CBHanlock 1 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I finished my conversion with the ace internal recever block and tube style folding but stock. After I went out and put a case of bird shot and a few dozen slugs down the barel this past weekend, my face was brused and swolen from wher the stock was smashing my cheekbone in to my face. I have a black eye and a brused right cheek. A Would pourthing the barrel along the top twards the end solve the muzzle jump issue enough to keep me form looking like I called Mike Tyson a little girl? If any of you have experience pourting the barrel on your saigs let me know. Thanks Sasquatch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 What did you do, put the butt of the stock on your face? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CBHanlock 1 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Real funny birds, no I have the Kerbs gost ring sights on it and when I have my face on the stock, as most homosapies tend to do when the use a fire arm, looking down the sights, the muzzle flip and recoil bring the muzzle adn consiquential the stock up and smack my mug. But I must say that pulling the trigger 21 times in rapid sucesion to see how long you can keep a coffie can on the run realy makes it all worht it. I have seen ported barrels on premium semiauto sporiting shotguns and was wondernig if a similar treatment would nullify the muzzel clime effictivley enough to be worth my time and trouble. thanks agian Sasquatch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 LMFAO! A bruised shoulder is often normal, but a blackened eye... [/me laughs some more ] Learn, how to properly handle/hold it, what a good cheek weld is and how to shoot/handle the gun from various shooting positions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I'll post this on this thread. The other one is marked for deletion. Don't let it whoop ya. I had my aluminum FSE krink stock on my S-12 for a while and while I got used to it, my brother in law got a good bruising from it. Talk about bumpfiring your mouse with the post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvhanh20 1,052 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Try a warthog! http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry369699 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crfakm4 0 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 We need pic of you and your cheekweld. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BronCobraJet 80 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I was concerned that the wire stock I put on my Saiga 12 would do the same to me. There isn't really a place to put your cheek or anything, but it doesn't flip up at all, and the recoil (or maybe it's just percieved recoil) is diminished enough to make it a non-issue. for the tube stocks like you have, there are mercury filled recoil absorbers, and Enidine makes a hydraulic buffer that may fit your stock. I'm not sure what the mods are - I'm sure somebody else that knows will chime in. Good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 You're not holding it right.My 130lb wife's favorite gun is a Saiga 12 with full tilt military buckshot loads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I'm no expert, but you really shouldn't be getting a black eye from shooting a Saiga 12. A bruised shoulder maybe, but not a black eye. Generally speaking, the stocks that are inline with the barrel tend to not have as much muzzle climb, but can kick you pretty hard. Those with the stock angled down a little will climb more, but not kick as bad. At least that's what I've been lead to believe. I could be wrong. While I don't have an AR stock on mine, I DO have a sighting system similar to what you're talking about. I rest my check against the Tromix stock and have yet to even HURT my cheek, even with 3" magnums and slugs. Are you pressing the butt firmly into your shoulder and your cheek firmly against the stock? If not, the weapon will obviously kick back and punch your shoulder pretty good. If it's muzzle is climbing too, I could see it smacking your cheek a bit. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I think the poor guy is a bit embarrassed. Now that he knows it's not normal and borderline ridiculous to end up with a beat up face after shooting his S12. I kind of feel bad for him and hope he's ok. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I'd like to see a picture of his shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 there is a way to stop the flip. gain about 40 pounds and lean into it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lipadj46 2 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) Don't lean into it that will just get you beat up more. You go with the flow let your whole torso take the recoil, do not be tight and just let your shoulder take it. Make sure you have the shotgun tight into your shoulder pocket though and make sure you have a good cheek weld. If you have an AK stock that won't allow a good cheek weld tape on some foam or something. If your shotgun is giving you a bruised face I'm guessing you need to get back to shooting fundamentals (I assume you are new to shooting as you call muzzle climb "flip"), take some classes maybe. Edited July 11, 2009 by lipadj46 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve in Allentown, PA 5 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I had a similar problem a while ago. Here's the thread on it: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=23999&hl= I added the foam tube cover and shortened the barrel to 18". No more problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) I have seen a guy end up with a bruised face when using an M4 stock on an S-12. He was a nose to the charging handle guy. This put his cheek against the ridge at the front of the stock were the opening for the buffer tube. His shoulder would move under recoil, allowing the stock to do the same. That ridge kept shoving back and forth as it was pressed tight against his face. That was back when I got kissed in the beek buy the folding hing on the stock I was using. This was before anyone offered an internal block. I ended up chopping the Ace universal block and adding screws through the side. We were shooting up some 3" win value pack slugs. If you could post pictures of your gun, maybe we coud make better suggestions. Edited July 11, 2009 by cscharlie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Our S12 hand guards are made from aircraft grade 6061-T6 aluminum and are designed to assist with recoil management and follow up shot accuracy. We have a perfect blend of comfort and function in our hand guards' weight distribution and ergonomics. After some strenuous testing we estimate our KROSS FL Tri-Rail reduces both felt recoil and muzzle rise by approximately 15%-20% compared to the stock factory hand guard. Furthermore, our tri-rails help tremendously with barrel cooling via the dual upper and lower vents. Our S12 hand guard is currently on a pre-order sale special right now for $98.50. If you're looking for even more recoil management you could even add on to that by combining our tri-rail with a muzzle break designed to reduce muzzle rise like the Chaos Warthog. You should notice some significant improvements in your recoil issue. Good luck! Zach Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sly 233 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Dont be embarassed!!!! .........Post a pic!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Etek 32 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Cheek...Nope Eye...Nope Nose... DAMN NEAR! I've got the Russian sidefolder sold here by Saiga-12.com and the folder hinge is on the left and sticks out quite a bit and really wants to bite my nose when firing 3" Magnum slugs. Proper stance and grip has certainly prevented several bloody nose incidents so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJL0325 0 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I have a suggestion: MAN UP, BOY!!!! jk, good luck with your Saiga Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WGMann 0 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Real funny birds, no I have the Kerbs gost ring sights on it and when I have my face on the stock, as most homosapies tend to do when the use a fire arm, looking down the sights, the muzzle flip and recoil bring the muzzle adn consiquential the stock up and smack my mug. But I must say that pulling the trigger 21 times in rapid sucesion to see how long you can keep a coffie can on the run realy makes it all worht it. I have seen ported barrels on premium semiauto sporiting shotguns and was wondernig if a similar treatment would nullify the muzzel clime effictivley enough to be worth my time and trouble.thanks agian Sasquatch Just curious, how do you shoot 21 rounds in rapid succession? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kingjoey 5 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Real funny birds, no I have the Kerbs gost ring sights on it and when I have my face on the stock, as most homosapies tend to do when the use a fire arm, looking down the sights, the muzzle flip and recoil bring the muzzle adn consiquential the stock up and smack my mug. But I must say that pulling the trigger 21 times in rapid sucesion to see how long you can keep a coffie can on the run realy makes it all worht it. I have seen ported barrels on premium semiauto sporiting shotguns and was wondernig if a similar treatment would nullify the muzzel clime effictivley enough to be worth my time and trouble.thanks agian Sasquatch Just curious, how do you shoot 21 rounds in rapid succession? A drum Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtnichols 51 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 MD drum with 1 in the chamber 20 +1 = 21 Real funny birds, no I have the Kerbs gost ring sights on it and when I have my face on the stock, as most homosapies tend to do when the use a fire arm, looking down the sights, the muzzle flip and recoil bring the muzzle adn consiquential the stock up and smack my mug. But I must say that pulling the trigger 21 times in rapid sucesion to see how long you can keep a coffie can on the run realy makes it all worht it. I have seen ported barrels on premium semiauto sporiting shotguns and was wondernig if a similar treatment would nullify the muzzel clime effictivley enough to be worth my time and trouble.thanks agian Sasquatch Just curious, how do you shoot 21 rounds in rapid succession? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I gotta say I'm curious also. The OP should post a pic of his gun with him holding it in the position he used when the gun beat him up. He mentions he has a "tube style folding but(sic) stock". I use an Ace ultra-lite folding stock on mine, which is most definitely a "tube style" folding buttstock, and my gun has never really injured me. With the Ace 1" buttpad, I can shoot ~150 shells and it barely leaves a mark on my shoulder. It sure as hell doesn't hurt my face at all. I think technique is to blame here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crfakm4 0 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Our S12 hand guards are made from aircraft grade 6061-T6 aluminum and are designed to assist with recoil management and follow up shot accuracy. We have a perfect blend of comfort and function in our hand guards' weight distribution and ergonomics. After some strenuous testing we estimate our KROSS FL Tri-Rail reduces both felt recoil and muzzle rise by approximately 15%-20% compared to the stock factory hand guard. Furthermore, our tri-rails help tremendously with barrel cooling via the dual upper and lower vents. Our S12 hand guard is currently on a pre-order sale special right now for $98.50. If you're looking for even more recoil management you could even add on to that by combining our tri-rail with a muzzle break designed to reduce muzzle rise like the Chaos Warthog. You should notice some significant improvements in your recoil issue. Good luck! Zach Not trying to sound like a smartass, BUT, how exactly does the handguard help reduce recoil?? By adding a foregrip maybe? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nilzx 0 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I gotta say I'm curious also. The OP should post a pic of his gun with him holding it in the position he used when the gun beat him up. He mentions he has a "tube style folding but(sic) stock". I use an Ace ultra-lite folding stock on mine, which is most definitely a "tube style" folding buttstock, and my gun has never really injured me. With the Ace 1" buttpad, I can shoot ~150 shells and it barely leaves a mark on my shoulder. It sure as hell doesn't hurt my face at all. I think technique is to blame here. Agreed same ace folder 1" buttpad not beat up evn with my drum (which does not allow 3 inch mags or 3inch slugs just 2 3/4) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) Maybe by the added weight of a rail system compared to a stock forearm. I've fired Drew's S12 w/ quad rail and Eotech and it's got more weight up front than my setup, which is just the stock forearm w/ vert grip. As for the 21 rounds with a drum +1, I've never been able to load 20 rds in my drum and insert it on a closed bolt. To answer the OP's question though, I suspect porting your barrel would reduce muzzle rise. Might make the report a bit louder though (to the shooter). Not trying to sound like a smartass, BUT, how exactly does the handguard help reduce recoil?? By adding a foregrip maybe? Edited July 12, 2009 by Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WGMann 0 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 MD drum with 1 in the chamber20 +1 = 21 Real funny birds, no I have the Kerbs gost ring sights on it and when I have my face on the stock, as most homosapies tend to do when the use a fire arm, looking down the sights, the muzzle flip and recoil bring the muzzle adn consiquential the stock up and smack my mug. But I must say that pulling the trigger 21 times in rapid sucesion to see how long you can keep a coffie can on the run realy makes it all worht it. I have seen ported barrels on premium semiauto sporiting shotguns and was wondernig if a similar treatment would nullify the muzzel clime effictivley enough to be worth my time and trouble.thanks agian Sasquatch Just curious, how do you shoot 21 rounds in rapid succession? Guess you guys don't own a MD drum. You can't lock up one with 20 rounds in it on a closed bolt. 20 rounds max rapid fire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 it sounds like the OP is "limp wristing it" as I call it. your forward gripping hand is not being used properly. you dont just use that hand to rest it steady, you hang onto the thing with it. your mounting shoulder should be tensed to make it rigid, and your elbos SHOULD be pointed to the ground at a 45 degree angle or better. when you forcefully pull all three of your contact points together, and mount the gun hard into your shoulder, you should be able to control the recoil MUCH better. As you get used to it, you can learn to use your hands more, to save your shoulder. this is the ONLY way I can control Tom Cole's full auto short saiga 12 aka "the beast". It hurts like hell with that gun, but it keeps me on target. use your forward gripping hand more, for shit sure..... there are a couple of videos around the board of me doing exactly this. I have taught a good deal of people how to shoot, from pistols, to shotgunning, to long range rifle. I am a lifelong shooter, and gun owner since I was a kid. there is a lot of good advice above for the original poster to consider, as well as the newer shooters on this forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Our S12 hand guards are made from aircraft grade 6061-T6 aluminum and are designed to assist with recoil management and follow up shot accuracy. We have a perfect blend of comfort and function in our hand guards' weight distribution and ergonomics. After some strenuous testing we estimate our KROSS FL Tri-Rail reduces both felt recoil and muzzle rise by approximately 15%-20% compared to the stock factory hand guard. Furthermore, our tri-rails help tremendously with barrel cooling via the dual upper and lower vents. Our S12 hand guard is currently on a pre-order sale special right now for $98.50. If you're looking for even more recoil management you could even add on to that by combining our tri-rail with a muzzle break designed to reduce muzzle rise like the Chaos Warthog. You should notice some significant improvements in your recoil issue. Good luck! Zach Not trying to sound like a smartass, BUT, how exactly does the handguard help reduce recoil?? By adding a foregrip maybe? Corbin is correct. The added weight up front correlates to approximately 1:1 reduce in felt recoil. Our hand guards are comfortable to carry around, but heavy enough in a compact and tight design to contribute to reduced felt recoil and reduced muzzle climb. Our hand guards are primarily built with home defense and close quarter combat in mind. In a home defense type of situation, most altercations do not last more than 1-3 rounds fired, and the ability to put all 1-3 shots on target as quickly as possible is crucial. Granted, the most important feature of our hand guards are offering tactical accessory capability, and vertical foregrips can certainly go a long way in managing recoil, but we wanted the weight of our products to have a function as well. It should be noted, however, that proper shooting technique and a lot of practice is the best method of adjusting to high recoil platforms. Zach Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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