TPABA 0 Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 AK's, like the AK47, can shoot under water. Can the saiga-12 shoot under water? I'm also wondering how well the original sights shoot. It's not that bad is it? It can change elevation... I wonder how well they work out once you get used to them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 I would think it could shoot underwater. I have the notch sight and can shoot clay pigeons with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 IMO, the sights are the weakest link of this shotgun. I had a 20ga(fixed sights) that POI = POA, but then I have a 12ga(adjustable sights) where I adjusted all the way and it was shooting 6 inches low AT 15 YARDS! I tried a few things. If I don't sell it, I'll likely spring for the aftermarket sights that you can get from several places. My 12C (fixed sights) had POA ~ POI (close enough). But now I have a Kobra on it and that fixes all issues! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoeJoe 0 Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 I admire a brave Man! Firing a weapon under water? AK47 or Saiga? I don't think so, but seriously if you do try it, hook up a long piece of string or wire to pull the trigger because there will be an explosion! Water is a barrel obstruction, same o same o as a bullet lodged in the barrel. I know you probably would never do it, but some one reading it might. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter78 1 Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Why would you need to shoot underwater? sharks? get a bangstick, shoot a rifle underwater and you might kill what your aiming at as well as yourself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 (edited) Underwater weapons are designed JUST for that purpose. The russian and american special forces have weapons of that type. They are NOT the same as normal weapons. I have heard of Viet Cong tying their AK to their foot while working in rice paddys. HOWEVER that does NOT include the magazine! Military ammo is usually sealed with a little asphaltium (tar) to seal out moisture-it is by no means 'water PROOF'. G O B Edited January 28, 2005 by G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 I have seen it done on homemade videos "Destroying the myths" I think might have been one of them. Where a guy will take a bunch of rifles and ammo and try out all the stuff that people say they "heard" could be done. Like shooting tracer rounds through a vehicle gas tank. And shooting up kevlar at different distances. The one I saw had the rifle in a kiddy pool with a slip noose tied around the trigger and guard. The guy pulling the string hid behind a green dumpster. Oh it fired! The AK fired itself right out of the pool after about 5 fa rounds! The M16 fired one shot but jammed up on the half ejected shell caseing. By the time 6 rifles had been tested (mostly fa's) the kiddy pool was so duct taped up that the guy started useing a 55 gal. drum for the pistol tests. Have any of you other guys seen this video? Where can I buy it? I dont remember any of the rifles or handguns backfireing, mostly they all got caught up on the ejection process. The AK was the only one that flung the case far enough away to keep cycling. They also did the bashing against a tree test with the rifle loaded. But I cant recall if they did any shotgun testing. I think there was a short thing on phospherous rounds or something. Man, it was a long time ago that I saw a few of those movies, but if anybody knows who might still distribute them please let me know, I would love to see them again as an adult! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TPABA 0 Posted January 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Kysoldier - by notch sight, do you mean the regular wheel adjustable sight over the gas chamber? That's what came with mine. It looks like a short little rail with a little brass bead at the outer end... I think I may have to just get used to it. Anyone experience any problems with it? Three points of aim is all you really need... the back (V), the front (bead), and the target (where you're shooting). Anyone remember Leathel Weapon 4? In the end Mel Gibson shoots Jet Li with an AK47 under water... unloads that thing, full auto, into Jet Li's torso. I know that an AK47 - 7.62 x 39 - can shoot under water and it can also penetrate through the bottom portion of a rail (railroad tracks). I'm wondering if the saiga-12 can shoot under water also... it's not like I would try, but it would be nice to know if it could or couldn't. PS. It's not very nice to answer a question with a question; that's an old jewish habit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 do you mean the regular wheel adjustable sight over the gas chamber? That's what came with mine. I'm talking about the handgun style sights, not the rail. When you say adjustable wheel it makes me think of HK sights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doerdie 0 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 What are your barrel pressures gonna be shooting under water? Isnt that like shooting with a barrel full of oil or grease? If you had absolutly no air I suppose it may work? What about pressure on the piston? Will the thing cycle or just blow up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TWGLADF 0 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 i've seen ak's fire underwater. not in person but in videos. not in a kiddie pool either. i'm talking in about 5 feet of water. i guess the pressure in the barrel goes up into the gas port. my dad also told me that when he was in the military they dunked an ak in sloppy mud and water and removed it and empied a magazine without a single jam. they didn't clean it or anything. mud in the barrel, action, everywhere! just to show them what they were going to be up against. the ak is one badass weapon! i'm guessing it's got something to do with the way the gas system works. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoeJoe 0 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 (edited) Has anyone here ever thrown a cherry bomb or M47 (firecrackers) in the water or better yet in a comode? Concusion underwater is greater than in air. How do you sink submarines? maybe with a depth charge? Sure you can fire your Saiga underwater, but don't be surprised at the consequences. There was a story in the news a while back about a young lad who fired a pistol in the family pool and lost part of his hand. What you need is a volunteer to demonstrate firing a weapon underwater. Edited January 28, 2005 by MoeJoe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TPABA 0 Posted January 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Kysoldier - yes I do have the rail sight... is it really that bad? I now know you meant the rifle sight... that's not what I have. Is the rail one accurate enough? Like for hunting? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 That point about concussion is a good one. If you fire a gun underwater, and you're underwater too, you'll feel it. Mel Gibson should have suffered severe hearing damage when he killed Jet Li. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I think they were just acting because I know I saw Mr. Lee in a movie since Mr. Gibson killed him. I have also seen Mr. Gibson in a movie since then, so he is not severely damaged in anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ozone_00 3 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 "If the Road Warrior says it, it must be true." - Eric Cartman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diggler 0 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Here's someone who tried it with an AR... I blew up my Bushmaster by bump firing UNDERWATER With Pics! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mordecai 1 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 (edited) Seriously - just do a little math. The charge is supposed to move 1.5oz of lead shot up the barrel. Vol = Pi * r^2 * h Pi = 3.14 r of 12ga = .73 in. h = 20 in. barrel Vol = 3.14 * .533 * 20 = 33.5 cubic inches of water. One cubic inch of water weighs 0.0361 lbs, therefore filling the barrel would add 1.21 lbs of weight or 19.3 oz to the original 1.5 ounces of lead. This increases the load weight by almost 1300%. 12 Gauge SAAMI CUP pressures hover around 12,000 CUP. A .454 Casull is around 50,000 CUP - a 600% increase with that thicker cylinder and barrel. Now, comparison's of pressure are not linear but you're asking a thin little 12 gauge barrel to hold twice that of a .454 Casull? I think I'd pass, or watch it on video. Edited January 28, 2005 by mordecai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoeJoe 0 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 That Bushmaster looks bad enough. Looks like his .223 ruptured alittle at the case. Makes me wonder how it would have come out if it would have been one of those bad boy 3" magnum 12 gauges, you know the ones with the big ole plastic cases. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 TPABA: Couldn't tell ya, haven't shot any Saigas with a rail sight. Couldn't that guy find a cheaper gun to fire underwater? He really screwed up that rifle which looked to have been a nice one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 <<<<Whew!>>> Ok, I just got back from reading ALL 27 pages of that thread and it looks like everyone is saying that the guy is fibbing because he claimed to have a video of the incident but never posted it. Several of the other members claimed that it was obvious that he used pistol load powder in reloaded .223 cases. And even a few of them said it looked like a "classic" hot load blowback. Classic? Do AR"s blow up alot? Anyway, it looks like he actually may have tried to fire a rifle underwater or just blew it up on a hot load and made up a story... I dunno. But check out this video someone put up a link to! http://www.gunvideo.com/pgroup_details.php?pgroupid=866 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 I wonder if it will work in space Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Lack of air make a difference? That video they're selling is all handguns that are blowback operated...a gas powered rifle might be different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 It will work in space. Gunpowder contains its own oxygen, and does not need an air supply to burn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TWGLADF 0 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 hmmmmm. now what was all this people were saying about "water in the barrel will make it blow up.....blah blah blah" a real ak will fire under water! besides, i'm surprised that a POS ar fires in the rain. who the hell would try it underwater? and what i saw wasn't fucking hollywood! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jon elia 0 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 i might be wrong... i thought that (for comparison) the .223 or 5.56 or whatever with its small barrel had a higher presure and thats why it would blow up with something in the barrel and the 30 cal round the ak uses doesn't use such high pressure and wont just blow up...isn't that the reason you can toss an ak in the mud pick it up and stil shoot it with the crap in the bbl and all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 I believe that an AK will fire under water. As interesting as it is to have the ability for submersed fire, Why in the hell would anybody actually try it? Like I said, I saw a few of those homemade gun myth movies that tried it with all kinds of firearms. It was interesting, entertaining and even exciting, but completely unnecassary and destructive to say the least. I love hearing somebody else say "AR crap". It makes me smile! I had a few kit built ARs amongst other "evil" rifles that I ended up selling in a divorce. My Saiga was the first AK style rifle I have ever owned (unless you count the sks) And it has turned me around forever! I am so hooked on this type rifle now that I am even considering trading in some of my other rifles to buy or build more AK variants. Regardless if the AK will cycle underwater or not, the damn thing will cycle through just about anything else! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoeJoe 0 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 The National Shooting Sports Foundation(rule number 8) Before you load your firearm, open the action and be certain that no ammunition is in the chamber or magazine. Then glance through the barrel to be sure it is clear of any obstruction. Even a small bit of mud,snow,excess lubricating oil or grease in the bore can cause dangerously increased pressures, causing the barrel bulge or even burst on firing, which can cause injury to the shooter and bystanders.(nssf.org). Every Gun manual that I have seen has a similar warning. I do not think that anyone has said that guns will not fire under water,cycle or what ever. But there is a possibility that there may be some young adventurous person who reads " You can shoot your Gun underwater!" might just try it. It might be you could fire alot of rounds and get by with it, It is also possible that something bad may happen. A spear gun powered by rubber straps or compressed air might be more efficient under water. The choice is clear--"Heed the warning or suffer the consequences." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kinetic 0 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 There is a variant of the AK designed for under water usage actually. The APS model produced in the 70's. The gas system looks to be the same as a regular AK. APS model for more details about the gun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doerdie 0 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Guys, your dealing with a hydraulic pressure inside you barrel. It's designed to press air. Add anything heavier than its designed to operate and you increase the pressure. If that pressure exceeds the capacity of the steel, the steel gives by bending or splitting. The pressure is also exerted back towards the receiver. The gas port is quite aways up the barrel, it ain't gonna help you relieve any pressure! I figure most people that tried this are probably dead or worse. I hope no one here is dumb enough to try this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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