sight Alignment
  
• Trigger Squeeze (which I assume is the same as "Trigger Control")
  
• Follow Through
  

I'll be working on these points.

 

i dont think youll have any problems then.

[Ronin38 2,117]

Handy tip for the Airsoft pistols- I took a cardboard box about 15" square and taped it shut, empty. Cut a square out of the top that's a bit smaller than the target you like to shoot at, and tape or clip the target over the hole. The airsoft pellets can penetrate the target, but won't go out the back of the box. Then cut a "bite" out of one of the top corners of the box. When you're done shooting and (hopefully) all the pellets are in the box, just tip the box over and pour the pellets out into the container you keep the pellets in.

[Squishy 1,149]

Handy tip for the Airsoft pistols...

 

Damn, you guys are gonna make a no-shit shooter out of me...great tip Samurai Solitario.

 

All seriousness aside, I've said it before and I'll say it again, thanks for the input, tips etc. keep em comin.

 

But I'll have to do my part, I know this.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Squishy