Sim_Player 1,939 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry, that was my first thought. She used to confiscate every cap gun or BB gun that I brought into the house! She also hated pit bulls until she was handed a bottle fed puppy and raised it to 4 months and 35 lbs. She is coming to terms with owning a powerful dog. My mom is in her 60's. I offered to take her shooting, where to apply for a CPL, and where to sign up for gun safety classes. Any other advise for a crazy mom? It's funny, she even mentioned, "The Cool Factor", I wanted to laugh my as off but, something in me would'nt allow it. We discussed the myths that she was taught in the 70's and she agreed, they were lies. So many lies. Edited July 22, 2014 by Sim_Player 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I would love this oppertunity. Take her out on a gun date to the range and then the LGS. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 That's cool as hell Sim. As Drifter said... A range date with moms, then to the LGS, then a nice lunch or dinner. My mom is so scared of guns that I wouldn't trust her with one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 That's great. I suggest a 1911 in 9mm or a j frame in 22 mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 357 Revolver. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termite 463 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Wheel gun in calber that SHE prefers. Maybe a Rhino, recoil is nothing with 38 shells, and very light in 357. The Rhino's are not a heavy gun, but the grip may take some getting used to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Eagle 839 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yep. Many of the brainwashed are awakening and realizing the lies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yakdung 2,926 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I would suggest considering a Glock 42 or a Ruger LCR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_LCR 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 38 wheelgun without a doubt. 357 is too much recoil for a 60 year old woman, and make sure it has an exposed hammer. most older women cant rack the slide on even a 380. plus a wheelgun, if it dont go bang, you pull the trigger again and it goes bang on a new round, no fiddly fucking around with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I recently went through this situation with my own mother and quickly discovered a few things. Getting the CCW is paramount and everyone that can legally obtain one should, whether or not they ever decide to carry or own a firearm. Should she make the decision that it's time to carry, she's immediately ready to go. So good for you mom! ANY semi-auto above .22LR has a slide spring that is too difficult for her to manage. I'm not too sure how she would do with a 12lb trigger on most revolvers either. Her general attitude about gun safety after close to 70 years of not giving it much thought, is that she STILL doesn't give it much thought. Even after plenty of proper training she handles a pistol in ways that made me take it from her. It sounds terrible to say, but the "old dog" isn't learning new tricks to terribly well. Obviously that is going to vary person-to-person... It's just something to look out for. ------- I'll throw my opinions out there, in general about newbie firearms. I'm not looking for a flame war and these are just my opinions. Most of you guys will already be aware of many of these concepts, but this is what I throw out to anyone thinking about making the jump into the hobby. -Initial cost, beyond the firearm, is a huge factor many aren't prepared for. Good muffs, glasses, cleaning supplies, tools, storage supplies, and ammo can pretty easily double the price of a first firearm. MOST newbies don't think about that... -When learning to shoot, nothing beats a rifle as a training tool. I personally feel that something like a Crossman air rifle is plenty enough to get the basics down, get comfortable with the idea of shooting, and is about the safest thing out there (single shot). Plus they're much less jarring to the senses than a real firearm. That is assuming she is strong enough to operate one. -EVERYONE should own a .22LR pistol, so a new shooter may as well start there to learn the basics if something like an air rifle is "too little". It would be long from my first choice for defense but it beats harsh language or throwing rocks. .22LR and .38 and #2 and #1 for US firearms fatality in the US, so it is viable for defense. -A Glock, an XD, or similar is a horrible choice for a newbie. Light triggers and few safeties are a bad combo for someone with no experience. They're also very expensive. Some of you may find my position controversial, that's fine... -A .357 chassis gun is a great suggestion, but like Ben just said, it's going to be a whollop of a round for a newbie. If she can't handle the round there's no sense in paying the cost in both money and weight vs. a .38. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Get her a nice handgun for CC and a 12ga. pump shotty for the house. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I hate revolvers but a snub nose .357 or .38 would probably be the first thing I would recommend to a woman wanting a defense pistol. Revolvers are hard to screw up, and I have experienced the same thing as Maxwelhse - a lot of women are too weak to rack a slide on an auto pistol. My wife can't pull back the slide on either CZ-82 I have, one of which I bought for her. She tried a Ruger LCP and can do it a little easier, but still complains about it. I'm convinced most of this is mental, but some women are truly wimps - or in your case, senior citizens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VR762Shooter 838 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Get her out and let her try a few different things. Bring anything you can, and don't delay. My mom was in the same mindset a few years back. I'm still hoping to get her out to the range before she makes anymore downward slides but it isn't looking so good. Get her out, have some fun, and what she chooses from there she will just have to buy. I will say my wife got a snubby revolver and thought she would love it, she prefers my G17 more than her revolver, which I believe I have shot more than she did. So let the lady choose once she has had a good number of options placed in her hand Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I would love this oppertunity. Take her out on a gun date to the range and then the LGS. ^^^^^^^THIS is a GREAT idea, cept I wouldn't take her to a "RANGE" with a bunch of other people shooting, it might freak her out. Try to find a quiet place out in the sticks, just you and her. Shopping at the LGS is always a great time 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sim_Player 1,939 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 We'll have to see how my step-father reacts. He isn't exactly "firearm friendly". He thinks that military-style rifles should not be allowed. I just laugh and keep showing off my guns. I told her to try to get him to take the classes with her. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 One thing I would say, is that if one gets a CCW BOTH should have a CCW. I would hate to be in a "questionable" legal situation later if your mother was licensed, your step not, and he had to use her gun in a sudden change of heart to save their lives. You never know where that could lead. I've been trying to tell my Dad this very same thing but he's not interested. Since Mom still hasn't bought a gun it's really a moot point at this time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 If she can drive a car, she is more than capable of running any pistol or revolver. Get her whatever she likes that fits her hand and that she feels confident with. At her age, arthritis might be something too think about though. Also, make sure she has a good holster. That gets overlooked a lot. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronin38 2,117 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 If she can drive a car, she is more than capable of running any pistol or revolver. Get her whatever she likes that fits her hand and that she feels confident with. At her age, arthritis might be something too think about though. Also, make sure she has a good holster. That gets overlooked a lot. The car analogy doesn't work, because of part 2 of your statement. My Mom just got back in to shooting about 5 years ago (just before age 70) after decades of no shooting. She has arthritis in her thumbs, and just can't handle the recoil of much. She can fire about 10 rounds out of my Colt 380 Gov't Model, period. (She has tried a variety of my handguns, both auto's and revolvers.) However, she has a Walther PT-99, .22LR that she loves, and found a very good instructor who puts her and her friends through some very good shooting drills where they'll go through a full brick of ammo. sometimes! She also has a .32 Beretta Tomcat that she can go through 30 or 40 rounds with. I installed the magazine-extension finger grips on both of her magazines for it, which helped a lot. She's only about 5' tall, so finding a long arm was also a problem. She finally found a Youth Model 870 in .410 that she also likes a lot. 00 Buck out of is still pretty effective at home-defense range. I just wish it could hold more than 3 rounds. I couldn't find any kind of extension tubes for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 If she can drive a car, she is more than capable of running any pistol or revolver. I'm a little curious about that statement too. Although I am aware of many women who can do so just fine, my sister, my mother, and my EX all could not rack the slide on any of my semi-auto pistols. As a fairly big guy that doesn't have an issue with most thing I never gave it much thought, but is there some technique that should be taught to women? I just grab it and yank it. Done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 It was a counter point to what I occasionally hear in these kind of discussions re: auto pistols being too complex. I would say a revolver is going to be better for a novice than a lot of mouse guns that people tend to buy for women. There are also some pistols which would be physically difficult for some women to operate the slid. Or me for that matter. I have a very weak grip on my left hand. My friend Joel has deformed joints in his thumbs which means he has almost no pinch strength, so that probably rules those out for him too. One of the worst examples of autopistols people used to buy to give to women was the keltek p32. When those came out, I went to a store that had a full counter of them. The first one I grabbed, my fingers slid off of the slide attempting to chamber check it. I was shocked. I think a lot of women would have trouble with it. I think most men would too if they had sweaty or bloody hands. Worse, I went down the line and tried about 6 of them. Some were easy, some were like the first one, others were in between and gritty. It left me with a bit of an anti kel-tec bias. A full line of pretty colors and no quality control. My statement was more about more sensible guns. Pretty much anyone can rack the slide on a sheild or XDM, g26, or even an LCP. IMO it takes more skill to do a speed reload or clear a jam with a revolver than with most of these modern auto pistols. It also takes more practice to shoot competently with a double action with a heavy trigger, short barrel and only a hint of sights. As for technique? They usually say for those of us with weak grip to grab the slide with your hand at 90* rather than pinch it, hold the off hand close to the chest and push with the operating hand rather than pulling. It uses your muscles where you have more leverage. I find that grip awkward, but it does make sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 357 Revolver. +1, but only load it with .38 Special ammunition (while considering +P). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 SIM, ALL NEW SHOOTERS SHOULD START OUT WITH A .22, DUE TO LOW PRICE OF AMMO, LOW RECOIL, LOW NOISE. BUY A USED GEN3 G19, OR G26, WHICHEVER FITS HER HAND BEST. YOU'VE THEN GOT THE SAME GRIP AND TRIGGER PULL FOR BOTH TRAINING AND FIGHTING CALIBERS. GO TO LONEWOLFDOTCOM, THEY PRESENTLY HAVE ADVANTAGE ARMS .22 CONVERSION KITS FOR BOTH. GO TO GLOCKSTORE.COM AND GET THE "NO-HORN" SLIDE PULL (PICTURED BELOW) TO HELP WITH SLIDE MANIPULATION. GET THE CHEAPEST LASER YOU CAN FIND AND LOCK IT ON THE FRAME RAIL. START HER OFF WITH THE .22 CONVERSION UNIT, UNTIL SHE'S READY TO "GRADUATE" TO THE 9mm. THE LASER SHOULD BE ON AT ALL TIMES; THAT RED/GREEN DOT WILDLY WAVING ALL OVER THE PLACE WILL PROVIDE GRAPHIC EVIDENCE TO HER OF HER MUZZLE TRANSGRESSIONS, MORE THAN ALL THE LECTURES IN THE WORLD. LEAVE THE .22 UNIT ON IT, UNTIL SHE'S READY TO "STEP UP"; IF SHE NEEDS TO ACTUALLY US IT IN THE MEANTIME, A HIT FROM A .22 BEATS PRAYING FOR MERCY, EVERY DAY. JESS1344 THIS WORKS WITH EITHER OVERHAND OR SLINGSHOT COCKING METHOD. CONSIDERING GETTING SOME MYSELF, AS I HAVE A LITTLE HEAVIER THAN STOCK RECOIL SPRINGS ON ALL MINE. COMES IN VARIOUS COLORS, INCLUDING PINK, FOR THE LADIES. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 It was a counter point to what I occasionally hear in these kind of discussions re: auto pistols being too complex. I would say a revolver is going to be better for a novice than a lot of mouse guns that people tend to buy for women. There are also some pistols which would be physically difficult for some women to operate the slid. Or me for that matter. I have a very weak grip on my left hand. My friend Joel has deformed joints in his thumbs which means he has almost no pinch strength, so that probably rules those out for him too. One of the worst examples of autopistols people used to buy to give to women was the keltek p32. When those came out, I went to a store that had a full counter of them. The first one I grabbed, my fingers slid off of the slide attempting to chamber check it. I was shocked. I think a lot of women would have trouble with it. I think most men would too if they had sweaty or bloody hands. Worse, I went down the line and tried about 6 of them. Some were easy, some were like the first one, others were in between and gritty. It left me with a bit of an anti kel-tec bias. A full line of pretty colors and no quality control. My statement was more about more sensible guns. Pretty much anyone can rack the slide on a sheild or XDM, g26, or even an LCP. IMO it takes more skill to do a speed reload or clear a jam with a revolver than with most of these modern auto pistols. It also takes more practice to shoot competently with a double action with a heavy trigger, short barrel and only a hint of sights. As for technique? They usually say for those of us with weak grip to grab the slide with your hand at 90* rather than pinch it, hold the off hand close to the chest and push with the operating hand rather than pulling. It uses your muscles where you have more leverage. I find that grip awkward, but it does make sense. I agree with your point the perception that women are somehow "too dumb" to operate a semi. That's just BS. HOWEVER, you did essentially just name 2 of my firearms that the 3 women I mentioned can't rack. G21 and LC9. I'll try your suggestion about technique the next time an opportunity comes up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 The whole point is to let them try and find out what they like and what they individually can run well, the same as we would do ourselves. There are a lot of great guns out of there that leave the controls just out of my reach. I have medium to small hands and find guns that work well for me tend to with ladies. I thought the LC9 fit well, but the trigger just sucked. It's a great size and shape to carry. Is the g21 particularly hard to rack? I think glocks are kind of slippery, but I never thought of one as hard to work the slide. -- I really like what H&K did on their new pistol. It's basically what I have been wishing they all would do. My Pt99 has that lovely beretta contour on the front of the slide by the muzzle that is a really great shape to grab in a really bad place. I wish they would consider doing deeper scallops on the rear of slides rather than just thin small serrations. I do think the M&P plastic pistols do a really good job with the serrations. There are also those strange looking glock loops for arthritic people. It seems like a work around, but whatever works.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I agree overall with the idea of trying out what fits best. My original comment was intended to share my experience with the few women I've introduced to firearms and the problems I've encountered. It was dumb of me to not mention letting them try a few things out. I suppose I just figured it was the natural thing to do. The Glock problems shocked the crap out of me.. It's not difficult at all to rack IMO, but they can't do it. The LC9 is MUCH harder to rack, IMO, and I don't think its all that difficult either. None of them made it past 1/2" of travel on the LC9 slide. I have GIANT hands and the LC9 fits me, and the women, great. They just can't operate it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 The whole point is to let them try and find out what they like and what they individually can run well, the same as we would do ourselves. There are a lot of great guns out of there that leave the controls just out of my reach. I have medium to small hands and find guns that work well for me tend to with ladies. I thought the LC9 fit well, but the trigger just sucked. It's a great size and shape to carry. Is the g21 particularly hard to rack? I think glocks are kind of slippery, but I never thought of one as hard to work the slide. -- I really like what H&K did on their new pistol. It's basically what I have been wishing they all would do. My Pt99 has that lovely beretta contour on the front of the slide by the muzzle that is a really great shape to grab in a really bad place. I wish they would consider doing deeper scallops on the rear of slides rather than just thin small serrations. I do think the M&P plastic pistols do a really good job with the serrations. There are also those strange looking glock loops for arthritic people. It seems like a work around, but whatever works.... I agree overall with the idea of trying out what fits best. My original comment was intended to share my experience with the few women I've introduced to firearms and the problems I've encountered. It was dumb of me to not mention letting them try a few things out. I suppose I just figured it was the natural thing to do. The Glock problems shocked the crap out of me.. It's not difficult at all to rack IMO, but they can't do it. The LC9 is MUCH harder to rack, IMO, and I don't think its all that difficult either. None of them made it past 1/2" of travel on the LC9 slide. I have GIANT hands and the LC9 fits me, and the women, great. They just can't operate it. GUYS, CHECK OUT THE GLOCK "NO HORN" SLIDE-PULLS FROM GLOCKSTOREDOTCOM, IN MY EMAIL ABOVE. THEY'RE ALUMINUM, AND THEY REPLACE THE STOCK GLOCK SLIDE BACK PLATE IN ABOUT 10 SECONDS. JESS1344 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Those things cost $50...yikes Edited July 24, 2014 by m1key Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 m1key, YEAH, BLOWS, I KNOW, UNTIL YOU, OR MORE LIKELY A LOVED ONE, NOT ENTIRELY COMFORTABLE WITH HAVING A GLOCK AROUND WITH A ROUND IN THE TUBE, NEEDS IT IN A HURRY, AND THEN CAN'T GET A ROUND CHAMBERED, DUE TO LACK OF HAND STRENGTH. AT THAT POINT, YOU, OR WHOMEVER, WOULD PAY THREE TIMES THAT FOR ONE. THAT'S ALSO WHY I SUGGESTED A USED GLOCK, THAT WAY, THE PRICE OF THE .22 CONVERSION, THE LASER. AND THE "NO HORN" ISN'T SUCH A COMBINED FINANCIAL BLOW. JESS1344 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Or teach them how to charge it on the rear site and an object like you would drill with any other semi-auto. If two hand on the grip and the side of a fridge doesn't get it racked nothing will. I have strong opinions on Glocks and one of them is no crap bolted on to Glocks. This isn't going to help his mom find a carry piece though unless she gets a bloodlust to own a Glock, refuses all others, and can't rack it. Sounds like a bad plan to me. Edited July 24, 2014 by Maxwelhse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 MAX, THERE'S NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMETHING IMMEDIATELY AT HAND TO RACK IT AGAINST, PLUS, WITH A FEMALE, IS SHE GOING TO HAVE THE STRENGTH, OR VIOLENCE OF ACTION TO ACCOMPLISH THIS SIGHT-COCKING? WHAT IF IT SLIPS OFF WHATEVER SHE'S COCKING IT AGAINST, THEREBY SHORT-STROKING IT, AND SHE INDUCES A STOPPAGE? ADD TO THAT, WOULD SHE EVEN HAVE THE PRESENCE-OF-MIND, UNDER WHAT WOULD ESSENTIALLY BE COMBAT CONDITIONS, TO EVEN THINK TO DO THIS? PRACTICE ALL YOU LIKE, I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE GOING TO REACT, AND HOW WELL, UNTIL THINGS HIT THE FAN FOR REAL. WITH THAT LITTLE COCKING DOO-DAD ON THE REAR OF THE SLIDE, IT'S ALWAYS THERE TO RENDER ASSISTANCE WITHOUT HAVING TO EVEN THINK ABOUT SOME SEPARATE ACTION. JUS' MY JESS1344 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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