james peek 14 Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 Does anyone know off hand whats the shortest total legal length for a converted s12. My idea is to have my s12 converted and shorten the barrel to 18 1/4" re threaded with flash hidder or break. just trying to understand the laws on the total length. thanks, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banshee 69 Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 Does anyone know off hand whats the shortest total legal length for a converted s12. My idea is to have my s12 converted and shorten the barrel to 18 1/4" re threaded with flash hidder or break. just trying to understand the laws on the total length. thanks, Federal law says 26" OAL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gkcf 8 Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I assume you have a 19 inch barrel as most today do. If so, is 3/4's of an inch really going to make that much of a differance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacsucks 3 Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I believe as long as the barrel is 16 inches or longer you dont have to get a stamp and register with the BATF as a SBS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I believe as long as the barrel is 16 inches or longer you dont have to get a stamp and register with the BATF as a SBS. Wrong. 16" for rifles, 18" for shotguns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted June 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I assume you have a 19 inch barrel as most today do. If so, is 3/4's of an inch really going to make that much of a differance? my idea is to shorten the barrel to a specific length so when i add a flash hider the total length will be 18 1/4". if i add a flash hider thats two inches then my new length is 21". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix Maximus 1 Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I assume you have a 19 inch barrel as most today do. If so, is 3/4's of an inch really going to make that much of a differance? my idea is to shorten the barrel to a specific length so when i add a flash hider the total length will be 18 1/4". if i add a flash hider thats two inches then my new length is 21". then you'd need to chop off an inch + the length of the part the hider sticks out beyond the barrell..... get ya a tape measure Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gkcf 8 Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Just take it to a gun smith and tell them what you want. That way you can get a receipt for the work and have proof that it was done legally if the ATF decides to come knocking. If you cut the barrel while it's on the gun shorter than 18 inches, your breaking the law. You have to remove the barrel to do that. Now you might ask, how would anybody know? I ask that myself. But then I think... it's the ATF. They make shit up all the time. Without proof it'll be your word against theirs. Might as well just play it safe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 As Bobash said, minumum barrel length is 16" for rifles, and 18" for shotguns. Overall length is 26" for both. I talked with ATF Firearms Technology Branch concerning this measurement recently, and official policy for them is to measure overall length from the extreme ends of the barrel and stock, with any non-permanent muzzle items removed, and a folding/telescoping stock extended to its fullest length. The barrel length is measured by putting a rod that is close to bore diameter (so it can't get sideways and give a false length) down the bore until it hits the closed breech, with the firing pin and/or plunger ejector removed (also to not give a false reading), and measured to the muzzle, after any non-permanent muzzle items have been removed. However, please be advised that some states have state laws that require a minimum 26" length if the gun can be fired at all. This means that if the gun can be fired with the stock folded/collapsed, then it must measure at least 26" OAL with the stock folded/collapsed. Also, it's best to leave at least 1/8" of extra barrel length, just to be sure in case yours or others' measuring instruments are off. To leave 1/4" is even better. It is illegal to cut off the barrel installed in a receiver to attach a permanent muzzle device, unless you are a licensed SOT Manufacturer. While it's true that proving what you did can be difficult, think about this: You cut off the barrel to weld on a muzzle brake. The power goes out before you weld it on. It sits there for hours, or days, and someone breaks in. You call the police. They run across the gun, with a really short barrel, during the investigation of the break-in, that you forgot about in all the excitement. Or perhaps there's a fire, doesn't really matter. ATF is called in to investigate. You guessed it, you go to jail. Or, you cut off the barrel, and while setting up your welder, you fall or something falls on you, and you end up in the hospital. Police often show up with an ambulance, and may be called by the paramedics when they find you in the garage working on a gun. ATF gets called. Again, you go to jail. It's your risk, you must decide. But it is illegal, and you can be pinched by a seemingly innocent chain of events. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Just take it to a gun smith and tell them what you want. That way you can get a receipt for the work and have proof that it was done legally if the ATF decides to come knocking. If you cut the barrel while it's on the gun shorter than 18 inches, your breaking the law. You have to remove the barrel to do that. Now you might ask, how would anybody know? I ask that myself. But then I think... it's the ATF. They make shit up all the time. Without proof it'll be your word against theirs. Might as well just play it safe. So let me see, I purchase a shotgun from an individual at a gun show with a welded-on Tromix shark brake on it that brings it out to 18.25". You're telling me that I need paper work on how the shark brake got installed? Sorry. I think you're overdoing the tin foil hattery on that one. Possession is only illegal if the barrel length doesn't meet the law's requirements. Your last point (and gunfixr's post) are more sensible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Once it's done, it's done, and that's that. I wouldn't worry about it afterward, like you said, they'd just check it and be done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I agree, i have a 16in ak that i shortened the gas system on and was going to chop the barrel down on and permanently attach a fake suppressor, I have a buddy who has a nice welder and is also an FFL, so i headed over to his house with two fake suppressors and some pieces of a barrel stub, to perfect the technique on. Lo and behold, the welder wouldnt turn on. If i had already cut my barrel (even with the barrel off the gun) it would still be sitting here, under legal length, and i would be in violation of federal law. As it is, i just have to wait for my buddy to figure out what he broke on his welder, or find another option. That sounds alot better than an unregistered SBR charge, or constructive intent, as even just a short barreled upper for an AR is a no no. Plus, the rifle is still in one piece, and not out of commission, just looks kinda ugly, like those Uzis with the 16 in naked barrels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 If i had already cut my barrel (even with the barrel off the gun) it would still be sitting here, under legal length, and i would be in violation of federal law. I think that if it was off the receiver, you'd be OK. I wouldn't want to have it sitting there next to the gun for days or weeks though. Here in MI, the overall length is still the Federal 26" on long guns, but State law says that if it's under 30" overall, you have to register it as a handgun. I'm not sure if that's with the stock extended or collapsed though. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 .....That sounds alot better than an unregistered SBR charge, or constructive intent, as even just a short barreled upper for an AR is a no no. If you have at least one AR pistol lower, you can have shorty uppers ( <16") without an SBR stamp. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crux 2 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Now this has probably been asked but I didn't find it. If you have a gunsmith chop the barrel and weld the brake to a compliant length, do you lose credit for that brake as a compliance part now that it is no longer detatchable? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Now this has probably been asked but I didn't find it. If you have a gunsmith chop the barrel and weld the brake to a compliant length, do you lose credit for that brake as a compliance part now that it is no longer detatchable? Why would you "lose credit" for it? It's still a brake, and it's still US made. It being detachable has nothing to do with 922r. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nsa400 11 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 what would be the best way to weld the brake? spot weld,or weld around the entire bbl. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nsa400 11 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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