New York. Quesion about transporting firarms from NY to MT.

[storm6490 2,768]

Hi guys! A friend of mine went home to be with his dad a few months ago. His dad got cancer and they were able to hunt and trap bear, deer and almost anything that had fur. At the end, his old man died peacefully before the unconstitutional codified statues limited magazines to seven rounds in that state.

 

He need to go back home again soon and pick up his dad's firearms that were willed to him. The first trip will be all the sporting rifles that will soon need a permit. He is a resident of Montana and will be driving into northern NY to his mothers home to help clean up and take his stuff back home.

 

Are there any steps or measures to take in order to transport these firearms on the level? I suggested a will statement notarized with all the serial numbers of the firearms signed by his mom and notary along with photos of the firearms and an itinerary for the trip. I also suggested to drive south and avoid Illinois.

 

Are there any restrictions on transporting a load of rifles from NY to MT?

 

I appreciate your insight, thanks.

 

 

 

 

Ammo separate, locked cases, load into hotel at night, .... clean car, current tags.....

Edited March 18, 2013 by Stryker0946

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Send them UPS? (or via another preferred carrier?) He can legally send them to himself C/O another person, or just to his own address.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/34686-shipping-a-gun/?hl=%29

[devildogdakota 804]

Probably not the greatest suggestion, but if I was transferring the rifles/mags from NY, I would do what they do when smuggling "things" across the border, and hide the stuff taken apart in the hidey holes/ panels of the vehicles, due to the bullshit laws/ loopholes that NY will find, just to make examples of people, with their new tyrannical law. I would also have all supporting paperwork related to the stuff, just in case by the stroke of bad luck that I was possible stopped, and "they" happened to want to take my vehicle apart. I'm dead serious.

[Voltia 375]

He needs to load the truck up and bury the guns underneath all the other shit and leave one Sunday morning 30 min before dawn and not stop

until the state line. Detouring into PA is recommended.

[storm6490 2,768]

Send them UPS? (or via another preferred carrier?) He can legally send them to himself C/O another person, or just to his own address.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/34686-shipping-a-gun/?hl=%29

Too damn many boxes! It would get extremely expensive quick with shipping (timely), tracking, insurance and packaging. These are his deceased fathers so it would probably be hard to trust the goof balls at UPS, FEDEX or USPS. He shipped a scoped elk rifle out and there was damage with insurance. The scope got busted up and UPS would not insure it.

 

I think the only way he will do it is by car.

 

reading this at the moment... look at that! my membership paid off! ... i hope.... ?

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/articles/2010/guide-to-the-interstate-transportation.aspx

[RobRez 1,895]

I would just load em up an drive back with them. Keep em in the back of the truck in cases and go....but I have driven cross country a few times. Really, it is an uneventfull journey if you drive normally. No need to worry if you aren't driving fast and your lights all work and reggie is up to date.

[storm6490 2,768]

Just reading the NRA thing, the freaking east coast is a gauntlet! What a shit hole where carrying a firearm outside your home is a felony. Show me the victim mother fucker!

 

If Korea nukes us, I hope they hit NY first. ... no, no, that's not PC.... I don't want the good people hurt... Maybe aim for DC

[Dysfunctional 63]

Follow the NRA guide. We'll probably unintentionally get your friend in trouble if he takes our advice and gets stopped. Does he get stopped a lot by the police?

Edited March 18, 2013 by Dysfunctional

[menace667 194]

Advice:

1) Mail all questionable capacity detachable magazines to his residence in Montana. This is one easy option to avoids the possibility of law violations.

 

2) Avoid known unfriendly gun states/cities. Regardless of how "good" he drives, out of state tags are a magnet for traffic stops. I was a cop and know that they are targeted for tickets because the possibility of them fighting the ticket in court is limited and goes down the farther the state is from the location of the cutation.

 

3) While traveling, ensure all weapons are separate from their ammo. Also, make sure that they are stored, at minimum, inside storage containers and preferably locked also. Having the ammo locked in a container is also a better option if available

 

4) Remember that a search is not the right of an officer and there is no requirement that you give consent. Always say no and make him determine "probable cause". one thing to remember is that laws vary from state to state. Some states do not require you to have a permit, but do require you to notify any officer of the presence of firearms. Charting a course and then determining what laws he will need to be familiar with prior to setting off could save him time and headache.

 

Think of it like this: he gets stopped in a place that requires him to notify the officer he has weapons but he does not know it. The officer sees what he knows to be a case for a firearm in the vehicle. This would give him what is called "articulable reasonable suspicion" and he can now look at that specific object to verify or remove his concerns. When opened he confirms it is a gun and now he is arrestsd by the young officer. He gets a single charge of illegal possession. Now he has to do a inventory offhe vehicle and finds the rest and each carries its own separate charge. These things happen far too often.

[storm6490 2,768]

Follow the NRA guide. We'll probably unintentionally get your friend in trouble if he takes our advice and gets stopped. Does he get stopped a lot by the police?

I don't recall him ever getting pulled over. He's a stand up guy but, if some union pensioner tried to take his rifles away, he would pobably go Rambo on the state. I've driven all over America with firearms in the car. Never once had a problem and even had a few speeding tickets. Professionalism goes a long way.

 

Heck, I might even go with him if the wife will let me get away from my family for a few days. I could be the pilot only I would have legal maps instead of road maps!

 

The federal law is interesting, amazing how certain states will follow the feds to the T if it involves federal funding but when they don't like protections for the people without any greasing of the wheels, they ignore it.

 

Advice:

1) Mail all questionable capacity detachable magazines to his residence in Montana. This is one easy option to avoids the possibility of law violations.

 

2) Avoid known unfriendly gun states/cities. Regardless of how "good" he drives, out of state tags are a magnet for traffic stops. I was a cop and know that they are targeted for tickets because the possibility of them fighting the ticket in court is limited and goes down the farther the state is from the location of the cutation.

 

3) While traveling, ensure all weapons are separate from their ammo. Also, make sure that they are stored, at minimum, inside storage containers and preferably locked also. Having the ammo locked in a container is also a better option if available

 

4) Remember that a search is not the right of an officer and there is no requirement that you give consent. Always say no and make him determine "probable cause". one thing to remember is that laws vary from state to state. Some states do not require you to have a permit, but do require you to notify any officer of the presence of firearms. Charting a course and then determining what laws he will need to be familiar with prior to setting off could save him time and headache.

 

Think of it like this: he gets stopped in a place that requires him to notify the officer he has weapons but he does not know it. The officer sees what he knows to be a case for a firearm in the vehicle. This would give him what is called "articulable reasonable suspicion" and he can now look at that specific object to verify or remove his concerns. When opened he confirms it is a gun and now he is arrestsd by the young officer. He gets a single charge of illegal possession. Now he has to do a inventory offhe vehicle and finds the rest and each carries its own separate charge. These things happen far too often.

Thanks for leveling with me. I appreciate your experience in the matter. It seems that his trip will start in the Lion's den and end up in Valhalla! I better have him over for dinner and setup a map home even if it isn't the most direct one.

 

Thanks for your time!

[jerry52 893]

A provision of the federal law known as the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act, or FOPA, protects those who are transporting firearms for lawful purposes from local restrictions which would otherwise prohibit passage.

For NY I have been told that if you are passing thru the state do it in one day with reservations to stop in another state.

Also Guns need to be locked with ammo in annother compartment yada yada yada what ever you get the idea.

[yakdung 2,926]

If it is north of the Mason Dixon line, I would not even consider it. Too many moronic Politicians and laws waiting for you to make an error.

[menace667 194]

"A provision of the federal law known as the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act, or FOPA, protects those who are transporting firearms for lawful purposes from local restrictions which would otherwise prohibit passage.

For NY I have been told that if you are passing thru the state do it in one day with reservations to stop in another state.

Also Guns need to be locked with ammo in annother compartment yada yada yada what ever you get the idea."

 

This only applies if the officer knows what FOPA is. A vast majority of law enforcemen officers, especially in rural areas, are under educated (I was a city cop and have a college education. I was in the vast minority) and many more are completely onlivious to federal laws and their application.

 

In most cases it requires you to be arrested and booked. Then you a situaion where you have to go through a bail hearing, obtain council, and pay to have charges levied against you dropped.

 

Then, even after your harges are dropped, you have a weapons charge on your criminal history through NCIC that every cop who ever pulls you over can obtain and will hold against you for the purposes of a search or put them on edge which will ultimately make it more uncomfortable for you. Things like being removed from your vehicle for "pat downs" for the purpose of officer safety during stops is an example of the hassle you will experience.

 

The best option is to avoid it at all costs. Just gettin your property back can go from difficult to impossible. There have been many cases where guns are destroyed or "lost" and never returned to the owner. If these hold sentimental value then a couple extra hours of driving to avoid known problem areas is worth it.

[vulcan16 971]

Send them UPS? (or via another preferred carrier?) He can legally send them to himself C/O another person, or just to his own address.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/34686-shipping-a-gun/?hl=%29

Too damn many boxes! It would get extremely expensive quick with shipping (timely), tracking, insurance and packaging. These are his deceased fathers so it would probably be hard to trust the goof balls at UPS, FEDEX or USPS. He shipped a scoped elk rifle out and there was damage with insurance. The scope got busted up and UPS would not insure it.

 

I think the only way he will do it is by car.

 

reading this at the moment... look at that! my membership paid off! ... i hope.... ?

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/articles/2010/guide-to-the-interstate-transportation.aspx

Cheaper to ship then to hire a lawyer.

[Conscript 99]

Why yes sir, I do have quite a few guitar cases in my back seat. I play quite a bit and enjoy them all.

[jerry52 893]

"A provision of the federal law known as the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act, or FOPA, protects those who are transporting firearms for lawful purposes from local restrictions which would otherwise prohibit passage.

For NY I have been told that if you are passing thru the state do it in one day with reservations to stop in another state.

Also Guns need to be locked with ammo in annother compartment yada yada yada what ever you get the idea."

 

This only applies if the officer knows what FOPA is. A vast majority of law enforcemen officers, especially in rural areas, are under educated (I was a city cop and have a college education. I was in the vast minority) and many more are completely onlivious to federal laws and their application.

 

In most cases it requires you to be arrested and booked. Then you a situaion where you have to go through a bail hearing, obtain council, and pay to have charges levied against you dropped.

 

Then, even after your harges are dropped, you have a weapons charge on your criminal history through NCIC that every cop who ever pulls you over can obtain and will hold against you for the purposes of a search or put them on edge which will ultimately make it more uncomfortable for you. Things like being removed from your vehicle for "pat downs" for the purpose of officer safety during stops is an example of the hassle you will experience.

 

The best option is to avoid it at all costs. Just gettin your property back can go from difficult to impossible. There have been many cases where guns are destroyed or "lost" and never returned to the owner. If these hold sentimental value then a couple extra hours of driving to avoid known problem areas is worth it.

Solution don't go there!

City cops under educated? I'm shocked!

Edited March 19, 2013 by jerry52

[Remek 771]

Meh, I think he would be fine because of the Federal law. I am pretty sure, though please check, you can even stop for food and gas, etc., without any problems. Of course, if I understand right, you will be running the gauntlet with arms prohibited by the state, and you cannot foretell the future, so it could happen, but really, if you are driving a family car, put some kids on board signs on it, and keep to the speed limits, you should be fine. I'd also look clean shaven and wearing decent clothes. Look the part of a family man just doing his jobs, and the LEOs should lay off.

 

Don't press fate either, just take the shortest line out of the state to a safe state, but really, you are in the right, and any charges can be expunged.

 

Sending by courier is an option, but it is just up to what your friend wants to deal with.

^^^ to pound the point home, I'd put a kids safety seat in the back too. Nothing says family man like that!

[VR762Shooter 838]

Tell him to weld up a giant locked container and attach it to the back of a pickup, pile them all in at once and fly outta there like a bat outta hell. If he is transporting them now, and he doesn't want to end up like one of the recent news worthy NY arrests for "Hi-cap" mags, he should just do it all at once to avoid the risk of multiple trips. Everything he owns may be legal, doesn't mean Bloomy and Cock-mo won't be champing at the bit for more newsworthy arrests

[YOT 3,743]

There is a whole lot of advise here from out-of-Staters. Please take the time to Contact the NYS Police and ask them what to do. I'm sure their advice and direction will be of use. At this point you could explain the exact situation. Perhaps they can even issue some type of paperwork so you'll be covered. Be prepared with a copy of the death certificate, obituary, and will. I needed those when I inherited an handgun from a family member in Arkansas and had to show it's entry into NY without it going through an FFL, so it could be legally registered.

 

http://troopers.ny.gov/Contact_Us/

 

I would add that you should contact the office near were your relative lived. If they can't help you, they can direct you to person who can.

 

http://troopers.ny.gov/Contact_Us/Troop_Information/

Edited March 19, 2013 by Yeoldetool

[menace667 194]

I emphasize this point as strongly as possible, and can not emphasize it enough. Unless the cop on the phone is guaranteed to be the one to stop you his advice is not the law. The law is up to the understanding and interpretation of the arrestin officer. Five different cops could have five different understandings of a single law, and as such the possible results are infinite. The only sure way to guarantee safety against prosecution is to avoid putting yourself in the situation in the first place. Many officers knowledge base comes from their training officers understanding and ethics. If their officer was a poor role model many times the officer believes this as the way they should behave. Free thinkers do not do well in the LEO communits in large because theyre a threat to the established way of being.

 

As far as expunging an arrest it is not as sime a task as you make it out to be. And also know that because it is expunged does not means it goes away. It is just hidden a little better. I myself, an ex cop, have a horror story myself about a charge i had that was never expunged which almost caused me to lose my chance to become a cop, when I had never done anything wrong.

 

This is not a question of a single state to avoid. The drive between NY and MT will cause him to traverse many gun unfriendly areas all with different laws. Lastly i say this, many states adopt federal laws and add to them. An example may be "transport of firearms through the city is allowed as presecribed by federal, except upon contact with a law enforcement officethe person must notify immediately the possession of any firearms". In this way the state is complying with federal law, but add requirements to it and you would be commiting a crime if you do not comply with them and the state did not violate federal law practices.

 

This is why i recommend avoidance rather than temp fate. This advice is from someone who has been in the field and wants to see nothing bad to happen to gun owners. Most who talk tough would not back it up and none of them will come to your defense if something bad were to happen. The insight i am trying to provide is from first hand experiences, not opinions or stories from someone else. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[IndyArms 10,186]

As a CURRENT resident of the state of NY... let me say this...

 

Even under the SAFE act, firearms are legally able to be transferred between IMMEDIATE FAMILY with no need for the FFL transfer/4473.

He is IMMEDIATE FAMILY. the firearms are already IN NY... its not like they are passing THROUGH NY...

Regardless of HOW he obtains them... whether through a will, or his mother giving them to him, etc... the firearms are legally his and he can posess them in NY, and leave with them.

 

The only STICKY points then, are the NUMBERS of firearms... there are provisions in the SAFE ACT, and even the standard PENAL CODE, written and in place LONG BEFORE the fucked up SAFE act was passed, that state posession of 3 or more, 5 or more, and 10 or more firearms becomes a crime. The severity depending on the number in posession.

 

With that said...

Unless he obtains something in writing allowing posession for reason of transport out of state, I SECOND the notion that they be SHIPPED via common carrier... USPS, UPS, with tracking and insurance. to himself in the state of his legal residence, regardless of COST, or hassle, as the alternatives could be far worse.

 

Just MY 2 cents, of course...

 

 

[storm6490 2,768]

Just an update. My buddy shipped all the good stuff from FFL to FFL and drove home with a bunch of parts to make shipping less expensive. All the weapons showed up safe and sound. Never got pulled over when driving back. He will never go back to NY. He sold everything in NY and made the move to Montana for the long haul.

 

I wonder how many hard workers NY lost to this bullshit?

[gunman1 1,753]

Good for him, glad to hear it.

 

I tell ya.....if I weren't in such bad physical shape that is exactly where I would be looking to go back to, I really miss it. I'm not sure what we'll do, we're both to young to retire, but too far along now to make those sort of changes, I envy those who can 

[Mopar14889 1]

Just as long as their unloaded and locked cases in the trunk your fine. That's a federal law. You may have heard about the guy who's serving a 5 year sentence in jersey for transporting guns to and from a new state but he had them in his passenger compartment in unlocked cases.

As a CURRENT resident of the state of NY... let me say this...

 

Even under the SAFE act, firearms are legally able to be transferred between IMMEDIATE FAMILY with no need for the FFL transfer/4473.

He is IMMEDIATE FAMILY.  the firearms are already IN NY...  its not like they are passing THROUGH NY...

Regardless of HOW he obtains them... whether through a will, or his mother giving them to him, etc... the firearms are legally his and he can posess them in NY, and leave with them.

 

The only STICKY points then, are the NUMBERS of firearms... there are provisions in the SAFE ACT, and even the standard PENAL CODE, written and in place LONG BEFORE the fucked up SAFE act was passed, that state posession of 3 or more, 5 or more, and 10 or more firearms becomes a crime. The severity depending on the number in posession. 

 

With that said...

Unless he obtains something in writing allowing posession for reason of transport out of state, I SECOND the notion that they be SHIPPED via common carrier... USPS, UPS, with tracking and insurance. to himself in the state of his legal residence, regardless of COST, or hassle, as the alternatives could be far worse. 

 

Just MY 2 cents, of course...

 

 

Your reading that wrong, many lawyers on a local forum I belong to have said that the term "firearm" as it's written in the law applys only to unregistered handguns, sbr's, sbs's, machine guns, and now unregistered assault weapons.

[Remek 771]

Glad it all went well, Stryker.

 

I hope land remains available out there, I may have to run there in a few years!

[YOT 3,743]

Just as long as their unloaded and locked cases in the trunk your fine. That's a federal law. You may have heard about the guy who's serving a 5 year sentence in jersey for transporting guns to and from a new state but he had them in his passenger compartment in unlocked cases.

As a CURRENT resident of the state of NY... let me say this...

 

Even under the SAFE act, firearms are legally able to be transferred between IMMEDIATE FAMILY with no need for the FFL transfer/4473.

He is IMMEDIATE FAMILY.  the firearms are already IN NY...  its not like they are passing THROUGH NY...

Regardless of HOW he obtains them... whether through a will, or his mother giving them to him, etc... the firearms are legally his and he can posess them in NY, and leave with them.

 

The only STICKY points then, are the NUMBERS of firearms... there are provisions in the SAFE ACT, and even the standard PENAL CODE, written and in place LONG BEFORE the fucked up SAFE act was passed, that state posession of 3 or more, 5 or more, and 10 or more firearms becomes a crime. The severity depending on the number in posession. 

 

With that said...

Unless he obtains something in writing allowing posession for reason of transport out of state, I SECOND the notion that they be SHIPPED via common carrier... USPS, UPS, with tracking and insurance. to himself in the state of his legal residence, regardless of COST, or hassle, as the alternatives could be far worse. 

 

Just MY 2 cents, of course...

 

 

Your reading that wrong, many lawyers on a local forum I belong to have said that the term "firearm" as it's written in the law applys only to unregistered handguns, sbr's, sbs's, machine guns, and now unregistered assault weapons.

 

 

The reason for that is that there are definitions for "Firearms", "Rifles", and "Shotguns". See numbers 3., 11., 12., and for the hell of it number 14. of the NYS Penal Law Article 265.00 Definitions....

 

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$PEN265.00$$@TXPEN0265.00+&LIST=SEA2+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=33450939+&TARGET=VIEW

 

Your faith in on-line lawyers, without being able to decipher the laws yourself, is foolish at best.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Yeoldetool

[Sim_Player 1,939]

This thread should have been titled, "Escape from New York".

Edited January 4, 2014 by Sim_Player

[storm6490 2,768]

Glad it all went well, Stryker.

 

I hope land remains available out there, I may have to run there in a few years!

Lots of open land. Please feel free to visit or land anytime.

 

Just as long as their unloaded and locked cases in the trunk your fine. That's a federal law. You may have heard about the guy who's serving a 5 year sentence in jersey for transporting guns to and from a new state but he had them in his passenger compartment in unlocked cases.

As a CURRENT resident of the state of NY... let me say this...

 

Even under the SAFE act, firearms are legally able to be transferred between IMMEDIATE FAMILY with no need for the FFL transfer/4473.

He is IMMEDIATE FAMILY.  the firearms are already IN NY...  its not like they are passing THROUGH NY...

Regardless of HOW he obtains them... whether through a will, or his mother giving them to him, etc... the firearms are legally his and he can posess them in NY, and leave with them.

 

The only STICKY points then, are the NUMBERS of firearms... there are provisions in the SAFE ACT, and even the standard PENAL CODE, written and in place LONG BEFORE the fucked up SAFE act was passed, that state posession of 3 or more, 5 or more, and 10 or more firearms becomes a crime. The severity depending on the number in posession. 

 

With that said...

Unless he obtains something in writing allowing posession for reason of transport out of state, I SECOND the notion that they be SHIPPED via common carrier... USPS, UPS, with tracking and insurance. to himself in the state of his legal residence, regardless of COST, or hassle, as the alternatives could be far worse. 

 

Just MY 2 cents, of course...

 

 

Your reading that wrong, many lawyers on a local forum I belong to have said that the term "firearm" as it's written in the law applys only to unregistered handguns, sbr's, sbs's, machine guns, and now unregistered assault weapons.

 

 

The reason for that is that there are definitions for "Firearms", "Rifles", and "Shotguns". See numbers 3., 11., 12., and for the hell of it number 14. of the NYS Penal Law Article 265.00 Definitions....

 

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$PEN265.00$$@TXPEN0265.00+&LIST=SEA2+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=33450939+&TARGET=VIEW

 

Your faith in on-line lawyers, without being able to decipher the laws yourself, is foolish at best.

 

There was a lot of fun shit in there from his dad's post Vietnam, Legion, Hunting, Trapping, Butchering, Taxidermy days.

 

It was best to get the guns out by his uncles FFL to a trusted FFL in Montana. The magazines that became taboo over the years were shipped UPS along with all the other baby killing accessories. Only a few guns went back in the truck for personal reasons. Either way, it was a hell of a show.

 

No cops when you wash your truck, check your lights and do the speed limit. Not many out early in the week end.

 

Fuck NY state. G-d bless the poor people over there.

[uzitiger 193]

I don't know enough abuot New York State's Nazi anti gun laws but the only thing I would say is to stay the fuck out of New York Shitty and Boston.  They ignore the federal laws which protect gun owners and arrest them.  The poor gun owners will be out of thousands of dollars in legal fees and may end up in prison for posession of a firearm which means they won't be able to own guns for the rest of their lives. 

 

It's ironic that the Americn Revolution started in the Boston area and now they and New York Shitty have the worst Nazi style laws banning firearms.