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12g Dragons Breath Tactical Handload

12g Dragons Breath Handloading Reloading Exotic Specialty

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#1 ZM 1306

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:31 AM

I am looking for recipies to try and load my own Dragons Breath ammo.

My current plan is to fill the shotcup with a little layer of fine magnisium turnings, some flechette darts, then filled with corse magnisium turnings.

It was sugested to drill through the wad and insert a fuse to ensure ignition of the accelerant.

The flechette darts are to aid in lethality if it was used on an attacker, but primary pourpose would be to shread up the target and work in some burning magnisium.


Looking for suggestions for any alternitive accelerants.

Testing will be done at a range and with a single shot device, arrangments are made. Legality will be verified after a set of test loads are determained.

I want to beable to fire these in my saiga, would be a great way to start bondfires! (also Riot Defence)
Right of Revolution

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#2 RED333

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:36 AM

The Dragons Breath ammo I have seen shot was burning coming out the barrel.
Not something I want to shoot in my S12, why not buy a few rounds, take them apart
and see how it is done.

Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#3 ZM 1306

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:00 AM

I dont have a way to identify materials, but thinking of picking one up if I find any. (I dont do online shopping)
Right of Revolution

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

#4 Squishy

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:27 AM

I looked for stuff like this at the gun show I went to a few weeks ago but didn't see it. It's damn expensive stuff. More than Dragon's Breath I've wondered about the "Flash-Bang" rounds which I think might have a purpose as the first round fired, the "shock and awe" effect I guess...

It seems this round wouldn't be hard to make yourself but I don't know diddly about reloading etc. so I might be wrong.

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#5 RED333

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:16 PM

I have been thinking on this and I am gone tell you not to try to make any.
If what ever you use exploades in the barrel, well it will be very bad.
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Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#6 1mile50

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:51 PM

Testing will be done at a range and with a single shot device, arrangments are made. Legality will be verified after a set of test loads are determained.


You might want to verify legality, before you show up at the range with it. Dragon's Breath, Flechette, and Bolo shotgun shells are illegal here in Florida, and this is a gun friendly state.

#7 Gaddis

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 06:10 PM

Hmm, somehow having a obvious young kid describing how to construct one doesn't really inspire confidence in me. :unsure:


I wouldn't mind being the meat in the center of a Jael De Pardo / Chi Lan Lieu sammich.

Of course to be the meat in a Jaime Pressly / Nadine Velazquez sammich wouldn't be too shabby either.

#8 Gaddis

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 06:21 PM

Besides, the real Dragon's Breath rounds are supposedly made with some sort of a powdered zirconium base. Posted Image
I wouldn't mind being the meat in the center of a Jael De Pardo / Chi Lan Lieu sammich.

Of course to be the meat in a Jaime Pressly / Nadine Velazquez sammich wouldn't be too shabby either.

#9 G O B

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:18 PM

If you want a flash, use flour! That stuff makes a big bawoooom!

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#10 Ronin38

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:03 AM

Yeah, be very, very careful messing around with explosives and flammable materials. Please!


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#11 G O B

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:40 AM

^^^^ Like that. Flour and rock salt makes a big boooom like that^^^^.
Never got a chance to find out how it was loaded - my little feet were running too fast to ask!

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#12 ZM 1306

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 05:03 PM


Testing will be done at a range and with a single shot device, arrangements are made. Legality will be verified after a set of test loads are determined.


You might want to verify legality, before you show up at the range with it. Dragon's Breath, Flechette, and Bolo shotgun shells are illegal here in Florida, and this is a gun friendly state.



I'm going to verify the legality before I load them. I was hoping to get a few more ideas on what to make, then I know what to check the legality of.



Besides, the real Dragon's Breath rounds are supposedly made with some sort of a powdered zirconium base. Posted Image



I was watching some old video talking about shot gun rounds and it said "Magnesium Pellets" for the Dragons Breath. I would suppose there are a few different ways. What would be the best option for the hand-loader.
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#13 patriot

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 05:31 PM

Remember, the Saiga is a gas gun. If you get magnesium in the gas system it will be very bad.

I'd pass on running it through ANY gas gun. A pump, single shot, or recoil operated gun would be OK.
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#14 -Indy-

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:12 PM

The temperatures that magnesium hits when it burns is 3100 degrees... not so sure if I would want THAT running through my barrel of ANY of my firearms!!!

Not to mention that you CANNOT put out a magnesium fire with either CO2 or water... and it burns in nitrogen too!!

not something to fuck with for those unfamiliar with it...


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#15 Ben Vampatella

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:00 AM

good GOD, that video of the kid makes me wince. He is not only mashing the shell primer down onto pieces of metal, but he has his damn finger in there, also mashing the crap down onto the primer face. I wonder if this kid still has a thumb these days.

Also, turning magnesium is not exactly a simple matter, and i suggest ya leave that all to the machinists, and just buy the magnesium filings like you can get at the chem supply. If you ignite the piece you are turning them of cutting them from, you are gonna have a serious issue with your tools being freaking welded or melted, nevermind the sparks flying when it initially ignites in proximity to your body.

use a birdshot load, open the shell, dump the shot, hand drill a small hole in the wad, and dump some magnesium in the shot cup. I would suggest not using too fine a product, as it will explode out the muzzle, similar to flour, but WAY WAY worse for the end user.

you guys are on your own with this particular one, short of what I said there, as Im not going to be held liable for any damages or fires that ensue from experimentation.

My suggestion is that you order a couple rounds of it from someone that makes them, that has the insurance and permits, and take one apart, to get the general idea. its 15 bucks well spent, I would guess. I cracked a break action's frame while building up some serious flechette loads back in the day, so I do understand how dangerous experimental loads can be. But then again, I had some bad assed handloads back then, that I still make for myself once in a while, but would NEVER go into production on them, for liability reasons.

It only takes one shithead to sue you, to make all your work for naught.

Edited by Ben Vampatella, 14 June 2012 - 07:01 AM.

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#16 Gaddis

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:18 PM

Problem is, in shitholes like NJ, they probably wouldn't even send Dragon's Breath rounds there. Posted Image

Just another avenue to explore for people who like giving the big middle finger to the authority figures in states such as that. :devil:
I wouldn't mind being the meat in the center of a Jael De Pardo / Chi Lan Lieu sammich.

Of course to be the meat in a Jaime Pressly / Nadine Velazquez sammich wouldn't be too shabby either.

#17 ZM 1306

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:38 PM

Would these turnings be applicable, http://www.mcssl.com...ings-227-grams.

By production I meant for personal use, if I find a load that suits my wants I will sock up on quite a few.


Ben Vampatella

Would you be willing to give info on your flechette loads?
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#18 RobRez

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 03:07 PM

Boy-oh-boy< I know it must be hard to resist something with the words "Dragon" and "Tactical" in it's description,.....uh, yeah,......anyway, I am with Red on this one. Don't do it. Regular "Dragons Breath" is enough of a Let-down and waste, as is "Flechette" ammo.
At best you have a dangerous waste of time and money.......I don't even want to contemplate your worst outcome.
We had a neighbor try to make home-made fireworks once, his garage blew-up when he was making some. He managed to stumble across the street with MOST of his skin falling off, fell to the ground and died in the hospital.
Home-made incindiary rounds????/ No-Thanks!!!

#19 Gaddis

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 06:20 PM

What would we post on Ebaum's World then? :devil:
I wouldn't mind being the meat in the center of a Jael De Pardo / Chi Lan Lieu sammich.

Of course to be the meat in a Jaime Pressly / Nadine Velazquez sammich wouldn't be too shabby either.

#20 RED333

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 06:34 PM

ZM, AGAIN I AM ASKING YOU NOT TO DO THIS, IT WILL BE BAD WHEN (NOT IF, IT WILL) IT GOES BOOM OR MELTS THE BARREL OFF YOU FIREARM, PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS!

Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#21 scoutjoe

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:19 AM

So you want to punch holes in things and light them on fire at the same time? I've shot Dragons breath before, they don't sell the "good" ones anymore, at least not where I can find them. Just the cheaper offerings from the Hi-vel guys at the same price.

I can tell you that running it through the Saiga-12 is a pretty bad idea, but I'd like to buy your bolt carrier and bolt for spares when the rest of the gun becomes un-usable.

Edited by scoutjoe, 21 June 2012 - 10:20 AM.

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#22 ZM 1306

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 06:10 AM

I just didn't want to go-into this blind to be a little bit safer I thought I would try and get some tips.
"don't do it" messages don't inform me of anything, not that I don't appreciate your warnings.

I am interested in making some of these rounds one way or another, I would be grateful for any tips for making the round.




I was thinking of using the standard powder charge that's in a "off the shelf" shot shell.
I want a cheap stock of rounds that will light things on fire. There are many applications and magnesium's trait to burn in water is desirable.

I will continue development of these rounds just with less information if no one will lend their [helpful] incite... (Yes, its dangerous and I am aware of this)
Right of Revolution

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#23 ZM 1306

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 04:16 PM

Chromium melting point 3465 °F

4140 Steel melting point 2580 °F

Magnesium burning temp 5,610 °F (3,100 °C)


"Zirconium powders can auto-ignite in air when dry. It is extremely sensitive to shock, heat, friction and static electricity." - sounds unstable...
Right of Revolution

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

#24 liberty -r- death

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:55 PM

As a firefighter that has dealt with Magnesium fires I would go with RED333's advice. Don't do it. It's not worth the pain or death it may cause you if things go wrong. See it all the time in my line of work. Stupid hurts.

I you choose to ignore the good advice RED333 mentioned then a Class "D" fire extinguisher would be good to have around if you mess with Magnesium. Not cheap and may not extinguisher it and it may still burn, but it's about the only thing that will work on it.
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#25 ZM 1306

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 07:02 PM

From my readings on magnesium fires having a lot of sand would help too.

Since this I was introduced to termite and want the ignition system of this to work so I can work on termite slugs (wax binder)

And you guys thought that magnesium was bad news....
Right of Revolution

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#26 Ronin38

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 05:33 AM

I'm not sure how effective it would be to bind a handful of termites in wax and shoot them at something... I guess they could chew through a building, eventually. ;)

I'm guessing you mean "thermite." Please try not to immolate yourself.

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#27 GunFun

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 12:54 PM

They sell most of the components for thermite, tannerite, as well as magnesium and titanium shavings by the pound on Amazon. While you are at it, stock up on first aid supplies. Remember, if you order more than $30 worth of things that will kill you at once on Amazon you get free shipping.
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#28 msrdiver

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:29 PM

This post is dripping with sarcasm intended to keep ZM 1306 ALIVE, healthy, and to challenge the rest of us.

So I'm asking everyone to give a shout out, off the top of your head, justification for the following quote. "There are many applications and magnesium's trait to burn in water is desirable."

I'll start with: Ya mon! I too like a Flechette Filet of Flounder Fish Flash steamed while Floating up. Fresh is tastier, no way around it. : )



Class D Extinguisher = $$$ Should SHTF, who is brave enough to stand near enough to put your toasted tush out?
http://fireextinguis...inguishers.html

Edited by msrdiver, 22 September 2012 - 07:36 PM.

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#29 ZM 1306

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 07:39 AM

I had forgotten about this, thought I should check on it...

 

I had kinda given up on this idea, like so many, it is packed away in with piles of others. Since I have been drawing up plans for a full force FlameThrower. If any one is interested I want to build a biz that makes and sells them and related accessories.

 

 

 

@ msrdiver

 

As for the quote "There are many applications and magnesium's trait to burn in water is desirable.", in the original post "The flechette darts are to aid in lethality if it was used on an attacker, but primary pourpose would be to shread up the target and work in some burning magnisium." should clear up any mystery if you are not aware of the intent behind the statements, remember people are mostly water.

 

 

 

If SHTF I would bet a group of attackers would be greatly demoralized when a fellow of theirs burns from the inside out...

 

 

@ liberty -r- death and others mentioning the fire extinguishers

 

 I happen to collect fire extinguishers, a little while back I was at a "garage" sale and found a cool automatic class d extinguisher... has a little mechanical pin that is tripped by a spring and has a sprinkler head on it. I suppose I like them because of my respect of fire, be prepared and all that.

 

 

 

Too many fire based devices to build, too much procrastination to build them. Bad at spelling and no spell check... or am I missing it?

 

Well, thanks everyone for their input. Yall have a good one.


Edited by ZM 1306, 20 December 2013 - 07:44 AM.

Right of Revolution

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

#30 blackknight135

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:56 PM

You'll need a NPK extingisher. The only reason it will work is because it will take away the oxygen faster than the burning magnesium can produce it. I would suggest a good chemist and a BIG life insurance policy, your wife and kids will need it.


Edited by blackknight135, 20 December 2013 - 11:59 PM.






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