Range Report

[one2za 7]

**SEE UPDATE - POST #29 BELOW**

 

This was supposed to be posted yesterday, but for the second week in a row I had a hard time getting onto Saiga-12.com, receiving some sort of database error reports.

 

Well it was a good day and it was a bad day. It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.

 

First of all let me say how surprised I was to discover the number of rules and regulations for shotguns at my public range. (I go to this range to shoot my 9mm's and my Yugo AK. This was the first time with a shotgun.)

 

OK, rules, pistol side, 25 yards only, birdshot only, 25 rounds maximum!. WTF?? Rifle side, 50 yds or 100 yds, slugs only. again may I say WTF???

By the way, pistol grip shotties with no stock are not allowed, AND boresighters are not allowed.

 

OK, so to the good. My home sight-in with a NcSTAR laser boresighter was spot on. This baby is surprisingly accurate. Now for the details:

 

Went to pistol side first. Could not get birdshot to cycle on any setting. (tried Winchester 2-3/4 #7-1/2 and #8) Even backed the plug out another full 360 degrees.

At first, at setting 2, they were not ejecting and then getting caught on the front edge as they tried to re-chamber.

At other settings I tried, they simply did not eject and then fully re-chambered.

 

I mentioned it to the range guy and he was nice enough to let me try a couple of slugs and a couple of #1 buckshot.

The slugs (Winchester rifled slugs) ejected and re-chambered fine. (I think I still had it on setting #2)

The #1 buck (Remington 2-3/4) did the same but failed to reset the trigger.

 

My whopping 25 round quota maxed out for the pistol side, I then moved to the rifle side, 50 yards, slugs on setting 2.

Worked fine consistently and again I was surprised at the accuracy. I only had 15 rounds with me, so too soon I was done.

 

On the way out I ran into a guy who I had seen setting up with an S-12 on the pistol side when I was moving to the rifle side.

I told him of my results and he confirmed similar results with birdshot in the past and said he had simply stopped using it.

I have no problem with this, but still need it to cycle #1 or 00 buck reliably.

I am beginning to have regrets for not buying a pump action.

 

I have three ports but don't know the size and I'm not sure I would spend the money on a gunsmith just yet to check them and/or enlarge them.

I had already done some mild polishing of the bolt and hammer but not much else after the conversion.

I must confess that I did the conversion before ever firing the gun. My bad.

 

My plan is to forget the birdshot and try (not sure how yet) to get the #1 or some 00 to cycle reliably or this one is going on the auction block.

Future visits will be to a local indoor range whose rules, get this, are no birdshot, just buckshot and slugs, and no round limit! WHOO HOOO!

(Although the indoor range charges about the same rate, it's hourly, whereas you can spend the entire day at the outdoor range.)

 

The Winchester velocities were 1150 and 1350, the Remington #1 is 1250 and the winchester slugs I think were 1600 (stupidly I discarded the box)

Would increasing the velocity help the cycling problems. Maybe if I switched to 00 high velocity buckshot at 1450 or 1600 like this Hornady's Light Mag Buckshot?

 

HELP! Suggestions are welcome and encouraged, as long as they don't involve suffering the S-12 unto my hinder parts :-O

Edited April 15, 2010 by one2za

[sunnybean 939]

S-12 are notorious for not cycling Winchester low brass. For the most reliable cheapest birdshot go to Walmart (God I hate to say that) and buy FEDERAL 7.5 bulkpacks.

 

I'd bet your gun is fine...it just needs to be broken in and running on the right ammo.

 

ETA, a gunfixer gas plug is a good additon to any Saiga shotgun. The #3 setting made a diffence in my gun when trying to run light loads. YMMV.

Edited April 11, 2010 by sunnybean

[PRISONSHANK 70]

Sunny's right about the federal birdshot, that winchester shit is garbage.

make sure any high brass your shooting is all run through your gun in the "1" setting.

I'd bet money it will cycle federal bulk pack on setting 2.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

First of all, your range's rules are bullshit. Arbitrary, draconian garbage like that is why I don't go to ranges anymore...

 

Don't expect that Winchester trash to work well, if at all, in a S-12, not without a lot of work anyway. Use Federal birdshot, either the "value pack", or, better yet, Federal Game Load 6 or 7 1/2 if they're out of 6. Game Load is actually cheaper than the "value pack" stuff, and it's a little more powerful.

 

Also, realize that S-12's weren't exactly designed for shooting trap. They were designed for military/LE applications, and, to that end, cycle high-brass just fine when brand new. It takes a little "breaking in", and/or polishing of the fcg surfaces to make S-12's reliable with birdshot.

Edited April 11, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[TacSat 90]

its been a few years since i was in FL. but if i remember there is an outdoor range on the south side of the Okeechobee. i use to go there from WPB. your not that far might be worth the trip.

[one2za 7]

Thanks for the input, guys.

As stated, I'm not that concerned with the birdshot, so I may not even try the recommended Federal.

I just want to get #1 and 00 working reliably, so I'd appreciate input on your experience with those rounds.

I've been sitting around working the action manually to help the break-in and two things have come up.

I'll try to pose them here. Forgive me if they've been dealt with before.

 

1. The gas plug: If I tighten it all the way til it bottoms out, it goes just a little bit past setting 1. I was backing it up that small amount and calling it 1, then unscrewing 180 degrees to get to #2. Does this sound right, or should I be unscrewing that small amount plus another 360 degrees to get to the #1 setting, then yet another 180 degrees to setting 2?
    
   
2. The second one is a little harder to explain. I was checking the smoothness of the action to see if there was anything that I could do to improve performance. I noticed that upon drawing back the bolt, the last 3/4 inch seems catchy and rough. This was driving me crazy because I could not see the cause. I removed the spring and tried the action without it. Pretty damn smooth. My attention of course then turned to the spring assembly. I notice that within the spring is a two stage cylinder. When the spring is compressed, the smaller cylinder slides into the larger one. When this is happening and the spring is compressing, the winds of the spring begin to flex to a particular side and begin to rub on the edge of the larger cylinder creating a grinding feel as each wind hits then must move slightly in order to pass over the edge of the cylinder. I realize this is nitpicking, but given the extent some people go to in order to make the action as smooth as butter, I thought this would be an interesting mod. If I were more experienced, I'd remove the pin and break down the assembly and then chamfer and polish the edge of the larger cylinder so the spring would pass over more smoothly. (Sorry for the wordiness, It's Sunday and I'm sitting around with no particular pressing matters.)
   

[one2za 7]

its been a few years since i was in FL. but if i remember there is an outdoor range on the south side of the Okeechobee. i use to go there from WPB. your not that far might be worth the trip.

I'll have to look into that. The one I go to is the county range in Sebastian.

There is a private gun club with a diverse outdoor set up in Port Malabar that I would dearly love to join. It's $100 a year which is not bad, but the first year there is an initiation fee of an additional $200. But with having my pay cut by 20% for the last two years and hyper inflation poised to kick in, I can't justify $300 right now.

[sunnybean 939]

Don't count out the birdshot. It is the most economical way to run your S-12...once it is broken in. I'd be broke if all I had to shoot was high brass in my Saigas. My best guess is that your gun is just not broken in. Most folks will say to run 200+ rounds of high brass before getting too worried about any problems. One way to help speed this process up is to do like you are. Manually cycle the action a bunch. An even better way is to read the polishing threads. Polish all the contact points...bolt, carrier, rails, hammer, etc. This will help a ton.

 

My guess is that you've got the plug setting right...screw it all the way in and then back it off that little bit to #1. I bet it will work fine there once you've got it broken in.

 

As for the rough area near the rear of the bolt's travel, all of mine are like that. Again, your gun is brand new and needs to have some of these things "worked" out. If it will only cycle high brass on #2 then run it there but keep checking every few mags if things haven't worked themselves out so that the #1 setting will work.

 

If you're totally frustrated after a few hundred rounds then I would suggest getting ahold of Cobra's Customs or Lone Star and have them work they magic on your bolt and hammer.

[TacSat 90]

this was a public range,or open to the public i dont remember it costing much to use.if not there was one range right of 95 as you get to WPB. another in ft lauderdale i think off sample rd or a road one way or the other. never had a problem with shotguns at either one but that was 10 yrs ago.

Edited April 11, 2010 by TacSat

[loki0629 55]

Try switching ammo brands. I had really good luck with Remington value pack "target" loads. It just so happened that was what I had on hand when I bought the s-12, it worked fine, and I stuck with it for breaking in the shotgun. I probably have over 1k of that load through the gun.

[Bridis 319]

Sounds like Fellsmere/Sabastian public range. Their new rules for shotguns are bullshit... You also left out their NO RAPID FIRE rule. I was there today and was introduced to the new rules. Needless to say, I won't be going back. If you're a South Florida shooter you can try this new range that opened last September in Okeechobee. I haven't been there yet, but I'm going to go check it out next weekend. The place is called Okeechobee Shooting Sports. According to their flyer, they also have Trap, Skeet and 5 stand.

[one2za 7]

Sounds like Fellsmere/Sabastian public range. Their new rules for shotguns are bullshit... You also left out their NO RAPID FIRE rule. I was there today and was introduced to the new rules. Needless to say, I won't be going back. If you're a South Florida shooter you can try this new range that opened last September in Okeechobee. I haven't been there yet, but I'm going to go check it out next weekend. The place is called Okeechobee Shooting Sports. According to their flyer, they also have Trap, Skeet and 5 stand.

Wow looks interesting. Was just checking out their website. I don't get the no AK's on the rifle range, only on the tactical range though. They also say brass ammo only. This is a problem with my AK. I shoot Wolf Ammo. Anyway, thanks for the tip.

 

BTW, last year when they banned the bore sighters, I was on my way there with one and just happened to have called to ask a few questions. He said that recently two or three jugheads had left them in and blown up their barrels so they banned them. I told him mine was not an end of barrel type, but rather the type that gets chambered therefore posing no danger. He said, "Doesn't matter, we banned them all." What bullshit. Not even logical.

Edited April 11, 2010 by one2za

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Fuck that range. It seems like most ranges these days are run by a bunch of dumbasses. There are a few in the Jacksonville area that are a really good time. Gun Gallery is good for pistols or small caliber rifles (indoors, but it gets hot in there)also, last time I was there some stupid bitch muzzle swept me with a loaded revolver and then looked at me like I was an idiot for dodging the muzzle, Second Amendment Inc. is good for rifles and pistols (no shotguns though, but it is indoor and super nice), Amelia Shotgun Sports is shotgun only and they let me do as many mag dumps as I want into their pit. I go there mainly for reliability testing. There are always a few guys that are very interested in what is going on down there at the WW3 lane, lol.

 

ETA: Gateway range sucks with their 2 second between shots rule. I only waste my money there when I need to sight something in at distance.

Edited April 11, 2010 by evlblkwpnz

[teddyraynelson 2]

That range shit is insane. I live in Cali and the range I go to(P2k) doesn't even have half the rules you mentioned. Do they actually count how many rounds someone is shooting? 25 rds is nothing in a saiga 12, I blow through about 200 every time I go to the local range, not including the other guns I bring. No ak's on the rifle range and no rapid fire? Do they have a rainbow pride flag flyin high? Whats happenin to our country? I'd expect shit like that from our backwards, broke ass, tree huggin state, but Florida? WOW

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Most ranges are getting worse and worse with their arbitrary bullshit little "rules", (the brass-only rule is so that the range can resell all spent casings, it's to line their pockets, not for any safety consideration).

 

I am lucky in that, where I live, there's acres, and acres, and acres of public land I can go shoot on. There's enough land available that I'll pop the truck into 4-wheel and drive out far enough on some little-used trails that I, (and my group), can shoot in relative privacy. It's also beautiful country, (mountainous high desert). I can do pretty much whatever the hell I want out there.

Edited April 12, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[Paulyski 2,227]

Just a heads up guy...

A lot of these recently came out with 3 ports drilled too small.

Your results sound like mine when I first got it.

It would only cycle high brass on setting 2 & birdshot was a lost cause.

 

Make sure yours is broken in first & if the problem persists, there still is hope.

Mine runs great now...

However I have re profiled the friction bearing surfaces & brought the ports to the right size.

 

Also, you want fucked up ranges???

 

I can't find a single range in the Portland Or. area that will let you me fire a shotty at all.

ETA:

Well they're there, but they either don't accept new members, or are closed to shotguns for "legal concerns"

Edited April 12, 2010 by Paulyski

[Bridis 319]

That range shit is insane. I live in Cali and the range I go to(P2k) doesn't even have half the rules you mentioned. Do they actually count how many rounds someone is shooting? 25 rds is nothing in a saiga 12, I blow through about 200 every time I go to the local range, not including the other guns I bring. No ak's on the rifle range and no rapid fire? Do they have a rainbow pride flag flyin high? Whats happenin to our country? I'd expect shit like that from our backwards, broke ass, tree huggin state, but Florida? WOW

 

The 25 round limit is relatively new at the Fellsmere range. I use to be able to shoot as much as I wanted. But it's different now. The range officers pay particular attention to the shotguns because they are loud. You also can't shoot a pistol and a shotgun of the same range lane. There are specific lanes for shotguns (only 2) and the rest are for pistol. They even go as far as looking at your backers to see how damaged they are or if they have any slug size holes in them (when on the pistol range). When I was there today, I had two full MD-20s and a factory 5 round mag sitting on the bench. The range officer asked me if the MD-20s were 50 round drums and then proceeded to advise me of the 25 round limit. I was like WTF, that's BS.

[going12220 125]

seeing how all I use the Saigas for is 3 gun and have to shoot 7 1/2 shot most of the time with a few slugs and buck shot. I run a 11 or 12 lb recoil spring on the front and use "Managed Recoil" slugs and buck shot, gun will cycle about anything that fits the chamber brand wise. Should note I live out in the sticks and can shoot from my back door the gun is well broken in (over 500 rounds)

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

That range shit is insane. I live in Cali and the range I go to(P2k) doesn't even have half the rules you mentioned. Do they actually count how many rounds someone is shooting? 25 rds is nothing in a saiga 12, I blow through about 200 every time I go to the local range, not including the other guns I bring. No ak's on the rifle range and no rapid fire? Do they have a rainbow pride flag flyin high? Whats happenin to our country? I'd expect shit like that from our backwards, broke ass, tree huggin state, but Florida? WOW

 

The 25 round limit is relatively new at the Fellsmere range. I use to be able to shoot as much as I wanted. But it's different now. The range officers pay particular attention to the shotguns because they are loud. You also can't shoot a pistol and a shotgun of the same range lane. There are specific lanes for shotguns (only 2) and the rest are for pistol. They even go as far as looking at your backers to see how damaged they are or if they have any slug size holes in them (when on the pistol range). When I was there today, I had two full MD-20s and a factory 5 round mag sitting on the bench. The range officer asked me if the MD-20s were 50 round drums and then proceeded to advise me of the 25 round limit. I was like WTF, that's BS.

 

Fucking FUDD Nonsense!!! The people who come up with these "rules" don't really believe in the 2nd Amendment. They think it means that citizens have a "right to hunt". "Whatcha need that black rifle fer, boy? Ya can't hunt with it."

 

FWIW, I'm semi-famililar with the area y'all are talking about. I grew up in Melbourne Beach.

Edited April 12, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[Paulyski 2,227]

 

"Whatcha need that black rifle fer, boy? Ya can't hunt with it."

At that point, lock & load, draw down & start chasing them..... As you ask... I'm hunting YOU aint I???

[one2za 7]

I emailed the Okeechobee range and asked two questions regarding their rules. Why is the AK-47 only allowed on the more expensive "tactical range" and why is only brass ammo allowed, which forces people who normally use Wolf ammo to spend 4 times as much. Next day I got a pissy letter telling me that if I didn't like their rules, I didn't need to visit them, nothing regarding my questions. Again may I say, WTF??

I emailed him back and asked why, if he had taken the time to email me, was he so defensive and unprofessional and why had he not at least answered my two questions?

I asked him again to please tell me the "why", the "reasons" for these two rules. I have not heard back from him.

 

I don't get people these days. I'm 63 years old and was brought up with notions like "the customer is always right", meaning that a proprietor should treat a customer with utmost respect if he expects any business from them. Unless I get a reasonable response from this guy, they'll never get my business and I'll tell everyone I can to avoid them.

[going12220 125]

you might look at where the area USPSA and IPSC shooters have matches, they're the type people who are shooting the type equipment you have. also screw that range ass clown.

best guess on the brass is they sell scrap brass at about $ 80.00 a 5 gal bucket, no money for steel.

Edited April 14, 2010 by going12220

[Bridis 319]

I emailed the Okeechobee range and asked two questions regarding their rules. Why is the AK-47 only allowed on the more expensive "tactical range" and why is only brass ammo allowed, which forces people who normally use Wolf ammo to spend 4 times as much. Next day I got a pissy letter telling me that if I didn't like their rules, I didn't need to visit them, nothing regarding my questions. Again may I say, WTF??

I emailed him back and asked why, if he had taken the time to email me, was he so defensive and unprofessional and why had he not at least answered my two questions?

I asked him again to please tell me the "why", the "reasons" for these two rules. I have not heard back from him.

 

I don't get people these days. I'm 63 years old and was brought up with notions like "the customer is always right", meaning that a proprietor should treat a customer with utmost respect if he expects any business from them. Unless I get a reasonable response from this guy, they'll never get my business and I'll tell everyone I can to avoid them.

 

 

Some people haven't figured out that the internet is a powerful tool that can both severely hurt or help a business. I would resend your email with a notice that explains how you are trying to conduct a fair review for a shotgun based forum and you'd like some answers.

 

If I go, I'm going to shoot some steel case 223 Horndy. If they dont like it, they can attempt to explain why.

[setlab 11]

I emailed the Okeechobee range and asked two questions regarding their rules. Why is the AK-47 only allowed on the more expensive "tactical range" and why is only brass ammo allowed, which forces people who normally use Wolf ammo to spend 4 times as much. Next day I got a pissy letter telling me that if I didn't like their rules, I didn't need to visit them, nothing regarding my questions. Again may I say, WTF??

I emailed him back and asked why, if he had taken the time to email me, was he so defensive and unprofessional and why had he not at least answered my two questions?

I asked him again to please tell me the "why", the "reasons" for these two rules. I have not heard back from him.

 

I don't get people these days. I'm 63 years old and was brought up with notions like "the customer is always right", meaning that a proprietor should treat a customer with utmost respect if he expects any business from them. Unless I get a reasonable response from this guy, they'll never get my business and I'll tell everyone I can to avoid them.

 

 

Post their email and other contact info. I'm sure there are quite a few people on here that have nothing else better to do but spam their email with complaints.

Edited April 14, 2010 by setlab

[Wade Pruetz 103]

This was supposed to be posted yesterday, but for the second week in a row I had a hard time getting onto Saiga-12.com, receiving some sort of database error reports.

 

Well it was a good day and it was a bad day. It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.

 

First of all let me say how surprised I was to discover the number of rules and regulations for shotguns at my public range. (I go to this range to shoot my 9mm's and my Yugo AK. This was the first time with a shotgun.)

 

OK, rules, pistol side, 25 yards only, birdshot only, 25 rounds maximum!. WTF?? Rifle side, 50 yds or 100 yds, slugs only. again may I say WTF???

By the way, pistol grip shotties with no stock are not allowed, AND boresighters are not allowed.

 

OK, so to the good. My home sight-in with a NcSTAR laser boresighter was spot on. This baby is surprisingly accurate. Now for the details:

 

Went to pistol side first. Could not get birdshot to cycle on any setting. (tried Winchester 2-3/4 #7-1/2 and #8) Even backed the plug out another full 360 degrees.

At first, at setting 2, they were not ejecting and then getting caught on the front edge as they tried to re-chamber.

At other settings I tried, they simply did not eject and then fully re-chambered.

 

I mentioned it to the range guy and he was nice enough to let me try a couple of slugs and a couple of #1 buckshot.

The slugs (Winchester rifled slugs) ejected and re-chambered fine. (I think I still had it on setting #2)

The #1 buck (Remington 2-3/4) did the same but failed to reset the trigger.

 

My whopping 25 round quota maxed out for the pistol side, I then moved to the rifle side, 50 yards, slugs on setting 2.

Worked fine consistently and again I was surprised at the accuracy. I only had 15 rounds with me, so too soon I was done.

 

On the way out I ran into a guy who I had seen setting up with an S-12 on the pistol side when I was moving to the rifle side.

I told him of my results and he confirmed similar results with birdshot in the past and said he had simply stopped using it.

I have no problem with this, but still need it to cycle #1 or 00 buck reliably.

I am beginning to have regrets for not buying a pump action.

 

I have three ports but don't know the size and I'm not sure I would spend the money on a gunsmith just yet to check them and/or enlarge them.

I had already done some mild polishing of the bolt and hammer but not much else after the conversion.

I must confess that I did the conversion before ever firing the gun. My bad.

 

My plan is to forget the birdshot and try (not sure how yet) to get the #1 or some 00 to cycle reliably or this one is going on the auction block.

Future visits will be to a local indoor range whose rules, get this, are no birdshot, just buckshot and slugs, and no round limit! WHOO HOOO!

(Although the indoor range charges about the same rate, it's hourly, whereas you can spend the entire day at the outdoor range.)

 

The Winchester velocities were 1150 and 1350, the Remington #1 is 1250 and the winchester slugs I think were 1600 (stupidly I discarded the box)

Would increasing the velocity help the cycling problems. Maybe if I switched to 00 high velocity buckshot at 1450 or 1600 like this Hornady's Light Mag Buckshot?

 

HELP! Suggestions are welcome and encouraged, as long as they don't involve suffering the S-12 unto my hinder parts :-O

 

 

Well if you don't want to spend time tinkering on your gun you may have bought the wrong weapon. Check out my thread to determine gas port size and a link to removing the gas block if enlarging the ports is necessary.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=51183

 

Removing the gas block was a breeze and it took me longer to read how to do it than the actual process. I drilled out my gas ports to the factory recommended .093' or 3/32.

 

On my second build I approached things with a new perspective and applied what I had learned from the first build. I can not stress enough that the gun must hand cycles smoothly before you ever hit the range. People on this forum will tell you that you must run so many rounds of high brass to break it in; to me this is nonsense. Running high brass or slugs may eventually smooth things enough to cycle low brass or birdshot but it may never happen and you may give up before this happens. My latest build has 3 gas ports .070", smaller than factory recommended and I purposely didn't touch them just to test my hand cycling theory.

 

I converted my second gun about two weeks ago and spent at least 8-10 hours making sure every contact surface was ground down and polished where appropriate. IMHO the three surfaces that must be addressed are the bolt, the hammer, and the bottom of the bolt carrier. Other facets of the gun need to be addressed as well but these three are critical. The bolt must have a new facet ground so that it reduces friction when it makes contact with the hammer. The hammer must be rounded to reduce friction with the bottom of the bolt carrier and bolt. The bottom of the bolt carrier must be rounded to reduce friction with the hammer. Then polish all these surfaces and get the gun where it hand cycles smoothly with little to no hang ups. Also, take off any forearm rail systems or side mounted optics rails just to eliminate any and all variables. I have personally seen both forearm rail systems and the side mounted optic rail keep two perfectly good guns from running correctly. Had I not seen it I wouldn't have believed it. Once the gun is working correctly you can introduce those variaables back in.

 

I can pick up a Saiga 12 and tell you just how it will perform at the range by the way it hand cycles. The first time to the range with my latest build I only shot about 10 rounds of buckshot and then went to shooting about 150 rounds of Federal 71/2 birdshot without a single FTE as long as I had the correct gas setting selected.

 

I am glad I didn't touch the gas ports on my latest build (.070") because my first build (.093") will cycle Federal bulk on -1, if I put it on #3 it will fling the spent hulls about 8-10ft. The first build has become my SBS project since it cycles so efficiently.

 

Good luck and keep working in a methodical method you will get there!

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

 

"Whatcha need that black rifle fer, boy? Ya can't hunt with it."

At that point, lock & load, draw down & start chasing them..... As you ask... I'm hunting YOU aint I???

 

You're killing me....

 

your avatar is too.... I find it very distracting.... something about the Asian girls....

[Kliegl 304]

I got a Saiga recently. It is still bone stock. From the box, I shot 3 3in #4 turkeys on setting one, then tried a 5 round mag of Remington

2and3/4in #8 birdshot lowbrass.

 

Figured I'd try on number one. It was like shooting a bolt action. No movement from action.

 

So I swapped to setting two, and it cycled, and, over the course of a box, it would stovepipe a few.

 

Second range trip I shot less, so, after say, 40 shots through mine, it will cycle the lowbrass bird shot pretty reliably (not perfectly)

 

For high brass, it chucks those hulls out the side, yells "In Soviet Russia, Saiga shoots YOU!!" and slams another one in like a Communist Rockstar.

 

I'll be here for some mods to this beast sooner or later, but the point of the above, is maybe Federal or Remington would work if Winchester fails.

 

 

As for the other topic, range Nazis suck. Fortunately, you are by definition highly armed, and the only thing they can do is ask you to leave.

 

I have heard of guys going at unpopular times, waiting till no one is there, and rock and rolling all they want. Remember, breaking a range rule

 

is not breaking the law (unless the act itself is illegal) and, if you care not whether you stay, they have no leverage over you.

 

Fortunately, I have a good public range near where I work, and another, private but awesome, range in a town I go to frequently.

 

 

I tend to dislike "club" ranges, since they encourage their members to feel like they own the place, then they start acting like dicks. No one can be an ass to you if

 

no one is there.

[one2za 7]

I emailed the Okeechobee range and asked two questions regarding their rules. Why is the AK-47 only allowed on the more expensive "tactical range" and why is only brass ammo allowed, which forces people who normally use Wolf ammo to spend 4 times as much. Next day I got a pissy letter telling me that if I didn't like their rules, I didn't need to visit them, nothing regarding my questions. Again may I say, WTF??

I emailed him back and asked why, if he had taken the time to email me, was he so defensive and unprofessional and why had he not at least answered my two questions?

I asked him again to please tell me the "why", the "reasons" for these two rules. I have not heard back from him.

 

I don't get people these days. I'm 63 years old and was brought up with notions like "the customer is always right", meaning that a proprietor should treat a customer with utmost respect if he expects any business from them. Unless I get a reasonable response from this guy, they'll never get my business and I'll tell everyone I can to avoid them.

 

 

Post their email and other contact info. I'm sure there are quite a few people on here that have nothing else better to do but spam their email with complaints.

 

Okeechobee Shooting Sports Link

 

Email

 

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[one2za 7]

UPDATE & ANOTHER TRIP TO THE RANGE (good news and bad)

 

 

Well, in order to celebrate tax day , I took off from work, and after some more polishing of the bolt and hammer, headed off for the indoor range this time. (slugs and buckshot allowed only)

She ran beautifully on setting 1 with the following rounds:

 

1. Winchester 2 3/4 1 oz Rifled Hollow Point Slugs - 1600 fps
   
2. Remington 2 3/4 #1 Buckshot - 1250fps
   
3. Winchester 2 3/4 00 Buckshot - 1200fps?
   

 

I was having a ball until suddenly I had a stovepipe. I removed the cartridge but found that the carrier was stuck in the open position. After some fiddling to no avail, I noticed that the bolt hold-open button was no where in sight, having apparently been sucked up into the receiver. Lighting was poor and there wasn't much I could do, so my range time was cut short.

 

At home I managed to free it up. I'm not sure if it happened on its own or if I pressed the button while firing, but I see now that if I don't press straight upwards but happen to pull the button outward slightly, the BHO rocks away from the frame and can slide up past the rail instead of being stopped by it. I bent the leg of the hammer spring to try to keep some pressure against the side of the BHO. It seems a little better, but only time will tell. The slot where the button comes through could stand to be a little narrower so the fit is tighter and wouldn't let the BHO pivot as much, but I can't figure a way to reduce it.

 

Any certain fixes out there for this problem? (I know, wait for the mythical LRBHO right?)

 

Anyway, aside from that, she's a blast to shoot.

Edited April 15, 2010 by one2za

[Wade Pruetz 103]

UPDATE & ANOTHER TRIP TO THE RANGE (good news and bad)

 

 

Well, in order to celebrate tax day , I took off from work, and after some more polishing of the bolt and hammer, headed off for the indoor range this time. (slugs and buckshot allowed only)

She ran beautifully on setting 1 with the following rounds:

 

1. Winchester 2 3/4 1 oz Rifled Hollow Point Slugs - 1600 fps
   
2. Remington 2 3/4 #1 Buckshot - 1250fps
   
3. Winchester 2 3/4 00 Buckshot - 1200fps?
   

 

I was having a ball until suddenly I had a stovepipe. I removed the cartridge but found that the carrier was stuck in the open position. After some fiddling to no avail, I noticed that the bolt hold-open button was no where in sight, having apparently been sucked up into the receiver. Lighting was poor and there wasn't much I could do, so my range time was cut short.

 

At home I managed to free it up. I'm not sure if it happened on its own or if I pressed the button while firing, but I see now that if I don't press straight upwards but happen to pull the button outward slightly, the BHO rocks away from the frame and can slide up past the rail instead of being stopped by it. I bent the leg of the hammer spring to try to keep some pressure against the side of the BHO. It seems a little better, but only time will tell. The slot where the button comes through could stand to be a little narrower so the fit is tighter and wouldn't let the BHO pivot as much, but I can't figure a way to reduce it.

 

Any certain fixes out there for this problem? (I know, wait for the mythical LRBHO right?)

 

Anyway, aside from that, she's a blast to shoot.

 

From what you are describing, the BHO will tilt enough to go past the carrier rail? It sounds like the hammer was ground to narrow if that is the case, it should not have that much play. If this is the case I would shim between the hammer and BHO.