storm6490 2,768 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 So, I just got my Sam7K that I was saving up for. A neat little pistol. I was pretty upset to take it home, out of the box and find that the rear sight block was welded on worse than a century on a drunken monday. I called KVAR to talk to customer service, they told me to call Arsenal. We shall see how this rolls. Damn it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Oh no not the almighty end all be all better than anything anyone else has ever known great elite Arsenal! Really! 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Oh no not the almighty end all be all better than anything anyone else has ever known great elite Arsenal! Really! Fucking great. Sounds like you have been down that road. Hope they are on the level and square this away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LuPiN8oR 333 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 It seems like almost all krink style rear sights have some cant to them. Id tell ya to hit it with a hammer like i did my pap m92 but something tells me you won't wanna go that route. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I hope they care enough about that blown up out of proportion, almighty shit don't ever stink reputation some of these assclowns around here like to keep on claiming they have just to justify their own spending habits. No brother I have not bought into any of it so I wish you the best. I have gone down the road with K Var's shitty customer service though in the past. Good luck hopefully Arsenal will claim it's a fluke and take good care of you for free. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VR762Shooter 838 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 How did the guy sighting that in not see that it was that bad? Hope they straighten this out for you. If not I know one more company I will be avoiding like the plague 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I tried to call Arsenal and they close early in the day. I left my number with them on email and telephone to call me tomorrow. Then, I noticed on the bottom of the KVAR invoice it states, The buyer has 30 days from receipt to return or exchange for any reason. Called them back and they said that does not apply to firearms. Not stated on the paper but I guess it did somewhere online while I was ordering. I did not take notice to it. I was very excited to have this pistol. Haven't been that excited about firearms since the RFB and the SAIGA12. Real bummer that I could have done a better job of putting that sight on there in my garage while hammered. After talking to KVAR and asking a few more questions about Arsenal, I get the feeling that they will take care of me. For now, I'm not touching this thing. I cleared it, looked down the sights and put it back in the box. It would be like ordering a new AMG mercedes, showing up at the dealership to pick up your new car and then noticing that your steering wheel is tweaked out of center by two inches and can't be fixed. How did the guy sighting that in not see that it was that bad? Hope they straighten this out for you. If not I know one more company I will be avoiding like the plague That and Sellers need to inspect the deck before they ship stuff out. Anybody with more than a week's worth of shooting can tell this thing aint right. I hope they care enough about that blown up out of proportion, almighty shit don't ever stink reputation some of these assclowns around here like to keep on claiming they have just to justify their own spending habits. No brother I have not bought into any of it so I wish you the best. I have gone down the road with K Var's shitty customer service though in the past. Good luck hopefully Arsenal will claim it's a fluke and take good care of you for free. It's already costing me. My time. It seems like almost all krink style rear sights have some cant to them. Id tell ya to hit it with a hammer like i did my pap m92 but something tells me you won't wanna go that route. No excuse coming from Arsenal. These are new builds not from parts kits. They were never assembled by children in a cave, cut in half and then put back together in America. If you missed this during inspection at the Bulgarian plant, you would be written up and your mistake documented. I expect that kind of detail when paying too much for a pistol that should be a cut above the rest. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) There's been quite a bit of canted sight and or gas block Arsenals within the last year or so (lots of threads on AKFiles). The Century WASR's went up in quality the same time Arsenal's quality has diminished. Edited September 10, 2014 by Mullet Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Thier CS isn't as shitty as it once was. I've never had the canted issues with either of the ones I own. seems the Bulgarians have been tainted by the Russian vodka. Be persistent. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 If they won't fix it just use the method I mentioned on the M92 pap thread that's been around a while. Mine came out perfect after the fix. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 My desire for an SLR107 has just gone away. For what they charge I expect damn good. That is just plain shitty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaSlinger 61 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Thats some serious bullshit. I have a wasr that i bought in like'05 and it was good to go out the box. Ive never sighted it in, never needed to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I wouldn't write them off just yet. I always try to buy when I can see the rifle first. Since they advertise the SAM7 series as top notch rifles, they better make it right. Just give them a chance to do so. All the SLRs I've seen have had fucked up sights. Sad yes. Even sadder is the price. And the new SGLs aren't any better. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
U.S. Pratorean 1,234 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Can you show that at a different angle? I'm seeing the base slightly off to the left on the cover. Mine seems straight on but when co-sighted with the PK-AS the aperture looks just like yours but to the left instead of the right. There is still 1/4" space between the scope and the rear sight. I know of one guy that replaced the top cover with a standard krink cover and sight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Out of curiousity, have you tried using a laser bore sight to confirm that perhaps the rifle is perfectly sighted in despite the canted sights? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoeAK 337 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Can you show that at a different angle? I'm seeing the base slightly off to the left on the cover. Mine seems straight on but when co-sighted with the PK-AS the aperture looks just like yours but to the left instead of the right. There is still 1/4" space between the scope and the rear sight. I know of one guy that replaced the top cover with a standard krink cover and sight. The PK-AS isn't centered over the bore unless you have a version made to mount on a picatinny rail. Edited September 11, 2014 by JoeAK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
U.S. Pratorean 1,234 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Can you show that at a different angle? I'm seeing the base slightly off to the left on the cover. Mine seems straight on but when co-sighted with the PK-AS the aperture looks just like yours but to the left instead of the right. There is still 1/4" space between the scope and the rear sight. I know of one guy that replaced the top cover with a standard krink cover and sight. The PK-AS isn't centered over the bore unless you have a version made to mount on a picatinny rail. Yeah, that's why this optic is on this gun because the rear sight precludes the use of any over the bore optic with this rear sight setup. Co-sighting is possible with this setup as the BUIS can be used in conjunction with the optic. You can use both at the same time. Not co-witnessed. Edited September 11, 2014 by JAG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 That sucks. I am about to use an almost brand new one for a Krink parts donor. The sight on it has a little can't, but it hits with the sight centered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 If they won't fix it just use the method I mentioned on the M92 pap thread that's been around a while. Mine came out perfect after the fix. If they don't fix it, I will kill the credit card and have them come and get their piece of art. This rifle is unacceptable. No fucking way will I own a 1200 dollar pistol I cant sight in. It's a major flaw and a NOGO. My guess is that they will take it back and find me a good one. Out of curiousity, have you tried using a laser bore sight to confirm that perhaps the rifle is perfectly sighted in despite the canted sights? I picked up the pistol and almost threw up. I don't give a shit if it's sighted in or not. If you make an windage adjustment which I'm sure I will have to do for left handed shooting, you start to dick with the elevation at the same time. No way. I'm not down with 3 axis jerry rigging of a 1200 dollar pistol. The whole cover looks like shit. little scratches exposing metals, not a huge deal on an AK but it just adds to the shit show. Looks like the Bulgarians did a mechanical bore sight to get the sucker close enough, that was damn near buried on the right guard. My wife is a green in the gills novice, came home from work and I let her pick it up. She says, "it's bent." That's fucking bad. The photo makes it look much less dicked up than when you hold it in person. I wouldn't write them off just yet. I always try to buy when I can see the rifle first. Since they advertise the SAM7 series as top notch rifles, they better make it right. Just give them a chance to do so. All the SLRs I've seen have had fucked up sights. Sad yes. Even sadder is the price. And the new SGLs aren't any better. My mechanic buddy got to look at it tonight. He does not like AK platforms but he works on cars, not guns. Sadly, he said... As a mechanic, if someone sold me a part like this, I would turn it back to them and never buy from them again. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I spoke with Arsenal this morning. The lady on the phone was well spoken and understanding. She had me email the invoice from KVAR and also a photo of the pistol. I'm going to go find some elk and deer with the kids so I will report back in what happens with the process. Shit happens, russia, romania and bulgaria all have drunken mondays with their rifles. Look forward to shooting the hell out of this one. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Just looking at the dust cover hinge at the front trunnion, looks like FSB/GB may be canted as well. Otherwise I would try to work with Arsenal to get a replacement dust cover assy. so as to avoid FFL fees if possible. I don't know if Arsenal will ship a replacement back to your door. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Just looking at the dust cover hinge at the front trunnion, looks like FSB/GB may be canted as well. Otherwise I would try to work with Arsenal to get a replacement dust cover assy. so as to avoid FFL fees if possible. I don't know if Arsenal will ship a replacement back to your door. dust cover has a matching number. if they replaced it at the shop and matched it, fine. i expect a replacement and my dealer will waive the ffl fee. i helped them fix their metal door today. p.s. they can't ship me a replacement by law. there would be another check. they then have to put my old pistol back on the books. Edited September 11, 2014 by Stryker0946 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 What the hell do you even need a sight on a gun like that for, just slap in a drum and start yanking the trig. Problem solved 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 What the hell do you even need a sight on a gun like that for, just slap in a drum and start yanking the trig. Problem solved It's a pretty accurate pistol when the sights aren't totally skull fucked. or so im told. haven't even shot it. don't care to. im an optics and irons nazi. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Though you ordered one of the new 45deg offset irons sights, so your red dot could sit over the center of bore! Lmfao that's sucks!!! I own Arsenal products and I AM one of those idiots that would pay a couple hundred more for the name. Not a 1000$ more. But now I may need to reconsider my "sight unseen" (excuse the malicious pun) purchase policy. As a mechanical contractor I have learned "professional" doesn't mean never making mistakes. I coined the term "make your fuck-ups, come-up" they are actually improvement! So if arsenal is real good they'll have the offset irons for sale next week, for 50$ more! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I have always said "A fuck-up is only a fuck-up if the fucker can't do the fix-up". 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Not trying to defend them here but I dont see where the sights are "totaly skull fucked" To me "totaly skull fucked" would mean they were beat on with a hammer then maybe put into a hydrolic press, maybe beat against the ground for a good enough center. What you have there is slightly canted. Im not saying it acceptable but "totaly skull fucked" is a bit over exaggerated Can you show that at a different angle? I'm seeing the base slightly off to the left on the cover. Mine seems straight on but when co-sighted with the PK-AS the aperture looks just like yours but to the left instead of the right. There is still 1/4" space between the scope and the rear sight. I know of one guy that replaced the top cover with a standard krink cover and sight. The PK-AS isn't centered over the bore unless you have a version made to mount on a picatinny rail. Yeah, that's why this optic is on this gun because the rear sight precludes the use of any over the bore optic with this rear sight setup.Co-sighting is possible with this setup as the BUIS can be used in conjunction with the optic. You can use both at the same time. Not co-witnessed. What?? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 If they won't fix it just use the method I mentioned on the M92 pap thread that's been around a while. Mine came out perfect after the fix. I forgot what the hell we were tallkingabout. Um... better go take a cold shower after viewing your avatar..... nice.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Not trying to defend them here but I dont see where the sights are "totaly skull fucked" To me "totaly skull fucked" would mean they were beat on with a hammer then maybe put into a hydrolic press, maybe beat against the ground for a good enough center. What you have there is slightly canted. Im not saying it acceptable but "totaly skull fucked" is a bit over exaggerated Can you show that at a different angle? I'm seeing the base slightly off to the left on the cover. Mine seems straight on but when co-sighted with the PK-AS the aperture looks just like yours but to the left instead of the right. There is still 1/4" space between the scope and the rear sight. I know of one guy that replaced the top cover with a standard krink cover and sight. The PK-AS isn't centered over the bore unless you have a version made to mount on a picatinny rail. Yeah, that's why this optic is on this gun because the rear sight precludes the use of any over the bore optic with this rear sight setup. Co-sighting is possible with this setup as the BUIS can be used in conjunction with the optic. You can use both at the same time. Not co-witnessed. What?? In my world, starting with scouts, cmp and infantry... your sights are important. If you purchase a 1200 dollar pistol, the sights should be SQUARE and LEVEL. My pistol came with the sight assembly riveted on at an angle an the drunken Bulgarian at the factory was lazy and adjusted the windage right, hard right. All the way to the guard. There is no more available windage adjustment to bring the round right. On 99.999 percent of all rifles and pistols, your front and rear sights will be level. They will be somewhere in the middle of the row when roughly bore sighted on the rear sight. same with the front sight post. This allows the user to adjust for their style. Not only won't this pistol allow any movement of the aperture to the right, if you then adjust your windage left, it also drags the poi down in elevation since the fucker is at an angle. This is the biggest problem when you have a sight that is not just offset but off level. It's beyond fucked. It's skull fucked. I would expect this from a Century build for around 500 bucks, not an Arsenal. I guess the Izhmash factory has spoiled me with their consistent production. This pistol is supposed to be surprisingly accurate and will be used with open sights only. I never intend to put an optic on it. Without sights that work, it might as well be a stamped receiver PAP and a 75rd drum. ............................................................................ ............................................................................ ............................................................................ Got an email from Arsenal right away, I get to send my pistol back at my cost and then probably pay to have a new transfer done. The shop that did the transfer for me earlier may waive the fees. Now to take about 3 to 4 hours to pack the rifle up, label it properly, put the dogs away, get the kids in the car and get to the post office and insure a delivery to nevada. The email stated a minimum of 3-5 weeks. I sure as fuck hope that is just for legal reasons. If they really take that long to exchange a defective item, I will sell the fucker when it comes back and stay far, far the fuck away from KVAR and Arsenal. Edited September 12, 2014 by Stryker0946 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) I guess we have a different level of understanding skull fucked. To me it means strappning a nade to the front sights then running it over with a tank wich is dragging a large boulder behind it. Yep deffinetly fucked, nothing can be done. What you have are canted sights that need to be re adjusted. DO they come in as a pistol or are they just half assembled? I dont see a difference between the PAP and this Arsenal. Had both styles of AK neither one was better then the other. The whole milled = greater accuracy is a myth. Some individual guns are more accurate then others, true, but thats as far as it goes Edited September 12, 2014 by Arik 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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