Odd Man Out asking for your opinion to help decide

[Redhunter2486 22]

X39 and 30-30 are pretty weak compared to the .308. The stockpile argument is the only plus side over .308 and that's not nearly as strong of an argument on this side of the Atlantic - many more bullet options in the .308 too

 

 

 

Edit- i really want an ar-10 in .308 but just not sure if theres 600 dollars more of gun there over the vepr .308 any own both that can comment?

Edited December 15, 2012 by Redhunter2486

[RobRez 1,895]

X39 and 30-30 are pretty weak compared to the .308. The stockpile argument is the only plus side over .308 and that's not nearly as strong of an argument on this side of the Atlantic - many more bullet options in the .308 too

 

 

 

Edit- i really want an ar-10 in .308 but just not sure if theres 600 dollars more of gun there over the vepr .308 any own both that can comment?

I had an AR-10. Very accurate. I sold it and stuck with my S-.308. I enjoy the simplicity and I think the accuracy, although not as good was still very acceptable for hunting. Even in the most normal of survival situations, when you are in the mountains, can simply be a power outage that could last possibly weeks. Cleaning and maintaining an AR platform by Candle light just seems "Less than desireable" to me. It is a simple matter of fewer parts to deal with to me. Saiga accuracy is great and the ease of living is top knotch.

I still seem to think from what I have gathered, is that you need to go get a good used 30-06 rifle for hunting and leave the home defense to your Saiga 12. The bolt gun will be pretty darn cheap!

There is not anything easier to maintain than a bolt action rifle.

Edited December 15, 2012 by RobRez

[theorangeplanet 968]

Is 7.62x39 made here? If not I can see the supply being squeezed off rather easily -- I know there is boucoup available currently but in the future????

 

All of the major US ammo makers offer 7.62x39 in various loads. My Wally World only carries Winchester FMJ and Remington Corelokt.

 

I don't think you can make a better choice than a Saiga 762. I assume you're like most of us and not filthy rich, so it's also the most economical choice. Take a grand, you can drop on the rifle for $400 give or take, another $100 for a PG conversion, $200 for 1k rounds of ammo, $100 for 6 or 7 quality surplus magazines, and you're still left with $200 to add to the gun or just put back in your pocket.

 

If you're got more than a grand to spend, just start stacking them deep...

[ironhead7544 35]

I would go for the AK in 7.62x39 in your case. Better for hunting. Ammo is made here. Dont count on getting any ammo if something happens. It will dry up right away. Get it while you can.

[VR762Shooter 838]

My Wally World only carries Winchester FMJ and Remington Corelokt.

 

At least you have 2 choices. If it aint Tula here its Winchester white box, 20 rounds or the value pack 40, both over priced

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

We have a few commmercial choices in 7.62 here.

[mostholycerebus 415]

I NEED a rifle. My requirements for the weapon is the following:

1. High capacity

2. Able to be used for self defense.

3. Able to be used for hunting -- close to mid distance, nothing long range.

4. It would be a safe queen until a SHTF sit occurred

 

I do not plan to ever need to "snipe" people

I do not plan to ever go on the offensive with said weapon

The only reason I would ever point it at another human would be to defend my family

 

1. Virtually any rifle that takes a mag can do this

2. 5.56, 7.62x39 or .308, in order from fastest to slowest dropping

3. 7.62x39 in 150gr is as good as 30-30, good to 200-300 yards

4. Vepr

 

Im not sure a pistol caliber carbine is going to give you decent range in a carbine, especially big slow .45ACP. You would get more distance out of .40S&W or +P+ 9mm, but id rather have the 7.62x39. Cheap mags, cheap ammo, cheap rifle (relatively), great to 200 yards and you can try for farther if you ever need too. My dad has the Vepr and it looks beautiful in the safe.

 

The best rounds for home defense are 5.56 and 12ga #1 buck, but a good hollow point and 7.62 fills that role as well. Just be aware of whats behind if you miss, this round doesnt tumble and slow as fast as the others.

 

If your eyes are like mine, the 7.62x39 is definitely accurate 'enough' to far 'enough'. If I was an eagle eyed sniper, .308 at 300+ yards is the best option. But at the distances I can see and hit, its hard to beat 7.62x39 and the reliable simplicity of an AK pattern.

Edited December 15, 2012 by mostholycerebus

[BpS12 512]

Yes, I think most major ammo makers produce it now. But because foreign ammo is so cheap, they do not yet have the need to ramp up production enough to bring their prices down.

[RED333 1,025]

I am getting one of these for my G22 in 40S&W.

http://mechtechsys.com/index.php#

[thebuns1 4,323]

One thing to consider too Odd man, is that if your going to use this for one purpose and one purpose only, you wont need to stockpile 10k rounds, but just around 1k or so and around 6-8 mags.

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

But if 1K is good.......

 

Thanks all for your input. To be honest I have spent the last couple days immersing myself in guns -- it is all swirling. I agree that the .45 carbine is out. I seem to be focusing on the following -either:

 

1. .308 bolt action hunting rifle

2. FN FS2000

3. Colt LE6940P

 

Talk about a screwy selection but I'm leaning towards the Colt. Anyone have any specific con's???

 

And again, THANKS for all your input -- this is one great forum!!!

[TheDarkHorse 216]

7.62 x 39 is all over the world, and yes, plenty to be had right here under old glory. Everyone makes it now.

[Redhunter2486 22]

You can buy a cheap bolt .308 that'll shoot sub moa and several hundred rds and a good scope and be at the same price as the colt or fn just for the gun

 

Savage mossberg ruger's new "american" - all of these brands bottom line gun will shoot sub moa and will still be shooting sub moa when your worm food

Edited December 16, 2012 by Redhunter2486

[thebuns1 4,323]

I would also consider keeping it a semi-auto. You can hunt and effectivley kill deer and other bigger game with a 5.56. If your leaning towards the Colt, then by all means get it. You cant go wrong with it. A bolt action hunting rifle is not a bad choice either, but for me, would be on the bottom of my list. Only reason being is that not if, but when this ban will eventually get here, obtaining a semi auto will likely be much harder. If at all even possible, where as a bolt action rifle will likely be left off the ban list, at least for a little while. And for a good all around SHTF carbine, I feel the high cap semi auto will prove to be the better performer. Especially if you do have to use it against two legged game.

 

I do like the FN offering to. But me being the way I am, Id like to have a few spare parts that would be easier to obtain, should the need arise. But in all reality, there is so many "what if" scenarios that could come to pass, that I try to focus on the ones Im most likely to face in my area and go from there. What works great for me here in the south may not work as good for you in your location. I trust you'll make the right choice Odd Man.

[Redhunter2486 22]

5.56 isn't strong enough for a lot of hunting applications, if you had a good broadside shot 100yds or less, yes it would be fine. It's a pretty well accepted fact that about 900 ft/lbs is whats humanely needed to kill deer sized game ( I beleive it can easily be done with less at close ranges with clean/precise shots) if you have to take a quarter shot to get to vitals you could be spending days following bad blood trails to get to half spoiled meat. If its up to me I'd like to be able to take a 300yd shot under bad conditions if needed to provide for my family.

[slippingaway 89]

I am following this thread closely myself. I'm torn between a .223 or a .762x39. Out on the range today a friend handed me a SIG in .223 and, going from S12 to that I was still braced for the impact, to find none. The lack of recoil meant I was able to be very accurate. Just like there is no "one-size fits all" for a knife, the same applies to guns.

[Redhunter2486 22]

It's interesting the thinking behind the 5.56, light so more can be carried longer, it neutralizes enemies, I've heard people say the reasoning behind it is that it takes more people out of fights to carry wounded- I don't know for sue. My brother is a Marine and was excited to take a r-15 (remington's AR variant) deer hunting and after shooting two deer in vital areas and having to track them a ways he uses his 300win mag again. I wouldn't doubt the kill power of the 5.56 except when you compare it to 7.62x39 or .308

[sparky63 46]

i would get a bullet resistant vest [3a] at the minamum ,your armament is fine,how many can you carry at once anyway,good luck

[sccritterkiller 473]

5.56 isn't strong enough for a lot of hunting applications, if you had a good broadside shot 100yds or less, yes it would be fine. It's a pretty well accepted fact that about 900 ft/lbs is whats humanely needed to kill deer sized game ( I beleive it can easily be done with less at close ranges with clean/precise shots) if you have to take a quarter shot to get to vitals you could be spending days following bad blood trails to get to half spoiled meat. If its up to me I'd like to be able to take a 300yd shot under bad conditions if needed to provide for my family.

 

+1

 

5.56 is great for predator hunting, yotes and the like, but I wouldn't want to rely on it for anything bigger. .308 is great for hunting bigger game but for most people a AR-10 platform is too heavy to hunt with on a regular basis or in a SHTF situation. Although it is not a very popular round the 6.8 is best of both worlds...It's light like a 5.56 platform but has a lot more stopping power. I like the SSA Sierra 110gr pro hunter round it is great for pigs and deer.

[Redhunter2486 22]

i love the 6.8, one of the most inherently accurate rounds there is you wont find and mil surplus of it though

[thebuns1 4,323]

Ive had good results using a .223 against hogs. Ive shot them with the new Winchester Razorback loads and only had two cases where I needed follow up shots. And if your needing at least 900 ft/lbs, then the 75 gr. .223 will give you that out to 200 yds.

[Redhunter2486 22]

Not to hijack the thread but I'm really wanting to drive down south and do some pig hunting in march I live in Idaho though, hope gas is cheap!

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

No hijack, just free speech --

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

Ive had good results using a .223 against hogs. Ive shot them with the new Winchester Razorback loads and only had two cases where I needed follow up shots. And if your needing at least 900 ft/lbs, then the 75 gr. .223 will give you that out to 200 yds.

5.56 works, have dropped many but I go for head shots. I'll mention again the RFB. Pretty versatile and plenty power.

[Redhunter2486 22]

That's a nice hog, game ranch or a real wild one?

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

That's 2 hogs actually. I own a ranch and manage the whitetail population and we shoot the porkers on sight. The population here is around 4 million with no predators so they are a nuisance. My dogs eat well.

[Redhunter2486 22]

Nice, I shoot my elk from my porch a lot years- I've always wanted to get a big boar though, I've heard it can be a pretty cheap hunt if you get in touch with the right people, ie farmers

 

Do you run them with dogs?

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

No. I don't want my dogs hurt and besides there is no need. No shortage of these. 2 weeks ago while in the deer blind I took a shot at 1 of 12. He was a large boar. I figured I missed because he and the others booked. The next day while checking the fenceline there he was. He got about 60-80 yds and then was done.

30.06 ballistic tip. I aimed for the shoulder and hit about 12 inches back. He was running obliquely so I did not lead him enough but the round did not exit. All the energy was expended in him. They are tough but so is that round.

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

5.56 isn't strong enough for a lot of hunting applications, if you had a good broadside shot 100yds or less, yes it would be fine. It's a pretty well accepted fact that about 900 ft/lbs is whats humanely needed to kill deer sized game ( I beleive it can easily be done with less at close ranges with clean/precise shots) if you have to take a quarter shot to get to vitals you could be spending days following bad blood trails to get to half spoiled meat. If its up to me I'd like to be able to take a 300yd shot under bad conditions if needed to provide for my family.

 

+1

 

5.56 is great for predator hunting, yotes and the like, but I wouldn't want to rely on it for anything bigger. .308 is great for hunting bigger game but for most people a AR-10 platform is too heavy to hunt with on a regular basis or in a SHTF situation. Although it is not a very popular round the 6.8 is best of both worlds...It's light like a 5.56 platform but has a lot more stopping power. I like the SSA Sierra 110gr pro hunter round it is great for pigs and deer.

 

223 can be effective for huning large game. Comes down to shot placement, and bullet design can help. Soft point or hollow point would be a good choice for a hunting load.

 

The show about the families that live in the small town in Alaska comes to mind. The young guy shoots an Ar15 and takes down Elk and other large animals pretty often. This guy lives off the land with his family in Alaska. If he can do it so can you.

[Redhunter2486 22]

I don't doubt it would work- I'd just argue its not the best option. There's an Alaskan trapper who killed a kodiak bear with a .22 revolver just a luck shot as he was about to get mauled, he carries a 375 nitro with the .22 while checking traps today.