Why Colt is Going Bankrupt While Other Gun Makers Surge

[horatio 515]

Darth again, I apologize for hijacking the thread. I tried to set it back in the last post. But please clarify for me, near everything you said is the exact opposite from what I have been posting. This has been my experience for the last 14 years. How should i react when someone insinuates ( in the article ) that unions are partially at fault? Again, i am not defending all unions. I cant. Perhaps im just crabby from losing our russian stuff. In the interest of trying to reclaim the thread, feel free to pm me.

[DavidQ 170]

I am proud. I made a good wage. Got a BONUS (not required by the union). My small company made a 2 Million dollar profit and 3 bosses got new cars. Wait I'm wrong. I'm damn proud.

 

My buddies company doesn't give bonuses but takes their guys to Vegas once a year. Flight and hotel. Also does a 5 day cruise. Cruise- no airfare. Yeah. We have destroyed our company. I work a very highly skilled job. The non union guys I've met? Can't tie their shoes without at least two beers in them.

 

So please hog, elaborate. How have I destroyed my company? The majority of non unions I've seen couldn't find their ass with both hands a map. They are paid what they're worth.

I think you need to get out more.

[haugpatr 972]

Fine it it's an argument about unions, then so be it.

 

Unions encourage shoddy work and laziness because it's goddamn near impossible to fire a union employee.

 

Unions steal money from both company and employee and use it mostly to support liberal politics.

 

Unions force up labor costs making US made products more expensive. And since unions don't encourage quality work that expensive product is often crap.

 

And public unions are nothing but the mob by a different name.

 

The unions have simply replaced the problem they were created to fix with other problems. Unions have become an extortion racket.

 

And let's talk about Card Check. Make every union vote public so that all those that vote against the union can be properly punished. Nothing says freedom like voting with a hammer over your head.

 

But obviously I'm drunk and stupid because I have an opinion different than yours. Sounds like a page right from the liberal playbook. Demonize those that don't toe the line.

 

Oops, sorry, sounds like a page from the union playbook.

 

Very well said.

 

Obamacare, Illegals invading, gun control, etc.......who cares as long as I am getting overpaid because of my union.  I will just sell out everything else.  I am such a proud union member, just like Fatty Alcohol!  (sarcasm)

[thebuns1 4,323]

 

I am proud. I made a good wage. Got a BONUS (not required by the union). My small company made a 2 Million dollar profit and 3 bosses got new cars. Wait I'm wrong. I'm damn proud.

 

My buddies company doesn't give bonuses but takes their guys to Vegas once a year. Flight and hotel. Also does a 5 day cruise. Cruise- no airfare. Yeah. We have destroyed our company. I work a very highly skilled job. The non union guys I've met? Can't tie their shoes without at least two beers in them.

 

So please hog, elaborate. How have I destroyed my company? The majority of non unions I've seen couldn't find their ass with both hands a map. They are paid what they're worth.

I think you need to get out more.

 

Elaborate.

[DavidQ 170]

If all fatty is saying is that every non union worker he has seen is just a drunken yokel who can't even tie his shoes, then he needs to explore a little more outside of his unionverse. I guess I'm just just a drunk who drives a commercial truck daily and don't make 100k a year for pushing a button.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Im just a door installer, but Im still a fuckin American, who served and still loves my country. I will not bow down to in the face of cunts. Fuck Unions.

[DavidQ 170]

Thank you for your service. Because of people like you, we have great freedoms in this country. Most of which people take for granted.

[kevinfreel 215]

I guess every union is different too though. I just joined one, and I don't think I'll stay in it forever, but I'll be taught what I need to know in my trade. I see some here have said it near impossible to fire a union employee and that might be true, but the company I work for will hand you your walking papers in a second. Our HR manager keeps records of all employees, and if the hall tries to send a shitty worker according to her records she says no and asks for a different one. Sometimes unions are good, sometimes they suck and sometimes they are down right atrocious. I guess it depends on the region the trade and the particular union. I'm just gonna put 3 1/2 more years in so I can make journeyman, and decide from there.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Thank you for your service. Because of people like you, we have great freedoms in this country. Most of which people take for granted.

I am one of many. Far too many, so please, dont thank me. I appreciate your gratitude, but there is no need for such, especially in our time of need. Thank you though. I wish more people shared your affection for our future. Be safe in all you do my friend.

[Sim_Player 1,939]

Every mouth leans toward the "tit".

Edited July 20, 2014 by Sim_Player

[YOT 3,743]

What ever made anyone think that "Colt" is in business to cater to the civilian market? The CEOs make the business decisions, not the line workers, not the buyers. That's the way Colt is failing. Big deal. They would have failed LOOOOONG ago had they depended solely on the civilian market.

[DogMan 2,343]

I've been non-union and I've been union. I've seen both from the inside. I'll take union any day. Above all else  I'm working for ME. And my union is good for ME. My company doesn't care about me. They all say they do, but they don't. I'm getting paid what I'm worth because of my union and I make no apologies.

[Big John! 2,062]

Would you guys love your unions if your pay was down to the free market scale?

 

Fatty, you said... "If I leave, it doesn't mean anything, 2000 guys leave., it means something".  Sounds like extortion to me...

 

Fatty, you said...  "not the companies dollar".  Meaning that you do not care about the company you work for or their success which feeds your family.  I take real pride in my work.  If at any time I feel underpaid for what I do, I am free to leave at any time as my employer owes me nothing aside from the wage we agreed on for my services rendered.  I do my best to make sure that my company is successful so that I have a real argument for further wage increases based on my work.  I do not need 2k others to negotiate this with me.  

 

You speak of union pride.  Where is the pride in being overpaid simply because you are part of a gang and not your personal merit?

 

Fatty, you said... "I am proud. I made a good wage. Got a BONUS (not required by the union). My small company made a 2 Million dollar profit and 3 bosses got new cars. Wait I'm wrong. I'm damn proud".  

Imagine the profit the company would have made had you and your 2 thousand gang members had not extorted the extra 40% pay increase that the guys that were too drunk and stupid to join a gang are making.

 

Fatty, You sir have not done the unions any service in this thread.  Your thoughts confirmed what I have always thought about them.

 

Saigus, This thread may not have gone where you intended.  But IMO, it has served as much, if not better purpose by confirming the leftest, entitlement mentality of unions and those in them for those who may not have known.

 

Fuck Colt.  They got what they deserved.  I'll vote with my money on this one and take it elsewhere.  I don't want to contribute to the crony capitalism gang. 

[kevinfreel 215]

Would you guys love your unions if your pay was down to the free market scale?

 

Fatty, you said... "If I leave, it doesn't mean anything, 2000 guys leave., it means something". Sounds like extortion to me...

 

Fatty, you said... "not the companies dollar". Meaning that you do not care about the company you work for or their success which feeds your family. I take real pride in my work. If at any time I feel underpaid for what I do, I am free to leave at any time as my employer owes me nothing aside from the wage we agreed on for my services rendered. I do my best to make sure that my company is successful so that I have a real argument for further wage increases based on my work. I do not need 2k others to negotiate this with me.

 

You speak of union pride. Where is the pride in being overpaid simply because you are part of a gang and not your personal merit?

 

Fatty, you said... "I am proud. I made a good wage. Got a BONUS (not required by the union). My small company made a 2 Million dollar profit and 3 bosses got new cars. Wait I'm wrong. I'm damn proud".

Imagine the profit the company would have made had you and your 2 thousand gang members had not extorted the extra 40% pay increase that the guys that were too drunk and stupid to join a gang are making.

 

Fatty, You sir have not done the unions any service in this thread. Your thoughts confirmed what I have always thought about them.

 

Saigus, This thread may not have gone where you intended. But IMO, it has served as much, if not better purpose by confirming the leftest, entitlement mentality of unions and those in them for those who may not have known.

 

Fuck Colt. They got what they deserved. I'll vote with my money on this one and take it elsewhere. I don't want to contribute to the crony capitalism gang.

I didn't think I came off leftist or entitled, I wont take this personal, but I think its an unfair blanket statement.

[james lambert 3,059]

 

Would you guys love your unions if your pay was down to the free market scale?

 

Fatty, you said... "If I leave, it doesn't mean anything, 2000 guys leave., it means something". Sounds like extortion to me...

 

Fatty, you said... "not the companies dollar". Meaning that you do not care about the company you work for or their success which feeds your family. I take real pride in my work. If at any time I feel underpaid for what I do, I am free to leave at any time as my employer owes me nothing aside from the wage we agreed on for my services rendered. I do my best to make sure that my company is successful so that I have a real argument for further wage increases based on my work. I do not need 2k others to negotiate this with me.

 

You speak of union pride. Where is the pride in being overpaid simply because you are part of a gang and not your personal merit?

 

Fatty, you said... "I am proud. I made a good wage. Got a BONUS (not required by the union). My small company made a 2 Million dollar profit and 3 bosses got new cars. Wait I'm wrong. I'm damn proud".

Imagine the profit the company would have made had you and your 2 thousand gang members had not extorted the extra 40% pay increase that the guys that were too drunk and stupid to join a gang are making.

 

Fatty, You sir have not done the unions any service in this thread. Your thoughts confirmed what I have always thought about them.

 

Saigus, This thread may not have gone where you intended. But IMO, it has served as much, if not better purpose by confirming the leftest, entitlement mentality of unions and those in them for those who may not have known.

 

Fuck Colt. They got what they deserved. I'll vote with my money on this one and take it elsewhere. I don't want to contribute to the crony capitalism gang.

I didn't think I came off leftist or entitled, I wont take this personal, but I think its an unfair blanket statement.

 

And there is the rub, many many good people are in unions, most have no choice if they want a job or training.

 

Every one should have a choice

 

 

 

PS colts current union guys  are making the lowest quality 1911s that colt EVER made,sloppy crap

 

In the 50s 60s or even 70s those pistols were quite nice

[G O B 3,516]

Union bashing seems to be a disease here, you guys sound like liberals with the hate you spew. I have worked both sides of the isle in the same industry. I have even been the victim of dishonest union officials - but the non union company cut DANGEROUS corners, cheated customers - and every US Government job they did had to be redone by Union workers to be made safe and actually work!

 

 There are a few GOOD non union companies, and there are a few bad union companies - but in the trades the union companies are more profitable for both labor and management , due to the fact that the work is done by professionals that are trained and proud of their work. The 'do-over" rate for non union work costs a lot more than the difference in wages!

 

Public unions on the other hand are a completely different animal. Those need a lot of chlorine in their gene pool.

[patriot 7,197]

Most of the GOOD guns from Colt were designed generations ago and can be had from ITALY made better and cheaper. Fuck Colt.

Edited July 20, 2014 by patriot

[thebuns1 4,323]

Liberals? Really? Perhaps I was a little harsh in my previous statement, but the thing that kills me about Unions the most is that they protect the jobs of people that dont deserve them. Ive seen this happen with the UAW from both Ford and Chrysler. Im not going to say that they are ALL bad, but many of the big ones are bullshit.

[YOT 3,743]

Liberals? Really? Perhaps I was a little harsh in my previous statement, but the thing that kills me about Unions the most is that they protect the jobs of people that dont deserve them. Ive seen this happen with the UAW from both Ford and Chrysler. Im not going to say that they are ALL bad, but many of the big ones are bullshit.

Fuck the AFL-CIO. Our union went independent ten years ago now and we are so much better off for it.

[LuPiN8oR 333]

Hey capt hero, don't forget the vw plant in Tennessee, the big Union people forced them to vote on whether to unionize or not, the workers voted not to unionize, so the union people demanded they vote again! I've also heard of the union people harassing and bullying people in an attempt to intimidate any opposition. Without a foothold in Tennessee they know unionization of the south is a total crapshoot.

[Big John! 2,062]

Union bashing seems to be a disease here, you guys sound like liberals with the hate you spew. I have worked both sides of the isle in the same industry. I have even been the victim of dishonest union officials - but the non union company cut DANGEROUS corners, cheated customers - and every US Government job they did had to be redone by Union workers to be made safe and actually work!

 

 There are a few GOOD non union companies, and there are a few bad union companies - but in the trades the union companies are more profitable for both labor and management , due to the fact that the work is done by professionals that are trained and proud of their work. The 'do-over" rate for non union work costs a lot more than the difference in wages!

 

Public unions on the other hand are a completely different animal. Those need a lot of chlorine in their gene pool.

Hate?  Fatty painted the picture.  I gave my opinion of his painting.  Remember, entitlement = liberal.

Hate?  I recall a union member in this thread saying something to the effect of people that aren't in unions are too drunk and stupid to do the job as good as him.

 

I've got a few miles under my belt in elevators.  Fatty must have worked on all of them as I'm still here to talk about it.

 

I did have a little problem at the Luxor with an inclinator that decided to stop and roll slowly back a few floors before stopping.  Scared the shit out of a few in the inclinator and I have to admit that I was happy to get off that ride.  Must have been serviced by and drunk and stupid non union guy

[patriot 7,197]

Hey capt hero, don't forget the vw plant in Tennessee, the big Union people forced them to vote on whether to unionize or not, the workers voted not to unionize, so the union people demanded they vote again! I've also heard of the union people harassing and bullying people in an attempt to intimidate any opposition. Without a foothold in Tennessee they know unionization of the south is a total crapshoot.

I have 1st hand experience with the IBEW when I worked for ConRail. It was a closed shop (which is bullshit) but I needed a job, so I took it. My opinion of being forced to pay protection money to a thug union was no secret. My life was threatened several times. My tires were spiked using crude caltrops made on company time with company materials. My tools (which I had to provide) were sabotaged or stolen on several occasions.

 

I saw the guy who spiked my tires. I told him that I knew where he lived, and that I'd burn his house down with him in it if something ever happened to me or mine.

I'd never do that, but he didn't know it.

 

It stopped after that.

 

Fuck ALL unions. It's a protection racket.

Edited July 20, 2014 by patriot

[mostholycerebus 415]

Those that bash unions ( not darth, I understand that he only posted a link to an article) I've found are as well educated on unions as liberals are on guns.

Have to agree with this. Wife is a teacher, and when discussions come up, people universally blame teachers for what lies at the feet of non-union administration.

 

The development of unions IS part of the free market.

 

Unions focus on safety was the free market response to unsafe conditions. Government regulation of safety is the socialist response, and more expensive to implement. Free men should determine what they are willing to risk, and for what wage.

 

Unions save a company money through the grievance process. Unions give managers more options to address a problem employee than the expensive hire-and-fire roulette.

 

Unions cause wages to rise for all, including non-union jobs.

 

Where they have fallen down is the quality control. The union label used to mean something, but like every other product in america (union or otherwise) they have abandoned that and leveraged their reputation for short term profits.

 

The biggest problem is in states like Illinois, where union participation is mandatory. Return all states to a 'right to work' situation and unions will shrink. But then Unions will be forced to compete in the market: give value for the chunk they take out of our paycheck every week.

[mostholycerebus 415]

I guess every union is different too though. I just joined one, and I don't think I'll stay in it forever, but I'll be taught what I need to know in my trade. I see some here have said it near impossible to fire a union employee and that might be true, but the company I work for will hand you your walking papers in a second. Our HR manager keeps records of all employees, and if the hall tries to send a shitty worker according to her records she says no and asks for a different one.

My uncle-in-law runs a carpenter crew, and ive seen the same thing. The hall sends him guys all the time for short-term jobs, and everyone ive seen has busted their ass. Some bust it less then others: they speed-walk the lumber from one end of the building to the other, instead of jogging it. By lunch my uncle is having a talk with them, and if they dont pick it up, by end of shift they are gone and the hall sends someone else.

 

NO WAY a non-union boss could get away with that. I guarantee the company he works for is getting every penny's worth. His crew probably does the work of twice as many 'regular guys', every single day. He also gets as much vacation time as he wants: he simply doesnt get paid for days he doesnt work.

[horatio 515]

I was going through some of my previous posts to send a message out to a member and when I reread some of the things I wrote and i felt the need to say something. What I had meant to say was that the people I have dealt with locally who were non union were in general, too drunk or stupid to do the job. I stand by this statement because , sadly, it is what I have experienced. To say anything else would be a lie on what I have experienced.

 

Sadly I did not convey what I wanted to say correctly. Upon rereading, I realize that it essentially says that everyone not in a union is an idiot. I would like to take this time to apologize to every member of this forum. This is not what I had intended to say. The people of this forum are some of the most resourceful, innovative, and hardworking people I have met union or not.

 

I stick by the defense of my union and always will. But it troubles me to have insulted the members of this forum, so again, I am sorry for insulting you. That comment was not meant for any one of you. Should anyone like to continue to discuss the union issue, please feel free to pm me. I would like to try to give this thread back to its original purpose if that is at all possible at this point. Thanks

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

The only gun Colt ever made that caught my fancy was the nickel plated Python.

That gun is worth it's weight in gold now. Wish I would have got one back in the day.

[horatio 515]

I hear you shotgun. I have been wanting to buy one of those for years. The walking dead has not helped this....

 

I will buy one, eventually. And it will probably be the only colt purchase I ever make.

[Thor's Hammer 33]

Personally, I can't wait until my LE6920SOCOM gets here. It will be my first AR, and it's a darn near duplicate of what we were issued.

 

I wouldn't write Colt off just yet. They may just come around.

 

Plus, they're throwing in a free jacket! 

[storm6490 2,768]

I like colts. They made some great 1911 pistols. They made some great wheel guns. Never cared for but owned the AR platforms from them in the past. They should concentrate on the .45 and other pistol designs. Make them affordable since it's rarely a gunsmith building them unless it comes out of the custom shop. The price has gone way up and the quality has gone down with cheaper automated processes and push button engineering. The old pistols were hand made by real gunsmiths. Kinda like how framers call themselves carpenters now, there seems to be a lot of wannabe gunsmiths.

 

If a man can take a solid block of steel and turn it into a revolver, he is a gunsmith.

 

Anyway, colt has always made qualty weapons that always appreciate over time with care. My gold cup drives tacks and is as old as I am. It makes almost any kimber shoot and look like a piece of shit. If colt concentrated on this hand made type quality again, they would not need government contracts to stay allive.

 

It's true, they started to suck when they made ass loads of federal tax dollars selling ok rifles to militaries around the globe. It was not about the american consumer, the largest weapons purchaser in the world, it was about sucking gubmint teet.