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MikeD

Vepr-12 Drum, What should have been...

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Here is a concept I made. 23rds. This one can also load on a closed bolt, activate the last round bolt hold open and doesn’t bust like a melon or damage the internal sprocket if dropped fully loaded let alone empty. The pic makes it look like the tower area is longer but it does fit flush to the magwell...

 

I was totally scratching my head the first time I saw the 25rd drum. Crazy how much bigger it is for just 2 more rounds. A perfect example on the difference design can make in a product...

post-2662-0-84012400-1517436434_thumb.jpeg

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Well, the SGM 25 rounder I bought for testing sucks. It can't keep up with me like the MD-20s I have will. I think you could sell some of those. I'd buy at least a couple for testing. That's the only time I fire Vepr-12s anymore.

 

I see what you did there. Well done.

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Looks like an awesome idea Mike.  Is that a one off or can you knock out a few more ??? For testing purposes!!!  I'd take 6 off your hands if you can produce.  You're even close enough that I'd road trip and pick them up.

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Mike, you are one of very few who designs wisely and actually understands what we want.

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My point is that in the niche world of 12g AK's the doubles are going to sell.

Look at how the MD20 sold and you didn't see it marketed like junk ass ProMag or SGM.

The market is there, even if new guns aren't coming in.

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Volume of production determines the price. If a mold costs $25,000  and you only sell 700 mags ....

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My point is that in the niche world of 12g AK's the doubles are going to sell.

Look at how the MD20 sold and you didn't see it marketed like junk ass ProMag or SGM.

The market is there, even if new guns aren't coming in.

You are a smart man! Theres more S-12/V-12 and clones then ever. S-12/V-12/KS-12/DDI-12/Trench 12/Lynx and more coming (like the new tristar bull pup). Theres more damn shotguns that take S-12/V-12 type mags then when the russians were coming in. And guess what? You dont have to be a rocket surgeon to figure out that they will all need MULTIPLE extra mags! Prefferably reliable,quality mags with good capacity. And dont forget firing pins,extractors,springs,bolts,carriers etc etc..you know, the stuff that keeps the gun from becoming an extremely expensive paperweight. The stuff that is not currently availible and you would have a complete monopoly on if offered for sale.

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Market?

CSSPECS flourishes in this market.

they dont need to sell in the volum that polymer molds require....

 

 

Correct.. We make tooling in house so our cost for a tooling set is a lot lower than someone who has to buy it, and we do the metal cutting and forming vs needing to have an injection molding house do the work (plastic injection machines are big and expensive).. So lower cost of development but higher cost per part, Basically my costs flat line at around 1000 parts, they don't go down because the cost is the time it takes a person to insert and remove the part from the press.

 

One question I have with the photo of the drum.. How did they eliminate the need for the dummy rounds in the tower? Because a 20 round drum body with a tower that is three rounds tall is 20 rounds plus three dummy rounds that are needed to fill space of the tower, the only way around this would be a follower arm on some sort of cam arm that would complete the feeding into the tower without occupying the spaces in the drum.. My understanding of the MD arms drum is that it has either 20 or 21 spaces with one occupied by the dummy round and one live round stays in the feed tower.

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It is a follower arm that nest into the sprocket.  You can see the end of it to the left of the scoop.  I wanted to do this with the MD-20 but ran out of prototyping money and had to roll with it as originally designed.  It replaces the need for the dummy round and the follower.  Each of which took up a shell space.  The MD-20 could have been the MD-22, lol...

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Mike, we need you. You know you love this stuff and you are one of few who are really wired for it. Stop ignoring the call. 

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So I've been an occasional lurker at best, but I'm extremely curious what the OP might need to create a prototype run of these.

I've been wanting a drum mag, but these enormous oversized 25 rounders on the market are not appealing to me.  This is certainly superior, and if we could convince MikeD to make some I'd be in for a couple of them.

But I'm also interested in 10-12 round drum mags for the VEPR.  Is that a pipe dream at this point?

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Looks like drums will become unwieldy at around 25 rounds, and impractical under about 10 rounds.  10 round double stacks would  go well with that drum.

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On 8/23/2018 at 10:47 AM, CRZ said:

So I've been an occasional lurker at best, but I'm extremely curious what the OP might need to create a prototype run of these.

I've been wanting a drum mag, but these enormous oversized 25 rounders on the market are not appealing to me.  This is certainly superior, and if we could convince MikeD to make some I'd be in for a couple of them.

But I'm also interested in 10-12 round drum mags for the VEPR.  Is that a pipe dream at this point?

You could always use evl's trick to run S-12 mags and drums in your V-12.

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On 8/23/2018 at 11:25 AM, G O B said:

Looks like drums will become unwieldy at around 25 rounds, and impractical under about 10 rounds.  10 round double stacks would  go well with that drum.

Vepr-12/Saiga-12 drums and doublestacks, what shouldve been..

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On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 12:52 PM, Veprz said:

You could always use evl's trick to run S-12 mags and drums in your V-12.

Now that I know how to program a CNC mill, as soon as my pool company is closed and I catch up on custom work I am going to start on my long list of product offerings. That adapter will likely be the first offering. It won't be $80 like the barely working adapter Pauly was going to offer. Mine works and the price will be sane.

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If you were to ballpark a time frame, any idea?

On 9/3/2018 at 10:34 AM, evlblkwpnz said:

Now that I know how to program a CNC mill, as soon as my pool company is closed and I catch up on custom work I am going to start on my long list of product offerings. That adapter will likely be the first offering. It won't be $80 like the barely working adapter Pauly was going to offer. Mine works and the price will be sane.

 

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No clue. Too many factors. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel though, just gotta get there.

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On 9/3/2018 at 10:34 AM, evlblkwpnz said:

Now that I know how to program a CNC mill, as soon as my pool company is closed and I catch up on custom work I am going to start on my long list of product offerings. That adapter will likely be the first offering. It won't be $80 like the barely working adapter Pauly was going to offer. Mine works and the price will be sane.

Do It! You have or have access to a cnc mill? I know the S-12's/V-12's are your thing but do you do AK work? As in rifles?

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1 hour ago, Veprz said:

Do It! You have or have access to a cnc mill? I know the S-12's/V-12's are your thing but do you do AK work? As in rifles?

I definitely have access to a CNC mill.  I do a lot more than what people see here. I do some AK rifle work too, but being a one man shop I can't compete on kit build pricing from the major guys who have employees doing the work. For now, it is a matter of finalizing the closure of my other company and catching up SBS work. After that I can focus on product and marketing. I have been doing all I can to keep things throttled down until I am free of the other company. The past 5 years have been exhausting running two companies in different industries, but I am almost done with it and I am excited to be closing one chapter and moving on to the next.

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45 minutes ago, evlblkwpnz said:

I definitely have access to a CNC mill.  I do a lot more than what people see here. I do some AK rifle work too, but being a one man shop I can't compete on kit build pricing from the major guys who have employees doing the work. For now, it is a matter of finalizing the closure of my other company and catching up SBS work. After that I can focus on product and marketing. I have been doing all I can to keep things throttled down until I am free of the other company. The past 5 years have been exhausting running two companies in different industries, but I am almost done with it and I am excited to be closing one chapter and moving on to the next.

I could imagine how hectic that could be. Your work speaks for itself and Im sure your products will be a success. Best of luck and keep us posted.

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A lot of time is spent keeping the business side of things as they should be so it will be slow. I used to wonder why it took so long to get things to market, etc. Now I know, lol. I need a team of smart people who will work for the fun of it ;)

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On 9/8/2018 at 8:44 PM, evlblkwpnz said:

A lot of time is spent keeping the business side of things as they should be so it will be slow. I used to wonder why it took so long to get things to market, etc. Now I know, lol. I need a team of smart people who will work for the fun of it ;)

Took me 18 months from the time I said I was building a Saiga drum until it was shipping!  A lot in the industry said that was quick but it was the longest and scariest 18 months of my life!!!  

I tried to juggle both my tree service and the drum development in the beginning.  After a couple months I realized the tree business was slowing me greatly and would likely kill the drum.  I had to make a choice.  I came down out of the tree for good and hit the drum development fulltime.  By full time I mean basically all waking hours spent researching materials, production methods, mold design, websites, shipping and on and on!  I wouldn’t even allow time to eat!  I’d get up from the computer and go open the fridge just to immediately close it and go back the computer.  My mom and girlfriend started keeping it stocked with Ensure.  I would grab one or two of those if they were there, lol.  They kept me alive, barely... 

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You know with some of the people here, I would be asking questions if they used a phrase like "My mom and girlfriend"....

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