Helping heirs value our guns when we die

[Elkhound 91]

I have this worry/concern that when I die, my wife will hold a garage sale and sell my guns at the curb for $20.00 a piece!

 

 

Actually, I am just kidding, but I do not have any really close friends who are into guns. My Father is too old to rely on and I live in a neighborhood which in is constant flux, as people move in and move out. So, what happens to my guns when I die? (I am not addressing putting the guns in a will, as I generally think it is a bad idea to place specific bequests in a will, nor am I thinking about a trust, as I do not deem that necessary for purposes of this idea.)

 

 

Now, I have receipts for my guns, and as you guys know, my girls each have their Saiga 12s and they certainly know which one is Alyssa's and which one is Natalie's. But, what about the other guns? Sure, I could write down what I think they are worth, but such a number would be subject to many market factors, including the passage of time; supply and demand and changes in legislation. I could write out an instruction that my girls contact a local gun shop, but owners change and gun shops come and go.

 

 

So, I throw this out as a possible public service by the forum and something which could be made a "sticky" topic at the top of one of the forum categories. That is, we have a list of members who would be willing to give their advice either as to where to go to find out the value of the guns, or to give their own learned opinion as to the value of the subject guns. This could be an excellent starting point to help a deceased's board member's family get a fairly good idea as to what our deceased brother or sister's guns should be worth. I am sure many of our family members have no idea what our guns are worth, or how to find out what they are worth.

 

 

For guys like me, who do not have family to rely on, I could simply leave a note in the gun safe that says something like: "Log on to forum-Saiga.com, check topic ________ and contact two or three of the listed members for help assessing the value of these guns."

 

Simple, easy and the instruction to contact two or three forum members would give the members heirs a pretty good idea of the "average" value of the firearms, or where to go to get estimates or other information to help them figure out what the guns are worth.

 

 

Guys and gals could volunteer to be on this list, and the moderators could delete or bar anyone whom they do not believe has the requisite knowledge or experience to serve in such a capacity.

 

 

Just an idea. What do you guys think?

Edited October 4, 2009 by WarriorJudge

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Not a bad idea, WJ.

 

Personally, I'm not that concerned about what happens to my guns, (or other worldly possessions), after I die. After all... I'll be dead!

Edited October 4, 2009 by post-apocalyptic

[TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121]

I have some of the same worries about my mini cooper which is decked out in 1960's period rally equipment. Stuff is worth thousands and the wife doesn't really have a clue and probaby doesn't care....so here are some of my thoughts on the subject mixed with your concerns. In WA we can by statute attach a handwritten list to the will of who we want to get specific bequests. Such list can be modified at any time in the privacy of your own home, without redrafting a will, without witnesses and without having the thing notarized...just cross out the gift sign and date...and you can do this over and over again. Putting some of your guns in the body of the will as a specific bequests though and then selling/trading them would make those guns a lapsed gift...so there would be no effect. Next to that you can sell them during your lifetime. Really you're going to get top dollar...I think this is the best bet you just got to time selling your toys and how long your going to live and be able to enjoy them...you might even call it downsizing, selling a little and keeping some. I mean can I really take my Mini or my guns to a nurcing home??? assisted living maybe.... When the wife's grandfather died she was in charge of selling his stuff...and she admits she forgot everything he ever told her about his stuff (Jade) and just sold it for what she could get...garage sale prices. Thus contact people on the board would be a great resource and wording to that effect could be put in the will or on the safe door but the greeving party might not take the time to check resources even on high dollar times such as guns...she might just want to get rid of it as fast as possible. Maybe another idea would be a group of dealers who could be trusted to put your guns in their storefronts to sell and give your estate the funds???

[waltham_41 52]

I like the idea if it can be put into place without too much trouble. The only fly in the ointment I see is the fact that this is a Saiga forum, and might not be the best place for someones widow to come asking the value of the .30-30 deer rifle that was part of the collection in amongst the Saigas.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

I think it is a fine idea. After spending a lifetime collecting rifles, pistols & shotguns it is definately a concern if it is your passion. I have been entering mine in a program named "My Gun Collection" (appropriately enough ) I have been surprised at what I paid for things over a period of 40 years. I have also been surprised at what I traded over the years, most of which I wish I had back. I have kept a folder with all receipts and notes from pretty near the beginning and it makes for fascinating work entering and logging in the collection. I am also including notes of why I have certain weapons, what my favorites are, which ones belonged to my father, what modifications were made and by whom and so on. Even with all that knowledge, it would still be helpful to have WJ's idea in place. I don't know if it will go anywhere but I like the idea. Thanks for the thought WJ!

 

1911

[banshee 69]

I couldn't care less what my wife/family does with my guns after I'm gone. If they want to give them away that is fine.

[nalioth 405]

I don't think WJ is wanting us to provide "Antiques Roadshow" accurate assessments of the items left behind, but more worried that the folks don't get screwed when (if) trying to sell the collection.

[banshee 69]

I don't think WJ is wanting us to provide "Antiques Roadshow" accurate assessments of the items left behind, but more worried that the folks don't get screwed when (if) trying to sell the collection.

 

 

Blue book Publications would be a good stating point.

 

https://store.bluebookinc.com/Firearms/Default.aspx

[DogMan 2,343]

I couldn't care less what my wife/family does with my guns after I'm gone. If they want to give them away that is fine.

Man, I've seen your collection. Can I call you "Uncle Banshee"?

[gpqueen 545]

I like this idea. If my wife sold my guns for what I told her I paid for them, somebody would be getting a hell of a deal.

I could help anyone with pricing if needed. The Bluebook is a good starting point.

[Bvamp 604]

this was brought up a couple years back, actually.

 

one of the things that was said, if i recall correctly, is to NAME every gun you own in your will, and photograph them all. If you dont do this, firearms fall into the category of "state owned" when you die.

 

Another thing you can do is have a co-executor to your will, specifically, to handle the evaluation and transfer or selling of your firearms, on your behalf, NOT your families behalf. This should be someone that you COMPLETELY trust, beyond a doubt, and you should stipulate in EXTREME DETAIL your wishes, each gun's purpose, if they are to be left to your son and not sold, or sold on so and sos behalf, etc etc etc

 

 

 

IF YOU DONT document and will your firearms, THE STATE CAN AND WILL TAKE THEM upon your death.....and if they dont, as if they never existed in your possession, any single one that enters your home can "liberate" part of your collection as they wish, including any attorney, or executor to your will.

 

 

this is a VERY VERY important topic, folks, and Im not drawing what I say out of thin air.

[nalioth 405]

one of the things that was said, if i recall correctly, is to NAME every gun you own in your will, and photograph them all. If you dont do this, firearms fall into the category of "state owned" when you die.

 

<snip>

 

IF YOU DONT document and will your firearms, THE STATE CAN AND WILL TAKE THEM upon your death.....and if they dont, as if they never existed in your possession, any single one that enters your home can "liberate" part of your collection as they wish, including any attorney, or executor to your will.

Is this a New York State law?

 

In Texas, it all goes to your next of kin, if you don't have a will.

[Elkhound 91]

Interesting thoughts.

 

 

Nalioth is correct, I don' want my girls to be "cheated" out of the proper value of the guns I worked hard to pay for. I know I will be gone and have no say in it once I'm dead, but the money I used to buy my guns would have gone to my daughters had I not spent it, so I want them to reap the benefit of what the guns are worth. Blue book publications and checking comps on Gunbroker are good ideas, and things we would know to do, but those are not things my wife would know to do.

 

CarolinaSS is right. How many of our spouses really know how much we have wrapped up in our guns? Probably very few. But, I would not mind my wife and daughters being pleasantly surprised by getting a good price for the guns once I'm gone.

 

 

Bvamp. You know I try hard to stay away from legal particulars on this board. However, the laws of intestacy (known as intestate succession), which are in place in all 50 states, provide a blueprint for the passing of your property if you die without a will. Lawfully, it is very, very, rare that property "escheats" or goes to the state if a person has any living heirs. So, the state should not get your guns. I do not advocate putting specific guns in your will because if you die and five years before you sold the specifically referenced gun, now your heirs have a problem. So, I do not have my collection in my will.

 

 

But, the whole idea of this post is for us to come up with a way to help each other and to be thinking about this topic. As you know, our heirs will have to deal with this issue sooner or later.

 

WJ

Edited October 5, 2009 by WarriorJudge

[Bvamp 604]

have fun with this topic. Im done being insulted around here.

 

Ill PM you the NRA link, if i can find it, WJ.

 

good luck.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

When my grandfather passed away (I was eight at the time), my mother and her sisters knew little to nothing about firearms. He had four long guns and a few handguns. My mother kept the long guns as family heirlooms, but the handguns were all either given away or sold very cheaply. To this day I have no idea what they were, but if they were similar in quality to his long guns, it's a damned shame they were not kept in the family.

 

I like your idea, and have a few things to add. Most board members will have a great deal of knowledge in one or a few categories of arms, and it might be helpful to identify those who volunteer along with a brief description of their particular zone of interest. I would be glad to offer help estimating values of most military arms of the last century, but wouldn't know the difference between an $800 over/under and a $10,000 one. Similarly, we have resident AK experts who will recognize a Maadi or a VEPR on sight, but couldn't care less about rifles in the AR family.

 

When it comes to a will or instructions left for family, especially if the rest of the family has little or no interest in firearms, it is also wise to leave instructions for the disposition of ammunition and other associated objects and materials. Will your relatives recognize magazines, stripper clips, loading dies, presses? Will they know that big sawtooth knife is a bayonet for a K98? Numbered and/or labeled photographs included with and referenced by your will or instructions are a helpful way to insure your family is able to identify your more valuable possessions (not just guns).

 

It may also be useful to your family, again depending on their level of knowledge, to leave a note explaining the legal aspects of selling firearms, especially if you live in a more restricted state. To those who aren't familiar with the process, especially having recently lost a loved one, it can be an intimidating and stressful endeavor. In some states a face-to-face cash transaction is perfectly legal, in others it is not. For example, in my state it is perfectly legal to sell a long gun in a face-to-face transaction to another resident of Nebraska, but you cannot sell a handgun in a similar fashion unless the purchaser has a Firearm Purchase Certificate issued by their county of residence. If you have any NFA items, this is especially important. You probably don't want your spouse or child in legal hot water for selling your transferable M11 at a garage sale.

 

If you have any hiding places the family does not know about, or safes to which only you have the combination, a safety deposit box is the perfect place to store detailed information. Just make sure your family knows about the safe deposit box. A friend's uncle passed away a couple of years ago, and the family did not learn of his safe deposit box until a bill arrived several months later from the bank (evidently he had paid for it a year at a time). A number of important items were found, including the titles to his vehicles and several thousand dollars worth of gold his wife didn't know existed.

 

Regardless of the finer details, the primary focus of any post-existence preparations I make is the reduction of stress for my heirs. Digging through the detritus of a deceased relative is never fun, so whatever can be done to make the experience less difficult and shitty, should be done.

 

Six paragraphs later, I'm done droning on. Apologies for the long post.

[rogertc1 4]

Having a niced sized collection I put in my Will that my son gets them. Sad thing is that none of my family gives one hoot about firearms. No interest.

[chevymann 13]

WJ,

 

An appraisal can help out in this situation as well as a disaster situation like a house fire.

 

We had a house fire in 2005 Lost all my collections (weapons, baseball cards and guitars). Found out insurance policies don't automatically cover a lot of collections. For many collections,, they must be apprasied by a certified appraiser and listed as a rider on the policy. I know that coins or other unserialized collections are very difficult to insure since if they are stolen they are impossible to track.

 

My wife and I started a part-time appraisal company to try to fill a void of this type of business. We specialize in firearms and classic cars (what we know best), but we have done antiques and some unique collections. My wife has been in the insurance industry for many years and got trained and certiifed in appraisals (CAGA). She's also a NRA certified basic pistol and CCW trainer that does a lot of classes specifically aimed at women shooters.

 

If an owner of a collection has already done all the legwork of documenting the colleciton with detailed descriptions and pictures, the appraisal is fairly fast and cheap. If there are enough pictures and supporting documentation, the appraisal can often be done remotely and affordably. With the proper documentation, it's just a matter of verifying the values and putting together the apprasial booklet and sending it off in the mail. The time and cost goes up if there are multiple items that require lots of research to determine their origin and value.

 

We are not business members here, so I will not post the company name or link to our site. If you like, you can PM me for more info or call if you still have my cell number.

 

I know locally, some gun stores offer apprasials as well. Even though they probably aren't certified apprasisers, anything is better nothing.

 

Joel

Edited October 5, 2009 by chevymann

[vbrtrmn 167]

I started keeping a spreadsheet with the list of my collection and each piece's market value... mainly for insurance purposes. If you have Home Owner's insurance, be sure to check your firearms coverage, most companies only provide $500 worth of insurance for them.

[Ryann 8]

I for one, do not need to worry about such things.

I plan on living forever.

[Azrial 1,091]

You could create a custom search in GunBroker and leave the links in a file with each guns name or number. That way when the click it, the results will be current.

[SOPMOD 254]

Create a Holy Gun Shrine in a room of your house!

 

It's easy,make it the spookiest and most high security thing in the house with it's own separate alarm system and special lighting and displays and then insure everything for 10x it's value.

 

If you make a big deal about it and they can see it then they would be freaked out to not treat them with respect.

 

My weapons will be like heirlooms to my children laden with emotional weight and sentiment.No,more than that,like Holy Relics to be kept secret and guarded for generations and the thought of abusing or being parted from them would be like pissing on my grave for which I would haunt them from beyond the veil.

 

 

I won't have any problems with this young lad as he asks me every time we shoot "Can I have your guns when you die?"

 

 

At least I know he has his priorities in the right place,LOL

Edited October 9, 2009 by SOPMOD

[vbrtrmn 167]

Great pic SOPMOD! I like the way you think.

[RobRez 1,895]

I like this idea. If my wife sold my guns for what I told her I paid for them, somebody would be getting a hell of a deal.

I could help anyone with pricing if needed. The Bluebook is a good starting point.

Or the old, "That gun? Oh, that's charlie's gun I'm just borrowing it." Well It'll sure be Charlie's gun then!

I wonder about having my ashes mixed in with gunpowder for a 21 Saiga 12 salute!?! Do you think that would work?

[clifton 354]

I wonder how they would get in my safe...... I pretty sure I will go first... but I hope my son grows up, with a gun in his paw

[t165 30]

For some reason WarriorJudge I thought you were a sitting magistrate. If I am correct I would think that you better than anyone would know the proper course of action. And I have thought of what I should do also. I have a 15 year old son and a 13 year old daughter. Neither one is interested in shooting sports or hunting. The only shooting my son does is when playing video games. Besides a 340 Weatherby rifle and a 7mm Ruger rifle I was gifted from my wife, after she found out she was pregnant with each of our children, they can sell the collection if they wish. I thought of advising them to sell each one individually on Gunbroker.com. Most firearms seem to bring fair prices. I have down sized to about 80 firearms but that would still take some effort to auction each and every one off through Gunbroker.com. Hopefully my son will develope interest. If not, then perhaps I'll live long enough to watch my grandkids grow up. The ones who show interest if firearms will get some fine ones.

[BronCobraJet 80]

Having a niced sized collection I put in my Will that my son gets them. Sad thing is that none of my family gives one hoot about firearms. No interest.

Same thing here. A few nice guns, but no family that would give two hoots about them. Instead of putting them in a will, to be given to a nephew or two that wouldn't even know how to take care of them, and not wanting them to be given up to the state, how would I go about transferring them to, say, a younger member here on the forum that would appreciate them and use them? (one of them is declared as a destructive device, a USAS-12) I would MUCH rather have someone that would want to keep them and use them instead of seeing them taken by the State and destroyed (or lawyer get them for nothing). Any ideas? I'd like to get all my ducks in a row now, until it's too late to do it later.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Having a niced sized collection I put in my Will that my son gets them. Sad thing is that none of my family gives one hoot about firearms. No interest.

Same thing here. A few nice guns, but no family that would give two hoots about them. Instead of putting them in a will, to be given to a nephew or two that wouldn't even know how to take care of them, and not wanting them to be given up to the state, how would I go about transferring them to, say, a younger member here on the forum that would appreciate them and use them? (one of them is declared as a destructive device, a USAS-12) I would MUCH rather have someone that would want to keep them and use them instead of seeing them taken by the State and destroyed (or lawyer get them for nothing). Any ideas? I'd like to get all my ducks in a row now, until it's too late to do it later.

 

 

I would imagine to get your ducks in a row, you will need their real name for your will, although to be honest I have no idea how a willed NFA transfer to a non-family-member works... That being said, is 22 young enough? Hopefully by the time you'd need to worry about such a thing, I'll be old, gray, and wondering to whom I should will my collection.

 

If you have any decent trap guns in your collection, you might will them to a local high school trap team. There might be something similar you could do with any .22 rifles; some summer camps still teach children to responsibly handle weapons, including a number of Boy Scout camps. For any items you don't have specific homes in mind for, you may be able to arrange some or all to be sold by the executor of your will, and the proceeds either provided to your heirs, or donated to a selected charity.

[Elkhound 91]

A person can write instructions until they are blue in the face; they can put specific bequests in their will; they can try using a testamentary trust, or an inter vivos trust, but the bottom line is, who do you trust to help your gun clueless heirs value the guns?

 

That is the purpose of this post. To try to set up a "blue ribbon' panel or listing of persons who would provide free assistance in such a time of grief.

 

 

Leaving an instruction, telling a wife, such as mine, to look up comparable guns on Gunbroker is simply not feasible. My wife would have Zero interest in doing so. Setting a value, and putting it in the gun safe is also subject to market fluctuations and changes due to the passage of time. However, many of us know, off the top of our heads, the approximate value of many types of firearms.

 

 

Also, I was targeting this question at the vast majority of us who do not have a huge estate. Obviously, if you are/were a person of substantial means, your heirs can pay the attorney, or C.P.A. or have the executor do it. However, that is not the case for most of us.

 

 

But, just getting people to think about this issue is the first step.

 

 

WJ

Edited October 11, 2009 by WarriorJudge

[BronCobraJet 80]

Well this topic is interesting to me because - even with a will - your wishes can be completely ignored. There was a case where a coin collector here in Nebraska donated his entire rare collection to the University on the condition that the collection would never be seperated. Well, you already know the outcome. The University decided it had comm into some tragic economic times and broke up the settings and auctioned some of them off. WTH? How could they possibly do that? Shandlanos, since you were the first one to speak up, and since you are a member here, you will be the first considered. I see you are in NE also?