Paintball vs the real thing

[Motopilot1 37]

this is going to sound stupid but i was wondering for the average person who has never been in actual combat how comperable clearing rooms and urban play is paintball to the real thing i know obviously you cant hit w/ a paintball gun what you can w/ a rifle at longer ranges thats why i am asking from an indoor point how different is it just wondering

[Bayoupiper 738]

this is going to sound stupid but i was wondering for the average person who has never been in actual combat how comperable clearing rooms and urban play is paintball to the real thing i know obviously you cant hit w/ a paintball gun what you can w/ a rifle at longer ranges thats why i am asking from an indoor point how different is it just wondering

 

 

 

I've never seen militar combat, but for me, I just can not have the same mind set as when I clear rooms for real.

I do not see how anyone can.

[6500rpm 670]

No combat experience but 15 year invested in Tourney Ball, what I can say that's positive is this. At the level we were required to play you had to learn good solid shooting skills that can help in real life. I don't know if recreational play can do the same. We were required to play/practice every other week, usually shooting about 1500 to 2000 rounds dependion on your position. Tourney ball is a lot like football with guns. You learn to communicate w/ team mates and call out position and kill counts. You learn to shoot off hand to avoid breaking cover. You learn to shoot reactively since most markers typically have a small red dot or no sight at all. You learn to locate your opposition, and get your marker set and aimed before you break cover to shoot. You learn to snap shoot-break cover, take your shot, and return quickly. I was a front player, it was my job to push as far forword as possible on the break, take cover and let my back players put down suppressive fire and call out my targets. From that point it was all about communication and snap shooting out key players. You learn about line of fire, and stacking multiple barrier layers to provide cover (multiple trees at an effective angle can create a wall). In general, from just having that gun in your hand every week shooting, a lot, you learn how to to shoot, but you have to think about what your going to do and how to do it before you react. On several occasions I've taken out multiple players on 2 on 1, and 3 on 1, situations mostly due to over-confidance on their part. (see snap shooting vs walking down an open field in a gang).

The negative as pionted out by my Cop brother, when your out, you quit. In real life, you never give up unless dead.

As for real life, other than typical distance, probably nothing. Guns are loud and shoot through walls and barriers, paintball markers do not. I feel that paintball has a lot of merits as a source of training, but the end game is a different story and you have to keep things in perspective.

 

I have this pipe dream of shooting three gun, or atleast shot gun matches, I'm too old to keep up with the young ones on the paitball fields these days, but I think at the worst, I can be fairly competitive in a new arena if I can find some place close and afford the ammo to get enough practice time in. In either case, paintball or real life, practice is the key to learning fundamentals that you need to be an effective shooter. Just my 2c.

 

FWIW, the neighbor kids have told me that recruiters are recently finding the paintball fields. Not bad for some, but for others I can only hope that they don't confuse a game with what happens in the real world unless thy're truely ready.

Edited December 3, 2007 by 6500rpm

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I feel that paintball has a lot of merits as a source of training

 

I have no training in either field, but this sentence makes a lot of sense to me.

[VanKiller 322]

I've done a litttle of the real thing and the three gun matches, very little paint ball. But anything that gets the blood pumpin and the rush , when you are in the groove, is good training. The SEALs liked it, I watched a couple practice runs where they took over a grey little boat. It was great training, really great for the young sailor who just couldn't help stickin his grape up for a look, and caught a round in the middle of the forehead at 4 ft.......Now I was EOD, liked a lot of noise with my adrenal rush......

[Motopilot1 37]

i was just asking what other opinions were because i have played a lot of paintball and heard a lot about the military actually consulting pro paintball players on instruction on snap shooting just thought it was kind of interesting just thinking if they were close there could be a lot learned from paintball tourney players very agressive style but like it was said earlier in real life you dont get a second chance

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

this is going to sound stupid but i was wondering for the average person who has never been in actual combat how comperable clearing rooms and urban play is paintball to the real thing i know obviously you cant hit w/ a paintball gun what you can w/ a rifle at longer ranges thats why i am asking from an indoor point how different is it just wondering

 

 

Stationed out of Al Taquadum, Balad and Al Asad Iraq 2x for a total of 1yr

-Operation Iraqi Freedom II & III Veteran

-Blue Diamond

-MST forward deployed 2x

 

Yes its pretty damn close, but its always a rush breaking in that door unknowing whats on the other side.

[Azrial 1,091]

You will do things in a game where you can "come back to life" that you will never do in the real world. No one will sacrifice himself to draw fire in the real world. It the real world you do not laugh when your mates get shot or let them do foolhardy things that will help them catch a bullet.

 

Sorry, I enjoy paintball, but it is just a game. It can be conducted as real training, but the above stated facts will always limit its usefulness.

 

Frankly, and with no intent to offend, I doubt that the military needed to consult with a teen-aged game player on snap shooting.

[Motopilot1 37]

AZRIAL

Frankly, and with no intent to offend, I doubt that the military needed to consult with a teen-aged game player on snap shooting.

 

your right i wouldnt think the military would waste their time either but pro tourney players are very good unless you have experienced playing speedball w/ pros its kind of hard to imagine just how fast they can snapshoot i was told that the military had done this by one of my very good friends who was at the time a pro speedball player he had no reason to make it up so i have no reason not to believe him but for all i know he was full of it thats however not my point my point was i think theres a lot that can be learned thats all

Edited December 3, 2007 by motopilot1

[Aethelbert 1]

I can see where some could use paintball as a training aid. I have alway avoided it. While some here have used it sensibly, too much of what I hear from paintballers goes 'way against my Army training. They taught us to stay concealed and the old 'one-shot-one-kill'. Now, with the newer M-16s and M-4s, I understand they triple-tap the enemy. Still a long cry from standing in full view and just blasting away.

 

My wife says I don't play games. If I must shoot, it will be to eliminate an adversary. I use the same approach to using archaic weapons such as sword or spear.

 

To me, paintball is like using one of those race/demolition/car chase computer games to learn to drive. It can help develope great hand/eye coordination but judgment on the road?

 

Like paintball? Great! Keep at it and enjoy!

[dayanx 1]

i got out of paintballing when it turned into a technotronic laser tag wannabe. Airsofting on the other hand http://www.houstonairsoft.com/ is much more focussed on realism.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

AZRIAL

Frankly, and with no intent to offend, I doubt that the military needed to consult with a teen-aged game player on snap shooting.

 

your right i wouldnt think the military would waste their time either but pro tourney players are very good unless you have experienced playing speedball w/ pros its kind of hard to imagine just how fast they can snapshoot i was told that the military had done this by one of my very good friends who was at the time a pro speedball player he had no reason to make it up so i have no reason not to believe him but for all i know he was full of it thats however not my point my point was i think theres a lot that can be learned thats all

It's true that some of the finest our military has to offer, DO USE professional paintballers and I think, airsoft as well, to train their guys in combat scenereos (sp?)

 

I have a good freind who is one of the best paintballers in the country. He's won championships and he's as good as they come.

You go play with him and his buds and you won't call it just a game for long...

 

In fact he and another guy I've met have been called down to Bragg to show some Green Berets the ropes and train their guys.

 

I would put my money on Danny up against any LEO or Military (in his field of battle) and sit back and watch with a smile....lol.

[loki0629 55]

Moto,

There's no such thing as a stupid question...only people too stupid to ask questions.

 

It's been a lot of years since I played paintball but I think it's a great tool for learning technique. And that's about it. You can learn how to pop corners, set up dominant positions, stacking, clearing...all that good stuff associated with cqb. I've even seen paintball guns made to look like M4's which goes a long way towards developing muscle memory for your weapon and I've always thought that was neat.

 

However, there is a profound difference between pulling the trigger on a toy and pulling the trigger on a weapon. People who play paintball are doing exactly that, playing. People who use it as a training tool already have a different mindset, or at least ought to. You can be the quickest, deadliest, paintball snapshooter in the world however that does you no good if you aren't used to booms that are loud enough to set your eardrums on fire or if you freeze because you realize that if you miss and your opponent doesn't, you are dead for real.

 

I'm not even going to get into the topics of boobytraps, mouseholes, or grenades....just too much info to absorb at once.

[Afrikaner 2]

I played a good bit of paintball and I've been through the real thing once or twice. While paintball can never match the angst and danger of the real thing, there is a lot to be said for muscle memory/ reflex training.

Major police forces and some militaries use paintball and versions thereof to train. I think one of the is called RAM. The SAPS in S. Africa used "submunitions". Essentially very low loads of 9mm with a rubber ball instead of FMJ projectile.

In my opinion, paintball falls in the same spot as going top the range, appleseed and 3-gun. It is just training. Anything that excersizes your body, taxes your mind in terms of tactics and works on control, is just good training.

If you want realistic training, you aon't get it - On the job training is not something I'd advise for combat.

[Twinsen 86]

I've played a lot of airsoft and a lot of paintball, and I know one striking difference. When you take it too seriously (like me, aww) you get adrenaline playing these games, and when you get hit, often you don't even know it, because you didn't feel it. I've gotten into a CQB battle at least once where after the other guy called out, I calmed down and noticed he had hit me too and couldn't say who got it first, because I had absolutely no idea at which point he hit me.

 

Now, paintball and airsoft in CQB cause bleeding and tiny welts, etc. But I'm going to have to assume that getting shot in the chest with a real gun is something you'd notice through adrenaline. Many close calls in these games just end up in two guys who have no idea who won the battle.

[drooling idiot 1]

Is it a perfect training method ? NO, but it beats the hell out of real on the job training where the learning curve is much higher.

 

paintball tries to mimic combat, play it , enjoy it , and learn what works at a fundamental level. It can't replace learning marksmanship but punching holes in still paper isn't the end-all of training either.

Anything that gets kids off the couch ,in the field , and focusing on teamwork is something I'll endorse. Adults too.

[6500rpm 670]

The more I think about this the more I respect our Mil/LEO members, I think the hardest decission or discipline you guys have is not to shoot. In the game, it's pretty simple, clean house on everything, you guys only have a spit second to make that decission.

My brother trained with the simunition refered to earlier. The one thing that they did was make you replay what you did (what did you see, where did you shoot, how many rounds, etc). Once again, not only do you have to deal with the situation at hand, but you have to be able to explain it after the fact to stay out of shit

with the civil rights crowd. A little off topic, but another reason why training is so important.

[KySoldier 2]

Frankly, and with no intent to offend, I doubt that the military needed to consult with a teen-aged game player on snap shooting.

 

That's kinda what I was thinking...I enjoy paintball, its fun and good exercise, and I think moving and shooting as squads is useful training, but I still think blanks and explosive simulators are better for clearing. It seems that is what most of the training is these days, moving, stacking, and clearing. Never used any simunition, but I doubt its used for CQB. It's got to be better than the MILES gear, never was a fan of that chunky 80s stuff. But when I hear you all say SF guys invite paintballers to instruct I feel a little fascinated and a little insulted; like our nation's best are learning from gamers.

[Afrikaner 2]

I doubt they invite them to instruct, but I do know that some forces use "simulated" battle to train....yes, the explosions and blanks make it more "realistic", but not all police departments can afford the gear.

[Afrikaner 2]

http://www.rap4.com/

 

http://www.usmc.mil/magazine/204/onLiberty.pdf

[d0lphin2 0]

I love it. I never served in the military and can not even imagine the stresses of combat soldiers. Paintball is so fast. Sometimes I can't imagine how fast your reflexes are or sense are. You can "take one for the team" and start over later. Besides the paintball/combat experience, I think it may help people see how fast they can react to something that fast without your mind overloading.

[loki0629 55]

Training happens in stages guys. If I had the budget I'd definitely incorporate the equipment to do paintball on cqb courses. You start with the basics, which can be done without weapons and proceed with varying degrees of intensity all the way up to tire rooms and live ammo. Paintballs would fall somewhere in the middle stages, where you can get visual feedback of your shots, just like you would if you actually shot someone at close range.

 

I'd have no problem learning from someone (gamer or not) if they had something worth learning. Gamers may actually have had more time to develop something new or relevant because it's cheaper to shoot paintballs than it is to shoot ammo.

 

Anyway just my $.02

[NataSS Inc 0]

I am new here so i dont want to spout off at the mouth and make a bad name for myself. But I have seen both sides of the coin. Paintball, if done in the right environment can be fun as well as a good educational tool for CQB as well as small unit tactics. I have watched a few of those paintball tourneys and they look like fun but when the paint balls turn into small objects coming from a lead delivery system.........The rules change.

 

And speaking of paintball.....this is one of my favorite videos. I cant help laughing out loud every time I watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddMowxKchko

 

However, nothing can ever replace the fear/excitement, adrenaline, screams, etc. going on around you like the real deal. After my first "experience" and the adrenaline got out of my system........I threw up on myself. Then again I was only an 18yo LCPL in the Corps.

[Cryptkeeper 0]

best part of paintball for trainning purposes is defense you learn how not to get shot or at least increase your chance of not getting shot by trainning in crossfire,cover & concealment,angles,teamwork...ect. you can see what works what doesnt. tournement ball is more of spray and pray not much skill. its not like woodsball.strong communication/team work is the most important skill on the field for any team

 

Edited December 4, 2007 by Cryptkeeper

[Motopilot1 37]

best part of paintball for trainning purposes is defense you learn how not to get shot or at least increase your chance of not getting shot by trainning in crossfire,cover & concealment,angles,teamwork...ect. you can see what works what doesnt. tournement ball is more of spray and pray not much skill. its not like woodsball.

 

Not to offend but you could not be farther from the truth tourney play is all about angles speed and line of fire. I have played tourney ball and woods ball and let me tell ya when you walk off of the tourney field and walk into the woods you really do clean house its more that tourney play requires you to be more agressive and when you bring that to where people are hiding and staying in one place people dont know what to do. basically what im saying is moving is key and educated movements are what you learn while playing speedball when you take that the the woodsball field they dot stand a chance

[Cryptkeeper 0]

i have also and i believe it to be the other way around granted most woodsball players are amatures but if you get a good strong team of woodsballers from the old school its a differnt story.

[Motopilot1 37]

i have also and i believe it to be the other way around granted most woodsball players are amatures but if you get a good strong team of woodsballers from the old school its a differnt story.

 

i do have to agree there one good sniper can elimiminate a whole team

[Cryptkeeper 0]

i have also and i believe it to be the other way around granted most woodsball players are amatures but if you get a good strong team of woodsballers from the old school its a differnt story.

 

i do have to agree there one good sniper can elimiminate a whole team

 

 

snippers ? in paintball? i know the 1 video showed a sniper but they really cant be use to any great effect in paintball wish they could be but the range limit kills a sniper. in the video is about the best use of a sniper, to get their attention

Edited December 4, 2007 by Cryptkeeper

[Motopilot1 37]

i have also and i believe it to be the other way around granted most woodsball players are amatures but if you get a good strong team of woodsballers from the old school its a differnt story.

 

i do have to agree there one good sniper can elimiminate a whole team

 

 

snippers ? in paintball? i know the 1 video showed a sniper but they really cant be use to any great effect in paintball wish they could be but the range limit kills a sniper. in the video is about the best use of a sniper, to get their attention

 

YES they can you just have to bend the rules a little to be affective get a phantom pump and set the velocity up around 380-400fps w/ hpa and you can get some accurate distance and it is consistant. dont believe me try it

[Motopilot1 37]

also you dont have to be far away to "snipe' somebody you need to be able to get close w/o them knowing your there hence the sniper part