Gunfixr Gas Plugs

[Spartacus 1,619]

Threading shouldn't make much difference really. The plug is indexed by the detent pin. If it's locked into a notch, the vent hole of the plug is lined up pointing down, where the ports are. If anything you may need to unscrew it one more turn.

 

Yep, that makes sense.

 

The threading would affect where the plug bottoms out, but that's not really important.

As you said, if the ports are blocked, back it out a turn.

[rjcatp101 0]

The Gunfixers Gas Plug is just a sweet device. I can't wait to get another to outfit my other gun (damn the limited funds). I love these flippin guns, and this forum

[Gunfixr 76]

Actually, the threading will make a difference, but not a large one.

The pitch is 1mm, which in inch measurement is about .039" from peak to peak. What this means is that depending on where the plug bottoms out, when it's backed out to the -1 setting, the differenc in the total depth can vary by as much as .039".

 

For setting 1, whether + or -, the cut depth is about .050", which means this variance can almost double the opening.

 

For setting 2, the cut depth is about .075" to .080", which means that the variance can increase the opening by about 50%.

 

For setting 3, the opening is wide open, so it won't make much difference.

 

The plugs are programmed to have the threads start at the same point on all of them, at least that's the given specs as I designed it. Therefore, every plug will bottom out pretty much the same in the same gun. However, I have no control over the threading in the gas block, and, apparently, neither do the Russians.

 

The CNC machines do have that capability, though, so they can be threaded the same, even though they aren't.

 

Guess I need to finish the new plug. It is user set to their individual gun, and requires no adjustment afterwards. Just shoot what you want, mix-n-match, whatever.

[Paladin 37]

FWIW, my S12 ran flawlessly before I installed Gunfixer's plug. And it still does, but now I can change the setting to slugs with a quick twist. IMO that alone is worth the modest price.

 

A friend was having problems with his S12 cycling, he installed a plug and now his runs just as well.

 

It's a win-win not matter what.

[6500rpm 670]

First I'd like to say I'm a fan of the options the plug gives. Second, for gunfxr since you seem to have you head firmly wrapped around this, is it neccessary for the puck to have free travel between the plug and carrier extension? Reason I ask is that you had been talking about the volume that the gas chamber has. This is taking things to the extreme, but would there be any benefit to custom tuning the carreier extension to the seated plug and puck choice (ie: unscrew the carrier extension with all items in place to the point of minimal internal clearance in the gas block with the bolt lugs locked). Just curious.

 

 

[Gunfixr 76]

Maybe. As of yet, I'm not sure, and I haven't yet had a chance to experiment on this.

That free space allows a couple things. One, it makes room for crud build up without the bolt carrier extension bottomoing out on the puck instead of the receiver. Two, it allows some expansion space before the puck starts to push on the carrier extension, kind of a "running start". I don't think the running start is too big a deal, as you can tilt the muzzle up, dropping the puck back to the carrier extension, and eliminate it, and the gun still works the same. So, it's probably more to do with gas volume.

 

I mentioned a puck with a counterbore in it. This puck was longer, and the counterbore tapered out to the edge. The idea was to scrape the bas block clean and move the crud up into the puck, so that it would continue to move freely longer without cleaning. The gun wouldn't work with low powered loads at all, and switching back to a solid plug fixed the problem. Now, for clarification, I was doing this on my shotgun, which has a bore length of about 15", since it has a permanent muzzle attachment ending at 18".

 

The gas system is a careful balance of pressure, volume, and time. This combination overcomes the weight (inertia) of the bolt carrier and it's spring, as well as the hammer spring and it's interia, right after it has started moving. It must also withdraw what may be a tight shell casing. Shotguns are a low pressure round to begin with.

 

To close up the space will let guns with less gas operate more fully, but they will lose the running start. Also, since the puck will immediately be pushing on the bolt carrier, it will start to open earlier. Also, the time will mean that there may still be pressure applied after the puck has bottomed out at the far end of the gas block, venting higher pressures under the handguard.

 

I think now, which means I haven't yet tested this theory, that closing up the free space will probably help shorter barreled guns, where the dwell time is much less, and an earlier start can be good. Also, since the barrel is shorter, the chamber and bore pressure will fall off much earlier, so the earlier beginning of opening won't be detrimental.

[Paulyski 2,227]

I would be quite interested in the results of that test, being as with the area that we have in the chamber the gas has room to pressurize the chamber & distribute uniform pressure on the puck.

 

If the puck is pressed against the Gunfixer plug, there would be a minuscule chamber & high pressure would develop bottom center of the puck where the cutout of the plug is. There would be no place for the pressure to build up.

If they could have done that at the factory & not had a puck rattling around I would be surprised if the wouldn't have done it.

 

Angle of flow & a proper pressure chamber for pressure buildup to distribute force equally are important for any piston driven machine.

Think about it like a combustion chamber.

Or like a game of billiards with a thousand balls flooding out of one point. You want it to be like a fan, so the gas ricochets in differing directions mixing & accumulating pressure evenly around the cylinder & increasing in pressure to drive the piston efficiently.

That running start, is pressure building up.

 

Edit: 4 spelnlig

Edited March 22, 2010 by Paulyski

[Gunfixr 76]

Well, I made a few pucks, and did some experimenting. I made a lightweight puck, since I was curious about one, and I made a regular puck, but longer. I actually made 2 lightweight pucks, one regular length, and one longer. I measured the space distance, and with either a factory gas plug or mine, the actual free space for puck movement is about .025", provided the plug is fully bottomed out. So, my longer pucks were made .025" longer.

The test guns were a factory 19" barrel gun, made in '06, which had 4 factory ports. It was only slightly used, still plenty rough. he other gun was my own, which is pretty smooth, and the barrel ends at 18", with about the last 3" being the permanent muzzle device. The ammunition was Federal bulk pack, purchased at Chinamart, shot size 7 1/2. Clearly, a few boxes of shells through 2 guns isn't an exhaustive test, but it gave an idea at least. I used the Saiga factory 5 round magazine for all testing, firing a group of 5 rounds with each change, always standing in pretty much the same spot, and seeing where the empties went. I left the previous empties in place, to eliminate guessing, and policed them up only when changing guns.

First was the stock gun, with the stock gas plug and stock puck. The first 4 rounds went out, and the fifth got caught by the closing bolt, failing to eject. Changing the puck to the same length lightweight puck, the exact same thing happened. The first four went out, and the fifth got caught. They went no further out from the gun, but the pattern did shift some. The first group went out about 2 to 4ft away, and slightly forward. The second group went the same distance, but more directly out to the side. Changing to the longer lightweight puck resulted in the same pattern, but all five rounds did fully eject. Then, I went back to the stock puck, but with the Gunfixr gas plug. The pattern stayed the same, but the shells pretty much all went the 4ft, with maybe one going less. Changing to the same length lightweight puck made no noticeable difference. Changing to the longer lightweight puck didn't make the shells go noticeably further, but did move the pattern back towards the rear just a bit more, still overlapping the earlier patterns.

I went to the other gun, my personal one. I started with a factory gas plug and a factory puck. The first 2 rounds failed to eject, with both shells getting caught by the closing bolt. The last 3 did get clear of the gun, about 2 to 4 ft. I changed to the regular length lightweight puck, and while all 5 rounds did eject, it was only barely. Changing to the longer lightweight puck made all 5 rounds go about 3 to 4 ft out. All shells went slightly forward, as the other gun did. I changed to a Gunfixr plug and factory puck, which is how the gun has normally been run. However, the plug in my gun is slightly modified, in that it has a shallow counterbore in the face where it meets the puck. This is because the ports are on the large side, and it fills up with crud quickly. It doesn't stop running, but gets packed up rather bad, and the space was to make room. I just haven't had time to address it. Also, the head end, where it is turned, has been shortened by almost half, as the railed handguard won't let a full length plug clear it to be inserted. I wasn't going to hack up another plug unless I saw more differences in this gun than the other. So, my counterbored plug was used for all the pucks. Anyway, the shells all ejected, right at 3 to 4 ft, and slightly forward, which is what I expected, since this is how the gun is normally set up. I changed to the regular length lightweight puck, and there was no real difference, except that the pattern shifted slightly back. I changed to the longer lightweight puck, and the pattern moved back just a bit more, and the shells were closer to all being at the 4ft mark.

For all testing, the factory gas plug was used at setting 2, and the Gunfixr plugs were used at setting 3. The factory puck was measured at a diameter of .8255" with a micrometer. The pucks I had made measured .8250" for the regular length puck, and .8255" for the longer length puck. Both pucks weighed exactly 1oz., and the factory puck weighed 1.3oz. The lightweight pucks have 3 grooves instead of 2, which are also deeper, as well as a hole drilled into the side facing the bolt carrier.

All in all, the lightweight puck idea didn't pan out. The bolt carrier might be moving a bit faster, but not any harder. Also, the longer puck, taking up more of the expansion chamber, didn't have as much of an effect as might be thought. I later made another puck, without the extra deep grooves and hole, but the longer length and a larger diameter, which measured .827", and it made more of a difference than all the rest. I also had acouple other small differences, which may or may not have had an impact. But, I only tested that one in my gun with my plug.

 

So, does the gas plug help? Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. I think it's pretty well established around here that with the variances in the guns themselves, there isn't anything on the market that helps them all universally. If there was, there wouldn't be so many combinations of things to try when a gun isn't working right. For the people who want it, it does give the ability to quickly change settings, which the factory plug does not.

[6500rpm 670]

And that's why your the Man...thanks for taking the time out to experiment and document.

[IronRonin 19]

My GFP DOES bottom out at the PERFECT spot, which my factory plug does not (needs to be backed out past 2 to get to 1).

 

I am going to try backing my GFP out another full turn for setting 3, and see if that makes a difference for running Federal Bulk 100%. I should have tried that last session!

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Well, I made a few pucks, and did some experimenting. I made a lightweight puck, since I was curious about one, and I made a regular puck, but longer. I actually made 2 lightweight pucks, one regular length, and one longer. I measured the space distance, and with either a factory gas plug or mine, the actual free space for puck movement is about .025", provided the plug is fully bottomed out. So, my longer pucks were made .025" longer.

The test guns were a factory 19" barrel gun, made in '06, which had 4 factory ports. It was only slightly used, still plenty rough. he other gun was my own, which is pretty smooth, and the barrel ends at 18", with about the last 3" being the permanent muzzle device. The ammunition was Federal bulk pack, purchased at Chinamart, shot size 7 1/2. Clearly, a few boxes of shells through 2 guns isn't an exhaustive test, but it gave an idea at least. I used the Saiga factory 5 round magazine for all testing, firing a group of 5 rounds with each change, always standing in pretty much the same spot, and seeing where the empties went. I left the previous empties in place, to eliminate guessing, and policed them up only when changing guns.

First was the stock gun, with the stock gas plug and stock puck. The first 4 rounds went out, and the fifth got caught by the closing bolt, failing to eject. Changing the puck to the same length lightweight puck, the exact same thing happened. The first four went out, and the fifth got caught. They went no further out from the gun, but the pattern did shift some. The first group went out about 2 to 4ft away, and slightly forward. The second group went the same distance, but more directly out to the side. Changing to the longer lightweight puck resulted in the same pattern, but all five rounds did fully eject. Then, I went back to the stock puck, but with the Gunfixr gas plug. The pattern stayed the same, but the shells pretty much all went the 4ft, with maybe one going less. Changing to the same length lightweight puck made no noticeable difference. Changing to the longer lightweight puck didn't make the shells go noticeably further, but did move the pattern back towards the rear just a bit more, still overlapping the earlier patterns.

I went to the other gun, my personal one. I started with a factory gas plug and a factory puck. The first 2 rounds failed to eject, with both shells getting caught by the closing bolt. The last 3 did get clear of the gun, about 2 to 4 ft. I changed to the regular length lightweight puck, and while all 5 rounds did eject, it was only barely. Changing to the longer lightweight puck made all 5 rounds go about 3 to 4 ft out. All shells went slightly forward, as the other gun did. I changed to a Gunfixr plug and factory puck, which is how the gun has normally been run. However, the plug in my gun is slightly modified, in that it has a shallow counterbore in the face where it meets the puck. This is because the ports are on the large side, and it fills up with crud quickly. It doesn't stop running, but gets packed up rather bad, and the space was to make room. I just haven't had time to address it. Also, the head end, where it is turned, has been shortened by almost half, as the railed handguard won't let a full length plug clear it to be inserted. I wasn't going to hack up another plug unless I saw more differences in this gun than the other. So, my counterbored plug was used for all the pucks. Anyway, the shells all ejected, right at 3 to 4 ft, and slightly forward, which is what I expected, since this is how the gun is normally set up. I changed to the regular length lightweight puck, and there was no real difference, except that the pattern shifted slightly back. I changed to the longer lightweight puck, and the pattern moved back just a bit more, and the shells were closer to all being at the 4ft mark.

For all testing, the factory gas plug was used at setting 2, and the Gunfixr plugs were used at setting 3. The factory puck was measured at a diameter of .8255" with a micrometer. The pucks I had made measured .8250" for the regular length puck, and .8255" for the longer length puck. Both pucks weighed exactly 1oz., and the factory puck weighed 1.3oz. The lightweight pucks have 3 grooves instead of 2, which are also deeper, as well as a hole drilled into the side facing the bolt carrier.

All in all, the lightweight puck idea didn't pan out. The bolt carrier might be moving a bit faster, but not any harder. Also, the longer puck, taking up more of the expansion chamber, didn't have as much of an effect as might be thought. I later made another puck, without the extra deep grooves and hole, but the longer length and a larger diameter, which measured .827", and it made more of a difference than all the rest. I also had acouple other small differences, which may or may not have had an impact. But, I only tested that one in my gun with my plug.

 

So, does the gas plug help? Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. I think it's pretty well established around here that with the variances in the guns themselves, there isn't anything on the market that helps them all universally. If there was, there wouldn't be so many combinations of things to try when a gun isn't working right. For the people who want it, it does give the ability to quickly change settings, which the factory plug does not.

 

 

 

Thanks for the R&D and taking the time to post your findings, this is the direction I wish more post were taking. When I was having problems with cycling (FTEs) I tried switching back and forth between the stock gas plug and the Gunfixers plug but there was no appreciable difference between the two. I have always looked at the Gunfixers plug as a way to fine tune your S12 and not a fix for under-gassed problems.

[Slug-O 6]

My biggest problem is the nut behind the gun forgetting to turn the plug after shooting birdshot then slugs!!!lol

 

slug-o

[Crusader 64]

My biggest problem is the nut behind the gun forgetting to turn the plug after shooting birdshot then slugs!!!lol

 

slug-o

+1. It has to be set on the right setting. The instructions are very clear.

[MikeD 541]

Nate's plug does in fact increase the cycling power over the factory plug when using low brass. It is very, very minute though and is not likely to make the difference in low brass operating in your gun if it is troubled. But a small few people have reported it did. Whether this was from the actual pulse increase or from their gun getting broke in can't be known. But we tested this in our fullauto saiga-12. And Nate's plug did increase the rate of fire very, very slightly compared to the factory plug. Maybe an extra 5 to 10rd a minute faster... Not much but it is an increase... Just like we stated on our site though, you shouldn't purchase one thinking it will fix low brass issues as you will likely be disappointed.

 

 

 

But I do want to tell you that we (MD Arms) have a new gas plug design. It is much better than the one we sold for Nate. It is a lot more consistent and easy to determine the correct settings. It will be consistent in any gun despite the random start locations of the threads in the gas block. It is more less a self cleaning design as well. I have one that we have put well over 2000 rds on and it is keeping itself clean. We tested well over 15 different design to come up with this plug and will show the other designs once we start selling the one we picked.

 

 

 

And the best part is we will be selling it for a lot less than $40 now that we are making our own. We will likely list them for $20 each and maybe even less! And it is a superior design. We can do this because we no longer will have to pay a substantial chunk of the sale price towards stocking the part.

 

And before someone asks our new design will also not be a fix all for lowbrass issues.

[HarvKY 72]

Mike,

I have your drum and have always spoken highly of your products and overall business venture.

 

I havent liked perceived (by some) subtle attacks of your product, etc by others at times but have stayed out of that.

 

I can empathize with the incredible pressures involved with maintaining a growing independent small business.

 

I have read this thread periodically and its possible that I may have missed derogatory comments aimed at you or you company by Gunfixr, but it seems like there is no need to come onto his thread and basically stomp on it and promote your products over another - expecially when you have your own business section where you posted the basically the same statements.

 

I dont know the details between the two of you surrounding the changes in these plugs - and I dont care to know or see it on these forums.

 

My opinion is worth what you payed for it, but I think there are more professional ways of promoting your business and/or dealing with any possible perceived negative talk or backstabbing, etc than to vent on public forums.

 

Best of luck with all your products.

 

Cheers,

HarvKY

[MikeD 541]

Mike,

I have your drum and have always spoken highly of your products and overall business venture.

 

I havent liked perceived (by some) subtle attacks of your product, etc by others at times but have stayed out of that.

 

I can empathize with the incredible pressures involved with maintaining a growing independent small business.

 

I have read this thread periodically and its possible that I may have missed derogatory comments aimed at you or you company by Gunfixr, but it seems like there is no need to come onto his thread and basically stomp on it and promote your products over another - expecially when you have your own business section where you posted the basically the same statements.

 

I dont know the details between the two of you surrounding the changes in these plugs - and I dont care to know or see it on these forums.

 

My opinion is worth what you payed for it, but I think there are more professional ways of promoting your business and/or dealing with any possible perceived negative talk or backstabbing, etc than to vent on public forums.

 

Best of luck with all your products.

 

Cheers,

HarvKY

I thought I was speaking well of Nate's plug. I posted that it did in fact increase the pulse when using low brass. But also that one shouldn't expect it to fix a low brass issue. Nothing more or less than we disclaimed on our site while selling them. I felt the need to post that the pulse increase was in fact there because a lot of people claim that it wasn't. We tested it, probably more percisly and accurate than anyone including Nate. I can say with absolute certainty that it does very slightly increase the cycling power with low brass. Is something wrong with that?

 

And as far as me talking about our new design... I feel if the OP can mention us in the thread as not stocking the item anymore I can post what we will be stocking from here on out. Nate also posted some things in the Vendor and staff only section and I did make a reply there as well stating why MD Arms won't be stocking them anymore and clearing up some things I felt wasn't accurately represented as why and what I felt the issues between us were... And I also posted there that I have no hard feeling toward Nate and think he is a good guy...

[Stansplace 414]

Mike,

I have your drum and have always spoken highly of your products and overall business venture.

 

I havent liked perceived (by some) subtle attacks of your product, etc by others at times but have stayed out of that.

 

I can empathize with the incredible pressures involved with maintaining a growing independent small business.

 

I have read this thread periodically and its possible that I may have missed derogatory comments aimed at you or you company by Gunfixr, but it seems like there is no need to come onto his thread and basically stomp on it and promote your products over another - expecially when you have your own business section where you posted the basically the same statements.

 

I dont know the details between the two of you surrounding the changes in these plugs - and I dont care to know or see it on these forums.

 

My opinion is worth what you payed for it, but I think there are more professional ways of promoting your business and/or dealing with any possible perceived negative talk or backstabbing, etc than to vent on public forums.

 

Best of luck with all your products.

 

Cheers,

HarvKY

 

 

 

+1.................

 

 

[MikeD 541]

Mike,

I have your drum and have always spoken highly of your products and overall business venture.

 

I havent liked perceived (by some) subtle attacks of your product, etc by others at times but have stayed out of that.

 

I can empathize with the incredible pressures involved with maintaining a growing independent small business.

 

I have read this thread periodically and its possible that I may have missed derogatory comments aimed at you or you company by Gunfixr, but it seems like there is no need to come onto his thread and basically stomp on it and promote your products over another - expecially when you have your own business section where you posted the basically the same statements.

 

I dont know the details between the two of you surrounding the changes in these plugs - and I dont care to know or see it on these forums.

 

My opinion is worth what you payed for it, but I think there are more professional ways of promoting your business and/or dealing with any possible perceived negative talk or backstabbing, etc than to vent on public forums.

 

Best of luck with all your products.

 

Cheers,

HarvKY

 

 

 

+1.................

 

Before post "+1" did you read this??? """""I thought I was speaking well of Nate's plug. I posted that it did in fact increase the pulse when using low brass. But also that one shouldn't expect it to fix a low brass issue. Nothing more or less than we disclaimed on our site while selling them. I felt the need to post that the pulse increase was in fact there because a lot of people claim that it wasn't. We tested it, probably more percisly and accurate than anyone including Nate. I can say with absolute certainty that it does very slightly increase the cycling power with low brass. Is something wrong with that?

 

And as far as me talking about our new design... I feel if the OP can mention us in the thread as not stocking the item anymore I can post what we will be stocking from here on out. Nate also posted some things in the Vendor and staff only section and I did make a reply there as well stating why MD Arms won't be stocking them anymore and clearing up some things I felt wasn't accurately represented as why and what I felt the issues between us were... And I also posted there that I have no hard feeling toward Nate and think he is a good guy..."""""

[KrisFox 69]

Mike,

I have your drum and have always spoken highly of your products and overall business venture.

 

I havent liked perceived (by some) subtle attacks of your product, etc by others at times but have stayed out of that.

 

I can empathize with the incredible pressures involved with maintaining a growing independent small business.

 

I have read this thread periodically and its possible that I may have missed derogatory comments aimed at you or you company by Gunfixr, but it seems like there is no need to come onto his thread and basically stomp on it and promote your products over another - expecially when you have your own business section where you posted the basically the same statements.

 

I dont know the details between the two of you surrounding the changes in these plugs - and I dont care to know or see it on these forums.

 

My opinion is worth what you payed for it, but I think there are more professional ways of promoting your business and/or dealing with any possible perceived negative talk or backstabbing, etc than to vent on public forums.

 

Best of luck with all your products.

 

Cheers,

HarvKY

 

 

 

+1.................

+1

[HarvKY 72]

Mike,

 

AOK then.

 

I was just expressing the way it came across to me at the time.

 

Hope everyones good to go and focus on making saigas better

 

Cheers,

Harv

[billyjoebob 10]

Before post "+1" did you read this??? I thought I was speaking well of Nate's plug.

 

No. Actually the sum and substance of your post was:

 

"But I do want to tell you that we (MD Arms) have a new gas plug design. It is much better than the one we sold for Nate."

 

That's kind of far from an endorsement of the GunFixr plug, don't you think?

 

 

I don't know you (MD) or anything about you, but you crack me up! You jump all over threads reviewing the pro mag drum, touting your drum as the next best thing to God, crying about how unfair the reviewers are. Now in a GunFixr plug technical info thread, you just can't help but to self promote your own "new and improved" plug.

 

I know it must have been great operating your business in a monopoly, and you must be under tremendous stress to survive without charging 400% and 500% markups on products, but it appears that you're going to have to get used to the new competition in the S-12 product market. Whatever your business decisions are, please stop screwing up every thread in this forum that discusses a competing product.

[KrisFox 69]

I don't know you (MD) or anything about you, but you crack me up! You jump all over threads reviewing the pro mag drum, touting your drum as the next best thing to God, crying about how unfair the reviewers are. Now in a GunFixr plug technical info thread, you just can't help but to self promote your own "new and improved" plug.

 

I know it must have been great operating your business in a monopoly, and you must be under tremendous stress to survive without charging 400% and 500% markups on products, but it appears that you're going to have to get used to the new competition in the S-12 product market. Whatever your business decisions are, please stop screwing up every thread in this forum that discusses a competing product.

[Stansplace 414]

^^^^^^^+1 again........

Edited March 28, 2010 by Stansplace

[Crusader 64]

I hate to see buisness members fight with each other. I kind of see buisness members as being the role models for saiga owners. I wish there was something I could do to smooth things over.

[Gunfixr 76]

I hate to see buisness members fight with each other. I kind of see buisness members as being the role models for saiga owners. I wish there was something I could do to smooth things over.

 

I didn't really think we were fighting. There were issues on both sides, they were not settled, we are seperating.

 

I am not sure what you think can be done to smooth things over.

[Paulyski 2,227]

I hate to see buisness members fight with each other. I kind of see buisness members as being the role models for saiga owners. I wish there was something I could do to smooth things over.

 

I didn't really think we were fighting. There were issues on both sides, they were not settled, we are seperating.

 

I am not sure what you think can be done to smooth things over.

Everyone could get together & take a bunch of extacy.

 

 

Then you'll all LOVE eachother & never want to part...

At least for a few hours.

 

ETA:

Although I was "joking" MDMA was developed for use during family therapy.

It alters the mind just right as to induce fond feelings & break down previously formed barriers of animosity.

If it's purely logical business maneuvering though, it's different.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Paulyski

[cellsworth 21]

All I know is that, in my experience, the Gunfixr gas plug that I got directly from Nate definitely does improve performance with low-brass ammunition. The increased impulse to the gas puck may be slight, but with my S-12 it has made the gun go from not quite cycling low-brass ammo reliably, to cycling all but the very lightest loads very reliably. This result was realized with very few rounds through the gun, so break in was not a factor. That, plus the finger adjustment, makes it a great product in my book. Again, this is just my experience, but it is not my imagination.

[Crusader 64]

I hate to see buisness members fight with each other. I kind of see buisness members as being the role models for saiga owners. I wish there was something I could do to smooth things over.

 

I didn't really think we were fighting. There were issues on both sides, they were not settled, we are seperating.

 

I am not sure what you think can be done to smooth things over.

 

Perhaps I could mediate. If I knew what these issues were, perhaps I could help you two come to some kind of agreement. Sometimes it take a third party to see things clearly.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Crusader

[Bayoupiper 738]

 

 

Perhaps I could mediate. If I knew what these issues were, perhaps I could help you two come to some kind of agreement. Sometimes it take a third party to see things clearly.

 

 

 

With your schitzoid record here?

 

 

That would more like fourth and fifth party....................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeD 541]

Before post "+1" did you read this??? I thought I was speaking well of Nate's plug.

 

No. Actually the sum and substance of your post was:

 

"But I do want to tell you that we (MD Arms) have a new gas plug design. It is much better than the one we sold for Nate."

 

That's kind of far from an endorsement of the GunFixr plug, don't you think?

 

 

I don't know you (MD) or anything about you, but you crack me up! You jump all over threads reviewing the pro mag drum, touting your drum as the next best thing to God, crying about how unfair the reviewers are. Now in a GunFixr plug technical info thread, you just can't help but to self promote your own "new and improved" plug.

 

I know it must have been great operating your business in a monopoly, and you must be under tremendous stress to survive without charging 400% and 500% markups on products, but it appears that you're going to have to get used to the new competition in the S-12 product market. Whatever your business decisions are, please stop screwing up every thread in this forum that discusses a competing product.

 

On better thought I should have left my comments in this thread limited to the simplest of impulse increase from Nate's plug, that MD Arms was making there own, and not stocking Nate's anymore... I would remove it now but don't want to appear to alter history.

 

But let me make a touch more history real quick.

 

BillyBlowJob, Let me help you get to know me... I've been bitting my tounge with you. First off pretty much everything I see from you isn't of much help to anyone and just a waste of bandwidth. I even question if you own a Saiga-12, let alone a drum. And you are one of the few guys, that I can count on one hand, to expect to have something anti-MD to say... So that puts you in the SUPER MINORITY. If your brain was half the size of your mouth you would know that what you say doesn't mean much to me...

 

As far as unfair reviews... I think of it as incorrect reviews. ONE Example: some said the weight of the drums was the same. Far from it. And I knew it as soon as I picked it up. And that is from experience, not a good guess... So it wasn't unfair, just straight up false. So without my correction some people would take it for fact... A lot of people do care what my reviews have to say. Let me give you a past example. When Surefire released their stick mag I posted concerns on the lack of steel feedlips and the lack of a steel insert in the front mag catch... Immediately after receiving one I came back and posted my concerns of the plastic feedlips was no more. That I liked the design and thought they was sweet. But my concerns were still there for the lack of a steel insert. And wouldn't you know it... It had plenty of merit. Now, when Surefire looked to better the problem did they call BillyBlowJob? NO. They called ME! And I FREELY gave them the information they needed to improve their design without adding steel. They implemented the geometery change to the shape of the front mag catch and GREATLY improving the strength. They are my competiton just the same, are they not? Is there a second Saiga-12 magazine market I don't know about? Why would I do this? One, because I love this gun. And most of all I trusted them as a company that actually cared about their customers so I didn't mind extending that knowledge to better the platform. I've heard that someone tried to help promag with their 10rd mag too but they didn't want to hear it. That didn't surprise me... Did you know that one of the main supporters of the PM drum was so against AA and claimed it out of wanting to help and protect the customer and Saiga-12 fan. But for some reason when a company, not known for just one unreliable product like AA but many, is coming to market they are all about a "fair" review for them. And this company already had what most here consider to be a bad mag for the saiga-12 as well. When AA came out with their 30rd drum was this person all about a fair review, no. So why the benifit of the doubt for one company and not the other? I pretty much stated why in threads you have read. This person has a serious hard on for me and wanted to use my new competiton against me. Plain to see, you just couldn't keep your mouth shut long enough to learn something. So again, not an "unfair" review, but some "misleading statements to make the other guys drum look better than they actually are review"... What that person didn't consider was they were using their trusted word. And used it in what they HOPED to be a self-gratifiying manner. So all the shit about they cared about the customer came to light for the BS it is. Purly self-motivation. But karma's a bitch...

 

And as far as Nate's plug... I do like the design. And a touch of MD Arms is in it as well. Those that have one of Nate's original can see that. The version we sold for Nate was more refined. I am not asking anything from Nate on that. I am not asking him to revert to his original design and remove anything MD on it... So I dont want to here that shit either... I think despite mine and Nate's (small) differences that he would have a VERY hard time saying that our business together was not very favorable for him. And my complaints are VERY small as well. I like Nate and feel he is one of the most talented and most genuinely good hearted people here.

 

Too bad your brain is so small you can't see these things for yourself. You say stop screwing up every thread in this forum. I say you should shut up and learn something, jackass!

 

My guess is I will be here on this forum, contributing, long after you have lost interest in the platform. And that includes following me around with your futile attempts to defame.

 

As far as I'm concerned... You can kiss the tip, BillyBlowJob!