The Return of the Girly Men

[DolphinS 0]

[Gaddis 1,689]

What a bitter, angry, bull dyke we have here.

 

One question though? Do girly men hold their farts in until in a private setting like women do now too?

 

I feel my penis start to shrivel up and disappear just reading this.

[Bayoupiper 738]

I was in line at Walmart behind two girly men a couple of days ago.

One of them commented on the other being so "emotional in public".

Then they realized I was behind them and they looked at me with this shocked, embarrassed look.

I asked them if either of them really had a penis?

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I was in line at Walmart behind two girly men a couple of days ago.

One of them commented on the other being so "emotional in public".

Then they realized I was behind them and they looked at me with this shocked, embarrassed look.

I asked them if either of them really had a penis?

I'de like to personaly say thank you for picking on those weaker than you, we can only hope they grow a skin.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

I think there is a lot of sarcasm in this thread that people are missing.

[superA 289]

Obama gonna tax testosterone. Really though, what's wrong with a man crying? I don't mean all the damn time over trivial matters, that's just an idiot, man or woman. What's wrong with turning the other cheek? Talking things out is almost always a better option than violence, if the aggressor leaves room for talk. The thing is, there is wisdom in and room for the entire spectrum. Either side overdone is waist. If someone acts like even a slight display of what they would consider to be unmanly behavior is totally wrong than they are either not being honest with themselves or they are trying to hide something. Really why would we ever give a fuck if another man wants to paint his fingernails? Why has that been deemed girly and tattoos remain manly or tough? They are both ways for a man to adorn himself with something that he feels will boost his physical appearance. Just my opinion though.

[chevymann 13]

The outcome of the election made me want to cry....

 

Just not tears of joy...

[superA 289]

The outcome of the election made me want to cry....

 

Just not tears of joy...

 

 

 

 

 

See perfect example of justified weeping.

[Bayoupiper 738]

I'de like to personaly say thank you for picking on those weaker than you, we can only hope they grow a skin.

 

 

 

Sure...............................

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Obama gonna tax testosterone. Really though, what's wrong with a man crying? I don't mean all the damn time over trivial matters, that's just an idiot, man or woman. What's wrong with turning the other cheek? Talking things out is almost always a better option than violence, if the aggressor leaves room for talk. The thing is, there is wisdom in and room for the entire spectrum. Either side overdone is waist. If someone acts like even a slight display of what they would consider to be unmanly behavior is totally wrong than they are either not being honest with themselves or they are trying to hide something. Really why would we ever give a fuck if another man wants to paint his fingernails? Why has that been deemed girly and tattoos remain manly or tough? They are both ways for a man to adorn himself with something that he feels will boost his physical appearance. Just my opinion though.

 

Tatoo's arn't deemed manly anymore, if that were the case we wouldn't have wonderful terms like the "tramp stamp". Tatoos are just art anymore, a freedom of expression that can have personal, social, or political meaning(or none at all!)

 

that said unless the person is outright gender bending becaws he's gay, or to thumb the eye of society, nail painting has no meaning like a tatoo.

[superA 289]

Obama gonna tax testosterone. Really though, what's wrong with a man crying? I don't mean all the damn time over trivial matters, that's just an idiot, man or woman. What's wrong with turning the other cheek? Talking things out is almost always a better option than violence, if the aggressor leaves room for talk. The thing is, there is wisdom in and room for the entire spectrum. Either side overdone is waist. If someone acts like even a slight display of what they would consider to be unmanly behavior is totally wrong than they are either not being honest with themselves or they are trying to hide something. Really why would we ever give a fuck if another man wants to paint his fingernails? Why has that been deemed girly and tattoos remain manly or tough? They are both ways for a man to adorn himself with something that he feels will boost his physical appearance. Just my opinion though.

 

Tatoo's arn't deemed manly anymore, if that were the case we wouldn't have wonderful terms like the "tramp stamp". Tatoos are just art anymore, a freedom of expression that can have personal, social, or political meaning(or none at all!)

 

 

I said manly or tough. And yes they are. Just because women get tattoos doesn't mean that a good number of men don't get tattoos because they think it looks tough. Many of the tattoos are meant to be very violent, scary, intimidating, etc., you can tell by the picture.

 

 

that said unless the person is outright gender bending becaws he's gay, or to thumb the eye of society, nail painting has no meaning like a tatoo.

 

 

 

 

How do you know what anything means to anybody besides yourself. Colors don't tell near the story that a picture or words does. You are using absolutes in things we can only speculate on. But that's just my thoughts on it and we may just disagree and that's cool with me.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I said manly or tough. And yes they are. Just because women get tattoos doesn't mean that a good number of men don't get tattoos because they think it looks tough. Many of the tattoos are meant to be very violent, scary, intimidating, etc., you can tell by the picture.

 

 

How do you know what anything means to anybody besides yourself. Colors don't tell near the story that a picture or words does. You are using absolutes in things we can only speculate on. But that's just my thoughts on it and we may just disagree and that's cool with me.

 

I've got a small collection of zombies on my back(I like horror movies and have had re-ocurring nightmares about being eaten by them scince 7). A tribal dragon on my right arm- no meaning, just liked how it looked, And The letters DNR on my chest(Its a abreviation of a medical term. I have very strong beliefs in the right to live, and the right to die.)

 

someone could look at those and take them all wrong very quickly. Maybe some people do think that way, but i don't see a tatoo as being any more scary than a tee shirt with a decal.

 

And by all means yes disagree with me, its still america right?

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I've got a small collection of zombies on my back.........And The letters DNR on my chest

 

You actually got DNR tatted on your chest? That's different, but I like it .

 

I've yet to get any tattoos yet. I don't want to be one of those people that gets it "for the hell of it". Not that I have a problem with that, it's not my skin. I just haven't decided on what I want permanently marked into my skin yet.

 

My sister on the other hand, she's an ink junkie! She just had a bunch of stuff added to the one on her wrist/forearm, because she said she needed some "ink therapy", as she calls it.

 

 

 

Question about that DNR on your chest: Was it mainly for humor? Because I thought papers needed to be signed and whatnot, for medics to actually not resuscitate someone, no?

[superA 289]

I said manly or tough. And yes they are. Just because women get tattoos doesn't mean that a good number of men don't get tattoos because they think it looks tough. Many of the tattoos are meant to be very violent, scary, intimidating, etc., you can tell by the picture.

 

 

How do you know what anything means to anybody besides yourself. Colors don't tell near the story that a picture or words does. You are using absolutes in things we can only speculate on. But that's just my thoughts on it and we may just disagree and that's cool with me.

 

I've got a small collection of zombies on my back(I like horror movies and have had re-ocurring nightmares about being eaten by them scince 7). A tribal dragon on my right arm- no meaning, just liked how it looked, And The letters DNR on my chest(Its a abreviation of a medical term. I have very strong beliefs in the right to live, and the right to die.)

 

someone could look at those and take them all wrong very quickly. Maybe some people do think that way, but i don't see a tatoo as being any more scary than a tee shirt with a decal.

 

And by all means yes disagree with me, its still america right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's right brother. Land of the free. Cracks me up when people get pissed off over a difference of opinion.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Question about that DNR on your chest: Was it mainly for humor? Because I thought papers needed to be signed and whatnot, for medics to actually not resuscitate someone, no?

 

Humor, no. But there isn't any way to make the tat a legal document. I've looked into it. Even if i got the notory stamp branded next to it the docs would still take the paddles to me. And yeah theres the paperwork but they arn't going to check your wallet befor doing it either. Really about the only time it can come into play is once your in the ICU, at which point, either the paperwork can come into play, or the fact that whoever is around to make the choice for me, knows pretty well how i stand.

 

(we're getting side-tracked BTW, didn't mean to hijack the thread)

[avnate 335]

This whole metrosexual thing make me want to go roll around in the dirt and wipe my ass with tree bark.

 

Seriously, where are our hero's of yesterday? The men who took a stand and you could look up to. The closet thing I remember in recent times was General Honore, a man who gave orders, demanded respect and expected no less from his soldiers than he was willing to give of himself . Told a reporter during Katrina "Don't get stuck on stupid". Where are these men? My grandfather was a great man, he showed two emotions in public, content and discontent. If he cried it was at a funeral or a great tragedy but never outside of that. He never hugged another man, but rather, gave a firm handshake and a smile with some kind words. He never discussed personal hygiene in public and was always well groomed as all men were raised in his time.

 

Society has abandoned masculinity in favor of a asexual culture. No way am I shaving or waxing my ass for a bunch of girly asshats. If you wanna display your emotions in public then be prepared for me to express my freedom of speech and call you a Pu$$y.

 

I for one am taking a stand, I am PRO RETROSEXUAL!

[G O B 3,516]

I am a MAN. No retrosexual,metrosexual,none of it.

I was raised by a father and a grandfather who were MEN. No cologne, no polyester suits, just a handshake like a vise, a will of iron and known for keeping their word, taking care of buisness - and not being anyone that anyone else would feel safe trying to push around.

[avnate 335]

Just so we are clear........

 

retrosexual

 

n. A man with an undeveloped aesthetic sense who spends as little time and money as possible on his appearance and lifestyle.

 

A retrosexual is simply someone who doesn't know the difference between teal and aqua, and frankly couldn't give a damn.

 

 

 

The Code:

 

A Retrosexual man, no matter what the woman insists, PAYS FOR THE DATE.

 

A Retrosexual man opens doors for a lady. Even for the ones that only loosely fit that term because they are biologically female.

 

A Retrosexual DEALS with IT. Be it a flat tire, break-in into your home, or a natural disaster, you DEAL WITH IT.

 

A Retrosexual not only eats red meat; he often kills it himself.

 

A Retrosexual doesn't worry about living to be 90. It's not how long you live, but how well. If you're 90 years old and still reading,learning, growing and can manage a drink now and again, I salute you. If you are still having sex with your wife, you are a legend.

 

A Retrosexual does not use more hair or skin products than a woman. Women have several supermarket aisles of stuff. Retrosexuals need an endcap (possibly two endcaps if you include shaving goods.)

 

A Retrosexual does not dress in clothes from Hot Topic or Abercrombie when he's 30 years old.

 

A Retrosexual should know how to properly kill stuff (or people) if need be. This falls under the "Dealing with IT" portion of The Code.

 

A Retrosexual watches no TV show with "Queer" or "Queen" in the title.

 

A Retrosexual does not let neighbors screw up rooms in his house on national TV.

 

A Retrosexual should not give up excessive amounts of manliness for women. Some is inevitable, but major reinvention of yourself will only lead to you becoming a frou-frou, and in the long run, she ain't worth it.

 

A Retrosexual is allowed to seek professional help for major mental stress such as drug/alcohol addiction, death of your entire family in a freak tree chipper accident, favorite sports team being moved to a different city, favorite bird dog expiring, etc. You are NOT allowed to see a shrink because Daddy didn't pay you enough attention. Daddy was busy DEALING WITH IT, and, when you screwed up, he DEALT with you.

 

A Retrosexual will have at least one outfit in his wardrobe designed to conceal himself from prey.

 

A Retrosexual knows how to tie a Windsor or half Windsor knot when wearing a tie -- and ONLY a Windsor style knot.

 

A Retrosexual should have at least one good wound that he can brag about.

 

A Retrosexual knows how to use a basic set of tools. If you can't hammer a nail, or drill a hole straight, practice in secret until you can -- or be rightfully ridiculed for the wuss you be.

 

A Retrosexual knows that owning a gun is not a sign that you are riddled with fear, guns are TOOLS and are often essential to DEAL WITH IT. Plus, it's just plain fun to fire one off in the direction of those people or things that just need a little "wakin' up."

 

Crying: There are very few reasons that a Retrosexual may cry, and none of them have to do with TV commercials, movies, or soap operas. Sports teams are sometimes a reason to cry, but the preferred method of release is swearing or throwing the remote control. Some reasons a Retrosexual can cry include (but are not limited to) death of a loved one, death of a good bird dog, loss of a major body part, or loss of major body part on your Ford truck or Jeep.

 

When a Retrosexual is on a crowded bus and or a commuter train, and a pregnant woman, heck, any woman gets on, that Retrosexual stands up and offers his seat to that woman, then looks around at the other so-called men still in their seats with a disgusted "you low-life" look on his face.

 

A Retrosexual knows how to say the Pledge properly, and with the correct emphasis and pronunciation. He also knows the words to the Star Spangled Banner

 

A Retrosexual will have hobbies and habits his wife and mother do not understand, but that are essential to his manliness, in that they offset the acceptable manliness decline he suffers when married, engaged or in a serious healthy relationship, e.g., hunting, fishing, boxing, shot putting, shooting, cigars, car maintenance, or occasional drink.

 

A Retrosexual knows how to sharpen his own knives and kitchen utensils.

 

A Retrosexual man can drive in snow (heck, a blizzard) without sliding all over or driving under 20 mph, without anxiety, and without high-centering his vehicle in a snow bank.

 

A Retrosexual man can chop down a tree and make it land where he wants. Wherever it lands is where he darned well wanted it to land. Except on his truck --that would happen only because of a "force of nature," and then the retrosexual man's options are to Cry, or to DEAL WITH IT, or do both.

 

A Retrosexual will give up his seat on a bus to not only any woman but any elderly person or person in military dress (except 2nd Lt's). NOTE: The person in military dress may turn down the offer but the Retrosexual man will ALWAYS make the offer to them and thank them for serving their country.

 

A Retrosexual man doesn't need a contract -- a handshake is good enough. He will always stand by his word even if circumstances change or the other person deceived him.

 

A Retrosexual man doesn't immediately look to sue someone when he does something stupid and hurts himself. We understand that sometimes in the process of doing things we get hurt and we just DEAL WITH IT!

 

This is the code of ethics for the Retrosexual man.

[Vultite 57]

cry? shit, i died a little inside after the election, but nutting to cry about, was too busy ordering things to cry hehehe, but i do agree that the enemy is keeping a close eye on this.....

[Sunset_Va 2]

I read this same article on a blog, thanks to our "enlightened" teachers (mostly women) in elementary and high schools and colleges browbeating boys for being boys and strong masculine feelings, now we have some screwed up (males) (men?). The damage these socialists are doing is terrible. This "enuching" of men, started years ago, and I wonder if all those "newly enlightened" males...(notice I didn't say Men) would even protect themselves if they got attacked. The average (not this forum readers) young male now doesnt have the "fight" to do things.

 

You want to be in a life or death situation with some one that breaks down and cries or fights like hell?

 

Some may say that article is silly, but to me its something I have been seeing in this "new society" for years.

Edited November 26, 2008 by Sunset_Va

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I read this same article on a blog, thanks to our "enlightened" teachers (mostly women) in elementary and high schools and colleges browbeating boys for being boys and strong masculine feelings, now we have some screwed up (males) (men?). The damage these socialists are doing is terrible. This "enuching" of men, started years ago, and I wonder if all those "newly enlightened" males...(notice I didn't say Men) would even protect themselves if they got attacked. The average (not this forum readers) young male now doesnt have the "fight" to do things.

 

You want to be in a life or death situation with some one that breaks down and cries or fights like hell?

 

Some may say that article is silly, but to me its something I have been seeing in this "new society" for years.

Yeap, and mothers against marines make our military softer too.

 

My platoon Sgt had a saying whenever he got done dealing with someones coddled kid who joined the military and we were expected to undo 17 years of what they started.

 

he'd shake his head and say "some peoples fucking kids."

[chuvak 9]

Obama gonna tax testosterone. Really though, what's wrong with a man crying? I don't mean all the damn time over trivial matters, that's just an idiot, man or woman. What's wrong with turning the other cheek? Talking things out is almost always a better option than violence, if the aggressor leaves room for talk. The thing is, there is wisdom in and room for the entire spectrum. Either side overdone is waist. If someone acts like even a slight display of what they would consider to be unmanly behavior is totally wrong than they are either not being honest with themselves or they are trying to hide something. Really why would we ever give a fuck if another man wants to paint his fingernails? Why has that been deemed girly and tattoos remain manly or tough? They are both ways for a man to adorn himself with something that he feels will boost his physical appearance. Just my opinion though.

 

I think most of the guys on this forum would agree with most of the details of your relatively-balanced stance on the issue of males expressing emotions. I also think you miss the larger point when arguing for an accommodating, middle-of-the-road, can't-we-all-just-get-along approach to the subject.

 

When we live in a society that is overwhelmingly "overdone" in one direction, I think it's perfectly appropriate to plant your feet firmly at the other "overdone" extreme and get confrontational about it. Whether you're doing it as a kind of social protest in hopes of enacting some change, as an attempt at providing a counter-balance to society's input for the sake of your kids, or purely out of spite, I think that's a perfectly justified response. When society pulls so strongly to one extreme, anyone who would otherwise want to walk the middle-ground is pretty much forced to lean farther in the opposite direction than they would if unprovoked.

 

I'm not ashamed of my emotions, I value being sensitive to folks around me, I have experience with turning the other cheek in more than theory, and I consider it a virtue to be able to reach democratic solutions to conflicts of interests by discussing things and making compromises. But I'm fed up with living in a society that ridicules any expression of manliness as macho posturing.

 

In the modern American psyche, there are only two kinds of men: sensitive-new-age-guys (it's ok not to have arrived at the goal, as long as you're trying) and grown-up Rambo-wannabe boys whose psychological development presumably never made it past 8th grade. No middle ground. Anyone demonstrating the slightest measure of any traditional male virtue is immediately looked down on as the second type. And by "traditional male virtue" I'm talking about things that almost every society in recorded human history has recognized as "relative absolutes" in the gender dichotomy. Sure, there are women who have them and men who lack them. But those are exceptions. The existence of exceptions doesn't nullify general rules. Your willingness to voice what you must have known would be an unpopular viewpoint on a forum like this is a perfect example of male virtue: it shows you've got some balls. Guys tend to be like that more than gals. And it's not just social conditioning that makes them that way.

 

It is often a man's rightful duty in life to suck it up and refuse to let his emotions express themselves for any one of numerous reasons, especially for the sake of others. It is often a man's rightful role in life to coldly ignore the interests of certain others and effectively bulldoze them in pursuit of with what he believes is best. I would be inclined to suspect that any man who has never had a balls-to-the-wall, kick-this-guys-teeth-in brawl is sorely lacking in purpose and commitment to anything worthwhile in his life. The fight (or it's absence) may not even be related to anything particularly purposeful, but it shows something about the character of a man. And I would contend that a man is no man at all who hasn't found some sphere in life in which he is leader -- someone capable of making quick decisions based on insufficient evidence, without discussion, and without apology. Our society is a novelty in human history, in that it has abandoned any appreciation for these elements of what has always been the traditional male role. And yes, I say that in full awareness that the Amazons were likely much more than a myth (actually, I studied and excavated them for years). These are necessary roles for a functioning society, and men are simply better at them than women. I'm not saying the worst of men will always still be better at these roles than the best of women. But I am saying that there is enough of a tendency here to make the generalization worthwhile. That's why the idea of "traditional male virtues" can be viewed as a relative absolute: for all practical purposes, only a philosopher would argue that it's all relative, and even he would go home after the argument and live as if things weren't so relative after all. It seems like the best approach stupid America could come up with in attempting to "liberate" its women was to encourage them to develop these traditionally male characteristics and train its men to cultivate the traditional female virtues. Sorry, but women generally do a piss-poor job of the one, and men generally do a piss-poor job of the other. Thus the protest against the Return of the Girly Men.

 

If you're inclined to read, I'd recommend Robert Bly's IRON JOHN. He's a bow-tie wearing, PBS hosting, dyed-in-the-wool liberal scholar who somehow recognizes just about everything I've written here and laments it. Don't know what happened to his career after he published the book, but I bet he doesn't host on PBS anymore. He claims that America's success in virtually outlawing traditional masculinity within this last half-century is unprecedented in the history of civilization and doesn't bode well for our longevity. Interestingly, he also claims that even the modern career-feminist types and girly-men who come to him for group counseling (sort-of like the modernist equivalent of going to church) overwhelmingly hate the absence of traditional male virtue in America. I found it an interesting read. The one positive thing I saw come out of 9/11 was a very decisive shift in America's appreciation for The Protector. Firemen, LE, and soldiers finally started getting some of the credit they've always been due.

 

Hope this doesn't come across like a personal attack. No such thing intended. If you weren't respectful & civil in your posts I wouldn't have bothered engaging in the conversation. This is not an attempt at verbally kicking your teeth in. Thanks for livening up what was already a good thread.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I am a MAN. No retrosexual,metrosexual,none of it.......No cologne

 

There's nothing wrong with smelling nice for the ladies .

[superA 289]

Obama gonna tax testosterone. Really though, what's wrong with a man crying? I don't mean all the damn time over trivial matters, that's just an idiot, man or woman. What's wrong with turning the other cheek? Talking things out is almost always a better option than violence, if the aggressor leaves room for talk. The thing is, there is wisdom in and room for the entire spectrum. Either side overdone is waist. If someone acts like even a slight display of what they would consider to be unmanly behavior is totally wrong than they are either not being honest with themselves or they are trying to hide something. Really why would we ever give a fuck if another man wants to paint his fingernails? Why has that been deemed girly and tattoos remain manly or tough? They are both ways for a man to adorn himself with something that he feels will boost his physical appearance. Just my opinion though.

 

I think most of the guys on this forum would agree with most of the details of your relatively-balanced stance on the issue of males expressing emotions. I also think you miss the larger point when arguing for an accommodating, middle-of-the-road, can't-we-all-just-get-along approach to the subject.

 

When we live in a society that is overwhelmingly "overdone" in one direction, I think it's perfectly appropriate to plant your feet firmly at the other "overdone" extreme and get confrontational about it. Whether you're doing it as a kind of social protest in hopes of enacting some change, as an attempt at providing a counter-balance to society's input for the sake of your kids, or purely out of spite, I think that's a perfectly justified response. When society pulls so strongly to one extreme, anyone who would otherwise want to walk the middle-ground is pretty much forced to lean farther in the opposite direction than they would if unprovoked.

 

 

 

Well I wasn't really advocating a "can't we all get along" stance. I did say that people who tend to cry all the time over trivial matters are idiots, man or woman. This can also apply to any facets of life. I do disagree about the being forced to lean one way or the other. I believe we all have it in us to walk whatever line we feel is wisest and I do agree with speaking up about things that you find repulsive if anything to set what you consider to be a fine example for your children or like you said, just out of spite. I certainly don't condone people not speaking out against the things they disagree with. If we don't nothing ever gets solved, even if it is only an answer in your head on where you stand on a certain issue. I think this can lead to a fine measure of happiness.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not ashamed of my emotions, I value being sensitive to folks around me, I have experience with turning the other cheek in more than theory, and I consider it a virtue to be able to reach democratic solutions to conflicts of interests by discussing things and making compromises. But I'm fed up with living in a society that ridicules any expression of manliness as macho posturing.

 

In the modern American psyche, there are only two kinds of men: sensitive-new-age-guys (it's ok not to have arrived at the goal, as long as you're trying) and grown-up Rambo-wannabe boys whose psychological development presumably never made it past 8th grade. No middle ground. Anyone demonstrating the slightest measure of any traditional male virtue is immediately looked down on as the second type. And by "traditional male virtue" I'm talking about things that almost every society in recorded human history has recognized as "relative absolutes" in the gender dichotomy. Sure, there are women who have them and men who lack them. But those are exceptions. The existence of exceptions doesn't nullify general rules. Your willingness to voice what you must have known would be an unpopular viewpoint on a forum like this is a perfect example of male virtue: it shows you've got some balls. Guys tend to be like that more than gals. And it's not just social conditioning that makes them that way.

 

 

 

 

I do think alot of this is just the media trying to push a larger agenda to make us if anything, indecisive. That being said, I don't really know many guys like that. Most men I know are neither overly macho nor little girls. They are real men. I think the apparent saturation of this male/female confusion is mainly a sick bunch of people not understanding that a real man is sensitive to the plight of others. The way I look at it, I will be who I am, people will see my example and actions and not mistake it for anything else and I won't spend too much time trying to convince an idiot that he or she is wrong. They will find out in their own time through trial and error. Or they may die a moron.

 

 

 

It is often a man's rightful duty in life to suck it up and refuse to let his emotions express themselves for any one of numerous reasons, especially for the sake of others. It is often a man's rightful role in life to coldly ignore the interests of certain others and effectively bulldoze them in pursuit of with what he believes is best. I would be inclined to suspect that any man who has never had a balls-to-the-wall, kick-this-guys-teeth-in brawl is sorely lacking in purpose and commitment to anything worthwhile in his life. The fight (or it's absence) may not even be related to anything particularly purposeful, but it shows something about the character of a man. And I would contend that a man is no man at all who hasn't found some sphere in life in which he is leader -- someone capable of making quick decisions based on insufficient evidence, without discussion, and without apology. Our society is a novelty in human history, in that it has abandoned any appreciation for these elements of what has always been the traditional male role. And yes, I say that in full awareness that the Amazons were likely much more than a myth (actually, I studied and excavated them for years). These are necessary roles for a functioning society, and men are simply better at them than women. I'm not saying the worst of men will always still be better at these roles than the best of women. But I am saying that there is enough of a tendency here to make the generalization worthwhile. That's why the idea of "traditional male virtues" can be viewed as a relative absolute: for all practical purposes, only a philosopher would argue that it's all relative, and even he would go home after the argument and live as if things weren't so relative after all. It seems like the best approach stupid America could come up with in attempting to "liberate" its women was to encourage them to develop these traditionally male characteristics and train its men to cultivate the traditional female virtues. Sorry, but women generally do a piss-poor job of the one, and men generally do a piss-poor job of the other. Thus the protest against the Return of the Girly Men.

 

 

 

 

I agree with pretty much everything you say here. When push comes to shove ignoring the problem is not a viable option for a true man or woman. Especially when they have a family to think about. And yes fighting is fun. I'll admit I'm a cave man when it comes to the fighting. I don't feel like it's usually the best option but hell, sometimes guys just like to fight. Alot of times it is basically agreed on that this is the way two males want to resolve their feelings on a subject. It may not solve the problem but it sure get's the shit out of your system and usually leads to a mutual respect between the two fighting. It does say something about character, you are absolutely right about that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're inclined to read, I'd recommend Robert Bly's IRON JOHN. He's a bow-tie wearing, PBS hosting, dyed-in-the-wool liberal scholar who somehow recognizes just about everything I've written here and laments it. Don't know what happened to his career after he published the book, but I bet he doesn't host on PBS anymore. He claims that America's success in virtually outlawing traditional masculinity within this last half-century is unprecedented in the history of civilization and doesn't bode well for our longevity. Interestingly, he also claims that even the modern career-feminist types and girly-men who come to him for group counseling (sort-of like the modernist equivalent of going to church) overwhelmingly hate the absence of traditional male virtue in America. I found it an interesting read. The one positive thing I saw come out of 9/11 was a very decisive shift in America's appreciation for The Protector. Firemen, LE, and soldiers finally started getting some of the credit they've always been due.

 

 

 

 

I'll take a look at it. I do believe as I stated before that this is being used as a tactic against us so that future generations will have what I call "flinch time", where we will even debate in our own minds whether or not defending ourselves against an intruder in our home is "the right thing to do." We must cut down on flinch time and teach our children the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope this doesn't come across like a personal attack. No such thing intended. If you weren't respectful & civil in your posts I wouldn't have bothered engaging in the conversation. This is not an attempt at verbally kicking your teeth in. Thanks for livening up what was already a good thread.

 

 

 

 

 

Not at all. I find you opinions valuable and interesting. And as you see we agree on most things. We are all brothers and we are all here out of a common purpose and desire. My biggest deal on these issues is to try and focus on a persons actions and not really how they adorn themselves before I decide anything about them.I don't really think it's cool for a man to paint his nails or wear earrings, but I will try and not allow myself to judge a person based on their physical

appearance. I don't understand it but if they are a good person that's enough for me. So what line of work are you in that led you to excavating the remains of Amazon's? That sounds like a real treat.

Edited November 26, 2008 by superA

[superA 289]

I am a MAN. No retrosexual,metrosexual,none of it.......No cologne

 

There's nothing wrong with smelling nice for the ladies .

 

 

 

 

 

I will admit to allowing a girl to put streaks in my hair when I was a young teen in pursuit of the almighty hole.

[Bayoupiper 738]

I will admit to allowing a girl to put streaks in my hair when I was a young teen in pursuit of the almighty hole.

 

 

I think we've all done unbelievable things in the "Chase For The Hole".

 

 

Well, except for metrosexuals.

They're just gays who haven't come out yet.

[superA 289]

"Chase for the hole", sounds like an action movie.

[Racer 27 37]

I am a MAN. No retrosexual,metrosexual,none of it.......No cologne

 

There's nothing wrong with smelling nice for the ladies .

 

 

 

 

 

I will admit to allowing a girl to put streaks in my hair when I was a young teen in pursuit of the almighty hole.

 

What kind of "streaks" were they? Is it the kind that Gaddis likes?

[superA 289]

I am a MAN. No retrosexual,metrosexual,none of it.......No cologne

 

There's nothing wrong with smelling nice for the ladies .

 

 

 

 

 

I will admit to allowing a girl to put streaks in my hair when I was a young teen in pursuit of the almighty hole.

 

What kind of "streaks" were they? Is it the kind that Gaddis likes?

 

 

 

 

 

I don't remember and I don't know who or what Gaddis is but it worked.

[Gaddis 1,689]

I am a MAN. No retrosexual,metrosexual,none of it.......No cologne

 

There's nothing wrong with smelling nice for the ladies .

 

 

 

 

 

I will admit to allowing a girl to put streaks in my hair when I was a young teen in pursuit of the almighty hole.

 

What kind of "streaks" were they? Is it the kind that Gaddis likes?

 

I prefer my women to have clean smelling, slightly pink touch holes, thank you.

 

The flushable wet wipes can be found in the cosmetic aisle, nasty bitch.