20 Round magazines=Very bad idea!!!!!

[44rdv4rk 0]

the 13 part count is the saiga shotgun count, which the ATF didn't consider to have a front trunnion, the rifles clearly do, so 14 is the count for the rifle, with mag.

 

that's 11 without the mag.

 

1. reciever

2. barrel

3. trunnion (front trunnion, the rear is just a tang... trunnion is a misnomer)

 

4. trigger

5. hammer

6. disconnector (not a sear, a disconnector)

 

7. piston

8. bolt

9. carrier

 

10. buttstock

11. handguard

 

12. mag body

13. mag follower

14. mag floorplate

[CTCStrela 0]

the 13 part count is the saiga shotgun count, which the ATF didn't consider to have a front trunnion, the rifles clearly do, so 14 is the count for the rifle, with mag.

 

that's 11 without the mag.

 

1. reciever

2. barrel

3. trunnion (front trunnion, the rear is just a tang... trunnion is a misnomer)

 

4. trigger

5. hammer

6. disconnector (not a sear, a disconnector)

 

7. piston

8. bolt

9. carrier

 

10. buttstock

11. handguard

 

12. mag body

13. mag follower

14. mag floorplate

 

Is that from the ATF?

 

Ak-47.net's schematic and description say they count the rear trunnion, and they call it a sear..

 

http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Parts.php

[O.S.O.K. 0]

the 13 part count is the saiga shotgun count, which the ATF didn't consider to have a front trunnion, the rifles clearly do, so 14 is the count for the rifle, with mag.

 

that's 11 without the mag.

 

1. reciever

2. barrel

3. trunnion (front trunnion, the rear is just a tang... trunnion is a misnomer)

 

4. trigger

5. hammer

6. disconnector (not a sear, a disconnector)

 

7. piston

8. bolt

9. carrier

 

10. buttstock

11. handguard

 

12. mag body

13. mag follower

14. mag floorplate

 

Is that from the ATF?

 

Ak-47.net's schematic and description say they count the rear trunnion, and they call it a sear..

 

http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Parts.php

 

They call the rear trunion a sear? I am a member of AK-47.net and have never seen this. The trunions (plural) count as one part as do the top and bottom handguards (when their's a top and bottom). Even if there is a schematic like you describe, it is wrong.

 

The above parts count list for the stock Saiga 308 is correct.

 

And I repeat: all of this parts count crap is unconstitutional. And we should all file a class action lawsuit based on the money we are out trying to comply with this shit. That's an actionable suit because we have been "damaged".

[CTCStrela 0]

the 13 part count is the saiga shotgun count, which the ATF didn't consider to have a front trunnion, the rifles clearly do, so 14 is the count for the rifle, with mag.

 

that's 11 without the mag.

 

1. reciever

2. barrel

3. trunnion (front trunnion, the rear is just a tang... trunnion is a misnomer)

 

4. trigger

5. hammer

6. disconnector (not a sear, a disconnector)

 

7. piston

8. bolt

9. carrier

 

10. buttstock

11. handguard

 

12. mag body

13. mag follower

14. mag floorplate

 

Is that from the ATF?

 

Ak-47.net's schematic and description say they count the rear trunnion, and they call it a sear..

 

http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Parts.php

 

They call the rear trunion a sear? I am a member of AK-47.net and have never seen this. The trunions (plural) count as one part as do the top and bottom handguards (when their's a top and bottom). Even if there is a schematic like you describe, it is wrong.

 

The above parts count list for the stock Saiga 308 is correct.

 

And I repeat: all of this parts count crap is unconstitutional. And we should all file a class action lawsuit based on the money we are out trying to comply with this shit. That's an actionable suit because we have been "damaged".

 

I agree with the class action lawsuit. They call the rear trunnion a trunnion, and the disconnector a sear...

[Grim42 0]

I'll support the class actions suit. Let me know if someone has a good lawyer and I'll give my part.

 

Grim

[44rdv4rk 0]

ak-47.net may call it a sear, but it's a disconnector, as a full auto has both a sear and a disconnector, and the disconnector is the part that translates to the semi's.... but i guess that's irrelevant, since both sear and disconnector are on the list of parts that they count for all firearms. (#13 and #14 on the list of 20)

 

as for the lawsuit, i'm in!!!! i think the atf ought to reimburse me for all those "compliance parts" i've had to buy.

 

farging bastages.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

The Sear is what lets go of the hammer to fire. The disconnector lets go of the hammer to hit the sear. On a regular AK the sear is integrated with the trigger and isone part. On a Saiga-308 that is also the case. On all other Saigas there are 15 parts, because while you lose one part on the P-grip you gain one on the separate trigger. Do the p-grip conversion and you're back to regular AK list.

[44rdv4rk 0]

i thought this was a sear ??

[DaGroaner 2]

Am I the only one who is a little perturbed that Pyle would sell us out of our dream for $58,000? Thanks alot man.

[Grim42 0]

Am I the only one who is a little perturbed that Pyle would sell us out of our dream for $58,000? Thanks alot man.

 

Get your facts straight. Last count it was $62,000 and rising.

[LESchwartz 9]

The trunions (plural) count as one part as do the top and bottom handguards (when their's a top and bottom).

Wrong. See: http://home.nc.rr.com/eheinze/letter.pdf -- the answer to question #2 clearly says that the rear trunion is uncounted.

[Ronswin 26]

All this conjecture about the BATF and legalities over what magazine threatens what is well and fine. Keep this mind, however, that like all U.S. Government agencies they are first and foremost a Bureaucracy! Do they really care and can they even interpret their own rules and regulations as they are now. A conversation I had with them years ago over the legality of ten round Saiga 12 magazines illustrated to me just what a group of clueless individuals make up that organization. Look how long it took them to realize AK gun kits were "illegal" with the original barrels. You can also fret over the ban of laser pulse rifles in the 40 megawatt range while your at it!

[dinzag 31]

-->

QUOTE(G O B @ Aug 11 2006, 05:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uncle Batfuck

 

[TEXASAK73 13]

god damnit,drop the the fucking case,we are getting our mags thanks to the motivated FBMG.Thanks to them we have hi cap mags for our beloved s-308 rifles.

 

Arguing on the INTERNET is like winning a race in the special Olympics,even if you win you are still fucking retarded.

 

remind me to never type and drink my spell checker wink ape shit,or is it drink and type,either wya I'm seeing christina hold pink saigas

Edited August 12, 2006 by TEXASAK73

[Reverendfranz 160]

You can also fret over the ban of laser pulse rifles in the 40 megawatt range while your at it!

 

Wait, where is the ruling on lasers? did i miss something? is this an import ruling, or us manufacture as well?

 

~hides his co2 laser.

 

Just kidding, i cant even get a full 100watts.

~Sigh.

 

Laser cannon of my dreams, where are you?

[LESchwartz 9]

Edited August 12, 2006 by LESchwartz

[44rdv4rk 0]

god damnit,drop the the fucking case,we are getting our mags thanks to the motivated FBMG.Thanks to them we have hi cap mags for our beloved s-308 rifles.

 

Arguing on the INTERNET is like winning a race in the special Olympics,even if you win you are still fucking retarded.

 

remind me to never type and drink my spell checker wink ape shit,or is it drink and type,either wya I'm seeing christina hold pink saigas

 

 

no argument, just a discussion...no need to get grumpy.

 

... and i'm a bit full of rum myself.

 

cheers! it'll be otay!

 

 

edit: and thanks for not posting the pic of the downs syndrome kid winning the race!

Edited August 12, 2006 by 44rdv4rk

[TEXASAK73 13]

yeah disregard my post,I was really hammered last night.It has been a good discussion but I do no get into the speculation debates.It seems to me a lot of over worrying about the what ifs.

Edited August 12, 2006 by TEXASAK73

[G O B 3,516]

GOD HELP ME-- I LOVE stirring up the shit!

 

But as near as I can tell I am still right 1 compliance part and -us mag (3parts) =US gun.

[PvtPyle 0]

-->

QUOTE(G O B @ Aug 12 2006, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

GOD HELP ME-- I LOVE stirring up the shit!

 

But as near as I can tell I am still right 1 compliance part and -us mag (3parts) =US gun.

 

That diagram is from AK-47.US, not ak-47. NET. I have never heard of AK-47.us before but just because they call it something does not make it correct. Especially when they are clearly wrong.

 

And todays total is just under $65,000.

[steve467 0]

First of all, let me say 922r is some seriously misguided legislation.

 

If you add a 20 round mag(or 75rd drum or whatever) to your factory stock Saiga 308 sporting rifle you are violating 922r right there. Even by the most liberal counting, a factory Saiga 308 has at least 11 parts before you add a mag.

 

When you "assemble" a Saiga 308 with enough US parts to be considered "US-made", the issue of importability goes away.

 

Let me ask CTCStrela's question another way: Since a sidefolding stock would be unimportable, will TAPCO making sidefolding stocks that could fit a Saiga cause ATF to reconsider the importability of Saigas? Of course not.

 

What a shit stirer-upper this thread is.

Edited August 13, 2006 by steve467

[jedgemon 0]

My two cents are.....

That old uncle sam knows if they pass anything that requires "US MADE" it produces a greater revenue within our country, Unlike Foreign part which is just the for seen precentage mark up. Why not pass it? I really have no problem with it except i'm always unclear on it (you hear 5, 4, 3 US Made parts, and its not us parts that matter.. etc.)......FOR GOD SAKES CLAIRIFY WHICH ONE IS IT? lol.. BUT anyways i'm sleep typing i think....

 

Also i'd like to thank everybody that has helped with the design and production of these 20 round mags, hope to see mine soon!

Edited August 13, 2006 by jedge

[LESchwartz 9]

Edited August 13, 2006 by LESchwartz

[Bvamp 604]

so you are saying that you cannot legally attach a 20 round mag to any saiga until it has parts added to it?

[G O B 3,516]

My count too. 16-2=14, mag=3 one more US part=10 DING DING DING 10 or fewer forign parts.

 

Uncle Batfuck is happy.

[LESchwartz 9]

-->

QUOTE(G O B @ Aug 13 2006, 06:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My count too. 16-2=14, mag=3 one more US part=10 DING DING DING 10 or fewer forign parts.

 

Uncle Batfuck is happy.

Ummm . . . isn't 14 - 3 = 11 . . .

[O.S.O.K. 0]

Yes, that is what he is saying - you need to replace one of the countable imported parts with a magic us part and then you can legally use the new 20 round mags.

 

And I agree that the piston is the easiest to replace if you don't want to do a pistol grip conversion.

[G O B 3,516]

Shwartz 16 parts for AK -2 pistolgrip,muzzle device=14. -3 magazine body,follower and floorplate=11

One more US part ( to replace a forign one) US gaspiston=10 forign parts DING DING magic 10 or fewer" 922r blessing. Happiness and joy in the house of Uncle Batfuck!

[Bill 0]

I have the PERFECT solution to this -we need someone to start making complete rifles in the USA or made with as few imported parts as possible to once and for all put this zombie in the ground. I am sure SOMEONE could do it for a reasonable price. Then since it is MADE IN USA all this thrashing about becomes moot! and besides,who says the agents can count right? are they using old or new math?!

Some thing to think about.........btw ,is it possible to use the hammer and disconnector from the tapco kit and retain the factory trigger or are there mods involved. I have a stock set from BRG3 about to be installed and will maybe change out the piston-same as AK47 I believe. I have to keep it otherwise stock to keep the donut eaters off my back.

[Bvamp 604]

so you need to change out parts to use ANY high cap in a saiga anything, and only one or two to use a US made high cap mag....which is what we discussed in the past....

 

right? or wrong?