Why Colt is Going Bankrupt While Other Gun Makers Surge

[XD45 7,124]

And also why I have never bought a Colt and never will.

 

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/michaelschaus/2014/07/19/cronycapitalism-is-a-great-way-to-kill-a-gun-company-n1863635

[horatio 515]

Those damn unions.... They're going to kill America. It's been my experience that most who hate unions are stupid or too drunk to be able to get in. I'm a member of a private , not public, union. And very proud of it. Those that bash unions ( not darth, I understand that he only posted a link to an article) I've found are as well educated on unions as liberals are on guns.

 

I know I'm a minority on this. Flame me if you want. I'm prepared to defend my position

[saltydecimator 482]

fatty, got any good links to support your views? not breakin your balls, i am a memver of a union

 

i am like 12 hrs away from buying a colt match target 76239 for like 750... psyched. well, until i read darths link

[XD45 7,124]

Really fatty, support your position instead of just calling those that disagree with you names. That's what liberal assholes do.

 

Did you read the article, or just stop when you saw the word union?

 

Unions were only a small part of the problem with Colt. The addiction to government contracts and outright refusal to sell to citizens is what damn near killed them. They still might not recover. And fuck em.

 

Unions were needed at one time. Now they're doing more harm than good.

 

And yeah I've had direct experience with unions.

[G8R8U2 2]

Well, as the article points out, unions are only 1 part of Colt's uncanny ability to fail financially... they've been failing repeatedly since Colt bankrupted the company in the '30's, 30+ years before organized labor unions even existed.

 

Besides, Remington uses union labor, and they're far from bankrupt.

[gunman1 1,753]

Here is a shining example of what the modern union has done;

 

Campbell Works site (Campbell, Ohio)

 

The Youngstown Iron Sheet and Tube Company was one of the largest steel manufacturers in the world. The home plant of YS&T was known as the Campbell Works located in Campbell and Struthers, Ohio. This plant contained four blast furnaces, twelve open hearth furnaces, blooming mills, two Bessemer converters, slabbing mill, butt weld tube mill, 79" hot strip mill, seamless tube mills and 9" and 12" bar mills at the Struthers Works.

www.youngstownsteel.com/ has great historical information, photos and the video "Steel City" produced in 1944.

Campbell Works, which opened in 1900, abruptly closed in 1977 with the loss of 5000 jobs.

Wives/children found their husbands/fathers hanging by their necks in many homes on that very dark Monday.

 

 

The Youngstown Iron Sheet and Tube Company, based in Youngstown, Ohio, was one of the largest steel manufacturers in the world. Officially, the company was created on November 23, 1900, when Articles of Incorporation of the Youngstown Iron Sheet and Tube Company were filed with the Ohio Secretary of State at Columbus. It acquired the Mark Manufacturing Company in 1923.^[1] Youngstown Sheet and Tube remained in business until 1977.

 

In 1888, Youngstown industrialists George D. Wick and James A. Campbell organized the Mahoning Valley Iron Company, with Wick as president. Five years later, the two men resigned from the firm when it was taken over by the Republic Iron and Steel Company, and their next project would come in response to major changes that occurred in the community's industrial sector. Youngstown's industrial leaders began to convert from iron to steel manufacturing at the turn of the century, a period that also saw a wave of consolidations that placed much of the community's industry in the hands of national corporations. To the rising concern of many area industrialists, U.S. Steel, shortly after its establishment in 1901, absorbed Youngstown's premier steel producer, the National Steel Corporation.

During the previous year, however, Wick and Campbell combined resources with other local investors who wanted to maintain significant levels of local ownership within the city's manufacturing sector. The group established the Youngstown Iron Sheet and Tube Company with $600,000 in capital and eventually turned it into one of the nation's most important steel producers. Wick, who emerged as the steel company's first president in 1900, appointed Campbell as secretary.^[2] The word 'Iron' was dropped from the company's name in 1905.

In 1923, Youngstown Sheet and Tube purchased the assets of The Brier Hill Steel Company (also located in Youngstown), as well as the facilities of The Steel and Tube Company of America in East Chicago and Indiana Harbor, IN, making it the fifth largest steel maker in the United States and the largest employer in the Mahoning Valley.

The home plant of YS&T was known as the Campbell Works located in Campbell and Struthers, Ohio. This plant contained four blast furnaces, twelve open hearth furnaces, blooming mills, two Bessemer converters, slabbing mill, butt weld tube mill, 79" hot strip mill, seamless tube mills and 9" and 12" bar mills at the Struthers Works. The Brier Hill Works consisted of two blast furnaces named Grace and Jeannette, twelve open hearth furnaces, 40" blooming mill, 35" intermediate blooming mill, 24" round mill, 84" and 132" plate mills and an electric weld tube mill. During much of The Depression the Brier Hill works was shut down, but reopened in 1937. Much of the reopened plant's production centered around the production of tube rounds for the Campbell seamless tube mills. Due to the imbalance of ironmaking and steelmaking facilities at the two plants, rail shipments of molten iron "hot metal" were made from Campbell to Brier Hill from 1937 until 1979.

In 1916, Sheet and Tube workers at the East Youngstown plant rioted during a strike over working conditions, which resulted in most of the town's business district being burned to the ground. The strike was quelled by the arrival of National Guard troops. After the riots, East Youngstown was renamed Campbell in honor of the company's President. In 1937, Youngstown Sheet and Tube played a prominent role in the Little Steel Strike, along with Republic Steel, Inland Steel, Bethlehem Steel, and Weirton Steel. The so-called "Little Steel" group, led by Republic's Tom Girdler, operated independently of United States Steel, which had previously signed a labor agreement with the Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) and its subordinate Steel Workers Organizing Committee (SWOC). Violence during this strike resulted in the deaths of workers in Chicago and Youngstown.

In 1952, during the Korean War, President Harry S. Truman attempted to seize United States steel mills in order to avert a strike. This led to the U.S. Supreme Court decision of Youngstown Sheet & Tube Company v. Sawyer, which limited presidential authority.

The company abruptly closed its Campbell Works and furloughed 5,000 workers on September 19, 1977,^[3] a day remembered locally as "Black Monday." The Brier Hill Works and the company's plants in Indiana were sold to Jones and Laughlin Steel, later acquired by Ling-Temco-Vought (LTV), a conglomerate. The Brier Hill Works closed in 1979 as part of a continued wave of steel mill closings that devastated the Youngstown economy. The Brier Hill Works eventually reopened and are now operated as V & M Star Ohio, a recycling mini-mill owned by the Vallourec Group, a French conglomerate.

Notable employees[edit]

• Joseph G. Butler, Jr., American industrialist and philanthropist, founder of the Butler Institute of American Art.
• James A. Campbell, first Secretary of the Board, 1900, appointed Company president 1904, President of American Iron and Steel Institute during World War I.
• Pete Mauthe, WWII-era president, elected to College Football Hall of Fame
• Ernest L. Webster, Los Angeles, California, City Council member, 1927–31

[G O B 3,516]

Those damn unions.... They're going to kill America. It's been my experience that most who hate unions are stupid or too drunk to be able to get in. I'm a member of a private , not public, union. And very proud of it. Those that bash unions ( not darth, I understand that he only posted a link to an article) I've found are as well educated on unions as liberals are on guns.

 

I know I'm a minority on this. Flame me if you want. I'm prepared to defend my position

 

 I am retired from the same Union and enjoying the benefits we worked so hard for. We own our OWN pension - money from wages was put into a fund that neither the Union nor the company owns. We provide the training for our members, and proudly provide safe vertical transportation to the equivalent of the worlds population every day.

[james lambert 3,059]

Unions are great!!!!

 

Just look at Detroit, what a boon town

 

Twinkies?

 

Steel mills

 winchester

Its a VERY long list

 

Not to mention SEIU  what a nice bunch of folks ,, nice to know if you need to rig an election.

[horatio 515]

To every one asked- no. I have no articles to support my position. In my humble opinion I have something better than that. Personal experience. I'm a union elevator mechanic. Most larger union companies from where I'm from have a policy of refusing to do open order work on non union maintained equipment. I never understood why. Working for a smaller union company I now understand why.

 

The crap I've seen installed by nonunion companies takes my breath away. And their work ethic is deplorable. One of my favorite stories is one where a non union crew was reroping a 13 story elevator. They made some poor rosebuds in their shackles and when they went to unhang the car... The counterweight (approx 3000 pounds) dropped 6 stories. The crews lives were only saved by safeties installed on the elevator. Or I could mention the non union company who installed a switch in a controller to bypass all hallway door and elevator door switches. because they would occasionally hang up. Essentially this would and could allow the elevator to leave the floor with the doors open. And you trying to get in. It's happened. And people have died.

 

I'm not trying to defend all unions. I never will. My point is that not all unions are bad. My company has a 100% turnover rate. Guys in my trade that can't do the work, don't work. Being in a union allows me to bargain as whole and have real power in getting a raise. If I leave, it doesn't mean anything, 2000 guys leave., it means something. If my company were to ask me to do something unsafe, or unethical, I take pride in the fact I can tell them to go pound sand and I can have a job at the same rate and benefits as I had yesterday.

 

My first and greatest concern is your safety, not the companies dollar. I come home most days broken and bleeding. Why? Because I take pride in my work. I want to see every person who rides that car get on and off safely. Next time you push that button I hope it's a union man who maintains that car. Because its your head that can get ripped off.

[horatio 515]

Oh and to clarify on the drunken/ stupid thing. No articles, again just personal personal experience. Most non unions have a bunch of idiots doung the heavy work and one smart guy doing all the troubleshooting.

 

The last smart guy I met? He stole tens of thousands of dollars of parts from the union company he worked for before getting fired for it. Yeah. That's what America needs.

[YOT 3,743]

I read it... twice. The author tried to imply that Unions have something to do with Crony-Capitalism. They don't. 

[james lambert 3,059]

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Yeah Im not drunk and my IQ is 168 so im not stupid

And I dont belong to a union

Yea and when you piss off the side of a bridge, you can tell us the temp and depth of the water below too, right?

[horatio 515]

Yeah Jim your right. Unions are horrible. And all cops are just lazy donut eating idiots who can't get a real job.

 

Did I strike a nerve? Hope so because that's how I feel.

 

To be honest I didn't want to post this. I respect local law enforcement and respect them for the service they do. But again. To lump an entire group of people together serves no purpose.

 

Darth. I am sorry. I have totally derailed this thread.

[james lambert 3,059]

 

Yeah Im not drunk and my IQ is 168 so im not stupid

And I dont belong to a union

Yea and when you piss off the side of a bridge, you can tell us the temp and depth of the water below too, right?

 

Only in my dreams

[james lambert 3,059]

Yeah Jim your right. Unions are horrible. And all cops are just lazy donut eating idiots who can't get a real job.

 

Did I strike a nerve? Hope so because that's how I feel.

 

To be honest I didn't want to post this. I respect local law enforcement and respect them for the service they do. But again. To lump an entire group of people together serves no purpose.

 

Darth. I am sorry. I have totally derailed this thread.

I never said all unions are bad

 

But unions have done some real bad stuff...They got Obama elected for one!

 

They have subverted elections

They have killed people crossing lines and beaten others

Put many companies out of business

They prevent non union people from getting jobs.

I know a company in texas that had union guys from chicago come down And threaten them, trying to unionize the shop.

Those guys were THUGS!!!

 

Not all unions are like that

 

There are some that do well for their members, but in general not so good for business or the country.

I dont know a thing about the union you belong to, and cant lump it in with the ones I do know things about.

 

and just because you do belong to a union,, I wouldnt call you a drunk or an idiot

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Corporations never ever did any of the above either.... ever....I swear.

 

Saying unions don't have a place in the work force is the same as saying the 2nd A is out dated.

[YOT 3,743]

"While most American companies scrambled for ways to avoid the Union-led decline into mediocrity,...."

 

 

Actually it was corporate greed that lead "most American companies" decline, not the Unions that wanted fair labor packages for the worker. 

 

 

Hey! Lets give Government subsidized bonuses to the CEOs!!!! 

 

*EAD, Corporate CEOs!

 

 

* To any that run their own "small business" this does not apply. "Colt" is NOT a small business.

[haugpatr 972]

Those damn unions.... They're going to kill America. It's been my experience that most who hate unions are stupid or too drunk to be able to get in. I'm a member of a private , not public, union. And very proud of it. Those that bash unions ( not darth, I understand that he only posted a link to an article) I've found are as well educated on unions as liberals are on guns.

 

I know I'm a minority on this. Flame me if you want. I'm prepared to defend my position

 

I recently became a member of a union and everything I thought about them was true, most of the union members have a very entitled mentality and the union protects the laziest and most incompetent people I have ever worked with.

 

If you are worth anything as an employee, you do not need a union, unless you are overpaid for the work you are doing, which is the case with most union workers.

[XD45 7,124]

So can a mod just change the name of the thread to The Union Argument Thread. Just so people don't come here thinking this discussion is about Colt...

[james lambert 3,059]

I read it... twice. The author tried to imply that Unions have something to do with Crony-Capitalism. They don't. 

Actually they do, and all you have to do is read the headlines over the last 6 years to see it.

 

And that was the main issue with colt, it relied on the govt gravy train and failed in the free market

[Sim_Player 1,939]

If it failed in the free market, it deserved to die.

 

I have a bad opinion of unions, when they don't serve a reasonable purpose.

 

Protecting their people from dangerous work conditions is one but, justifying their existence by making the employer our to be a "bad guy" is where I draw the line. No better than Obama.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Sim_Player

[horatio 515]

Hog. Thanks for making my point. Non union makes about 60% of what I make. And don't even understand what they are working on. And endangers your life. (From what I have seen)

 

 

It's nice to say if you're worth anything you don't need a union. That's said by guys who like to make less money. Because ya know, companies love to give away money. Again, I'm not defending all unions. But it chaps my ass to come home exhausted every night undoing hack work only to find some doornob saying "oh those unions, they're destroying America"

 

It's like reading someone saying we should ban those shoulder things that go up. Because they make guns dangerous. And pistol grips! Pure evil! Does that make any sense?

[james lambert 3,059]

It is just silly to expect people who are part of a problem to admit there is a problem..

[haugpatr 972]

Hog. Thanks for making my point. Non union makes about 60% of what I make. And don't even understand what they are working on. And endangers your life. (From what I have seen)

 

 

It's nice to say if you're worth anything you don't need a union. That's said by guys who like to make less money. Because ya know, companies love to give away money. Again, I'm not defending all unions. But it chaps my ass to come home exhausted every night undoing hack work only to find some doornob saying "oh those unions, they're destroying America"

 

It's like reading someone saying we should ban those shoulder things that go up. Because they make guns dangerous. And pistol grips! Pure evil! Does that make any sense?

 

Unions are a leach and they suck companies dry and run them out of business.  The market will pay you what you deserve, but those that lack skills and are unwilling to face the true market wage they deserve, love unions.  You are basically saying you are getting paid more than you are worth, all this is at the expense of others.  Unions are selfish and greedy, they only think short term for their current members, all those that follow after them get less and less as the older members take more and more.

 

Non-union members get paid what they are worth, union members are often times overpaid.  A free market determines a fair wage, not a union.  But greedy people like you don't care.  You are just taking as much as you can.  Who cares if the union supports Dems?  Who cares if the union destroys the company?  Who cares if they use thuggish tactics?  Not you, because you are a greedy entitled union member.  You should be so proud Fatty Alcohol!

 

ETA - People like you are what is wrong with this country!

Edited July 20, 2014 by HOG76

[horatio 515]

I am proud. I made a good wage. Got a BONUS (not required by the union). My small company made a 2 Million dollar profit and 3 bosses got new cars. Wait I'm wrong. I'm damn proud.

 

My buddies company doesn't give bonuses but takes their guys to Vegas once a year. Flight and hotel. Also does a 5 day cruise. Cruise- no airfare. Yeah. We have destroyed our company. I work a very highly skilled job. The non union guys I've met? Can't tie their shoes without at least two beers in them.

 

So please hog, elaborate. How have I destroyed my company? The majority of non unions I've seen couldn't find their ass with both hands a map. They are paid what they're worth.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Colt has been bought and paid for, just like our Congress. They remind me of diapers. They all start off clean, but sooner or later they both need to be changed for the same reason.

[horatio 515]

Thank you for bringing relevancy back to the thread captain. Always kinda wanted a colt but probably won't get one. Still, those pythons are nice. Guess ill get a smith and Wesson instead.

[XD45 7,124]

Fine it it's an argument about unions, then so be it.

 

Unions encourage shoddy work and laziness because it's goddamn near impossible to fire a union employee.

 

Unions steal money from both company and employee and use it mostly to support liberal politics.

 

Unions force up labor costs making US made products more expensive. And since unions don't encourage quality work that expensive product is often crap.

 

And public unions are nothing but the mob by a different name.

 

The unions have simply replaced the problem they were created to fix with other problems. Unions have become an extortion racket.

 

And let's talk about Card Check. Make every union vote public so that all those that vote against the union can be properly punished. Nothing says freedom like voting with a hammer over your head.

 

But obviously I'm drunk and stupid because I have an opinion different than yours. Sounds like a page right from the liberal playbook. Demonize those that don't toe the line.

 

Oops, sorry, sounds like a page from the union playbook.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Darth Saigus

[thebuns1 4,323]

Its not that colt sucks. Its just that they tend to lean to the side of the ones we dont like. But thats fine. They are the ones paying the bills. i get it. I just wish that more companies would stand behind the people and not the paycheck from the feds...After all, we are the ones that put them there to begin with. Funny how some companies turn their back on those that make them who they are.