I have a question I am not sure the answer to

[Bvamp 604]

I am considering loading several 12 guage shells with an extremely potent hot pepper powder. Im wondering if anyone knows if this is even legal to do, as it isnt discharged by aresol, but by a powder charge in a firearm. I already tested some of the powder by blowing it into the air outside, and I was pretty sorry that I did it. I cant imagine a full 3" shell of the stuff going POOF indoors.

 

anybody know if this is legal to do? in general? not state by state.

[G O B 3,516]

?????? I don't see why not, they sell peppergas rounds. Also try some rock salt and flour rounds.(use outdoors only)

 

G O B

[Bvamp 604]

i have rocksalt loads i made...

 

question on the flour rounds. i know they make a fireball, but is there any risk of them being explosive? I would think powdered pepper would do the same thing almost.

[ditchdigger 0]

I think firing one in a confined space would be effective on an attacker but without a full face mask and air filter the shooter might feel some seriously unpleasant effects as well from the resulting pepper cloud.

[SaltPeter 6]

According to this,

 

It is unlawful to possess a bullet containing an explosive substance designed to detonate upon impact or possess any armor piercing ammunition with intent to use unlawfully against another.

That's actually less restrictive than Florida (believe it or not) which outlaws armor piercing rounds, exploding rounds, "dragons breath" shells, and fletchette shells.

 

I know of no federal laws that prohibit pepper ammunition.

 

Other than that, incidentally, Florida has some of the best gun laws in the nation. We actually make laws to protect gun owners, manufacturers, dealers, and other law abiding citizens:

 

Under Florida law, there is no "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a lawful right to be. Instead, you may stand your ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others.

 

Florida has mandatory sentence enhancements for any serious felony, such as murder, rape, aggravated assault, burglary or robbery, committed with a firearm. The penalty is increased if a machine gun or a semiautomatic firearm with magazine capacity of more than 20 centerfire cartridges is possessed during a serious felony or narcotics offense.

 

The state legislature has preempted the regulation of firearms and ammunition. No political subdivision of the state may bring legal action against a firearms or ammunition manufacturer or distributor for the legal manufacture, marketing, distribution, and sale of firearms and ammunition.

 

Owners, operators, and users of sport shooting ranges have limited liability for the accumulation of any projectiles on their range.

 

Sorry if I got off topic.

Edited November 5, 2005 by SaltPeter

[Bvamp 604]

saltpeter, next time you have a chance, check out NY law. it states somewhere in the arms laws that there is something called a "dangerous knife", and Ive searched through the definitions of various parts of NY law, and lo and behold, I cant seem to find what this "dangerous knife" is.

[Caspian 32]

would these be for indoor or outdoor use?

[Bvamp 604]

I was thinking for indoor use, but my first test outside with a small amount makes me think it might do well outside as well.

 

I still have to look a couple of things up in my states' lawbooks before I go ahead and make a full round of it.

[Caspian 32]

are you planning on encapsulating it or just pouring in powdered cayanne powder?

[Bvamp 604]

Im not sure yet, probably will try both. why do you ask?

[Caspian 32]

if you plan on packing it loosely and shooting in a confined area or outdoors on a windy day, then i think we'll be reading about you in the firearm darwin awards.

 

i thought you were fishing when you first brought up the idea, but i see you are serious. if so, be very careful.

 

think about it, the powder will essentially vaporize. if you've ever shot indoors or outside for that matter, and smelled burnt gunpowder, then you would be able to smell (and be affected by) the hot pepper.

 

don't take my word for it, try it. but please video tape it for all of us to enjoy. <don't take that sentence personally, i would have said it to anyone who came up with the idea>

 

Now, if you plan on encapsulating it, you may have a shot. however, finding a suitable capsule which would withstand being fired yet not penetrate you 2 legged target will be difficult if not impossible. using a capsule full of hot pepper which is capable of penetrating a person is opening youself up for a huge lawsuit if you ever use it. that exact thing happened earlier this year when a cop shot a pepper 12 gauge capsule into a crowd to disperse it and the capsule hit a chick in the eye and she died.

 

I'd worry about feasiblity of the idea before you worry about laws.

 

caspian

Edited November 5, 2005 by Caspian

[dinzag 31]

I don't know about delivery methods, but maybe we could get Cobra to dehydrate some of his habanero sauce for testing!

[jon elia 0]

i did it with salt before b you kinda gotta be close up,...and back the 1 pepper up with 000 buck

[G O B 3,516]

As I remember (from 40 years ago) when the farmer shot the rocksalt/flour rounds, it made a white flash and cloud the size of a house. A large soft BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM. Kept most of the kids out of his watermelon patch! Being a wise ass from an early age, I hit the dirt, letting the rest of the gang get rocksalt welts- I knew it was a single shot, so after the boom THEN I ran away with my watermelon!

 

G O B

[Bvamp 604]

the effect im looking for is similar to what you are saying, caspian. I thought about maybe making a packed chunk of it for firing onto a wall/floor near someone, and having the ability to still drop the person if im being rushed or whatever. never know when it will happen to you, is what im saying.

 

Im really just concerned with explosiveness of it in powder form indoors, and also if Im looking at making something illegal. and Im not using cayanne, either, just so you know. I would love to film my reaction to it, but I fear I will never live it down, so you can forget about it

 

If I can gas a room with it and run, Ill be happy. Maybe I will make capsules of it out of milk jug plastic and see how that fairs first.

[jon elia 0]

hey bvamp....i dont know how feasible this is but since i know you load sabots heres an idea i been thiniking about...

 

get some ground habenero pepper, my old ladys dad grows em and has a bunch so if you need some i might could get you some, but cast it into a sabot using like corn syrup or something to make it stick, then bake it to make it hard.

 

instead of rock salt or peper chunks you get a big stinging ass piece of something stuck in the intruder

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Hey B have you considered using some of that liquid hell I sent you instead of powder? It would probably vaporize and have the same effect. Just pour a little in there, put some kind of little plastic press fit lid on it (milk jug), and seal with wax. There's nothing you can't burn with my habanero sauce!

[G O B 3,516]

How about liquid pepper in a plastic bag? No chance of fire. and a plastic bag can be made any size with a hot knife. Shot cups and plastic wads can be leathal at short ranges, so the round will need felt wads.

 

G O B

[Gaddis 1,689]

Why not just buy some of the fuckers?

 

No need to re-invent a wheel that already exists.

[Wolverine 10,360]

Why not just buy some of the fuckers?

 

No need to re-invent a wheel that already exists.

 

 

How much does a fucker cost and what does that have to do with a wheel?

[ditchdigger 0]

Isn't there some kind of cayanne "pepper ball" made for paintball guns that police use to control rioters and such? I seem to remember seeing some cop playing test dummy on the History channel or Discovery channel taking a few to the chest and getting a cloud of pepper right in his face. I think sealing the pepper in some kind of bladder strong enough to stay intact but then burst on impact would be the way to go. Did someone say you could buy shells loaded with pepper? where? Are they LEO only?

[G O B 3,516]

The "paint ball" tear gas round is what killed that girl when the untrained cop shot her in the eye.

There are LESS lethal projectiles, but there are NO "nonlethal" projectiles.

 

 

G O B

[pistonring8 1]

Yup, they are all LESS lethal. And thats exactly why. To be able to hit a person with less chance of penetration, or fill a room without punching through the wall and have the cloud of noxious fume effect, I would suggest no more than a cheap bird shot load from Walmart. You know, they come in a box of 20 or so for like 8 bucks. The brass at the bottom looks like a ladies wedding ring. Dump out the shot, stuff a little plastic baggie of ouch powder in there and close it back up. Go out back and pop one off and see what happens! Then adjust for flavor. If your scared, shoot it with a piece of string like us homemade reciever guys!

 

Like GOB said, any kind of plastic wad at velocity will most likely penetrate. Where can I buy a box of "Fuckers"?! Sounds like a cool round.

[Gaddis 1,689]

Why not just buy some of the fuckers?

 

No need to re-invent a wheel that already exists.

 

 

How much does a fucker cost and what does that have to do with a wheel?

 

Hmm, I guess howmuchever the scheister lawyer takes for his personal fee after he sues the gun company after you blow your dumb ass up trying to make homemade pepper shells, I guess?

 

And yes, they come already loaded. Firequest International (webpage online somewhere, I'm sure) carries them. Some of their cheaper offerings too, I might add.

 

I'm suprised you don't get their catalog in your mailbox already if you have ever bought any gun shit mail order at least once in your lifetime.

[Bvamp 604]

pisotnring: EIGHT BUCKS FOR TWENTY SHELLS! holy shit man, thats a lot! I pay 4 for a box of 25 AA trap loads. "the good stuff".

 

yeh I like the idea of the liquid.

 

what Im really thinking is this: If just say by chance i do have to shoot an intruder, I would have physical proof that my intention wasnt to kill the person, and thus not be able to be sued or be sent to jail by the facist pigs I would have to deal with after said incident. never mind I could render half the house unbearable for a group of intruders with a single shot. if someone charged through the crap after that, thats damn good cause to shoot to kill at that point.

[IndyArms 10,186]

Bvamp... NYS penal code STATES VERY CLEARLY...

 

Anyone breaking into your home to commit burglary or attempted burglary, ( to me that translates into stepping over my doorstep thru a window! etc..)

 

you have the RIGHT to use EXCESSIVE DEADLY FORCE...

 

fuck pepper spray... kill the fucker.

 

[pistonring8 1]

Look at it this way Bvamp, if you put a 3 inch load of 00 in an intruders chest, there will be only one side to the story when the facist pigs question you about it.

 

[Bvamp 604]

there is always, always another side to it. what the government people want to think. its funny on how what officials THINK (not what they can prove) is half or more of the battle in criminal matters.

 

indy: I didnt say I wouldnt pop someone point blank with it. a dead perp's family and next of kin CAN sue you. civil matters as we all know are a totally different story. its not what you can prove (or twist it into in most cases), but if its MORE LIKELY THAN NOT. and that leaves a mighty WIDE grey area open.

[SaltPeter 6]

I've got a couple of boxes of these. I fired a couple in my garage and, damn! Spicy!

[fosgate 0]

What's the rule? If an attacker is within 25 ft (or is it 35ft) from you and your pistol hasn't cleared leather your the one who's dead. I love the question in training if the departments should go back to the .45 and about half the guys raise their hand. (trick question) More stopping power right? Then they show a picture of a guy who's heart was basicly filleted by a 45 and ask if that is enough. Same guys say yeah. Then the instructor said the guy charged 30more ft and shot off 10 more rounds before he went down. If you don't hit brain or spinal cord it ain't gonna matter what you hit them with. Bottom line someone's in my house trying to do who knows what and on who knows what (meth, PCP), I ain't fucking around with a non leathal shot. I'm shooting a lethal shot at center mass. That way I'm not giving him the opportunity to sue by me wounding him.

 

I loved living in Wyoming where the trespassing law was basically ask someone to leave if they don't you can legally fire on them. Here in SD we have to ask someone to leave and if they refuse call the police and press "Failure to Vacate" charges. But if breaking and entering...GAME ON!