Tac47 Autoplug Video

[Wade Pruetz 103]

While we were out at the Impact Zone we finally broke down and remembered to get some video of the the new Tac47 autoplug in action. You get 3-4 guys together with S12s, AK47s, AK74s, krinks, and a beautiful Draganov, somehow stopping to take video before you run out of ammo always becomes a problem. The video is so so, we were using a small digital camera that only allows 60 seconds of recording but I think the video speaks for itself. In the video we loaded up 7 rounds total, 2 turkey loads, 1 slug, 1 00 buck, and 3 rounds of bulk bird-shot ( both Federal and Winchester 71/2 shot). We did at least 12-15 mag dumps of mixed rounds throughout the course of the afternoon and not one single FTE in both Chris's and Keith's S12s, not to mention the 300-400 rounds we shot while shooting clays. Now my S12 would FTE every so often on the Winchester bulk pack but it does this with the Gun-fixer plug and the regular Tac47 plug as well. I hate the Winchester crap and my S12 loves the Federal bulk so I could care less that it doesn't cycle Winchester 100%. In my opinion and my opinion alone, if your gun currently cycles reliably then the autoplug will make your life a lot easier by allowing you to shoot any mixed mags you want. The Autoplug won't fix a gun with cycling issues nor should it be expected to, it was designed to self regulate and as you can see Tac47 has achieved that goal.

 

AutoPlug.wmv

[madmax4x4 68]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdUeC80jUCY

 

here Let me know if you want me to remove it or edit the description at all.

cant wait for mine

Edited August 23, 2010 by madmax4x4

[tim2shu 48]

When will the tester plugs be send out

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Edited out the post.

 

I guess it's really none of my fucking business.

 

Tony

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

^^^^ me too....

Edited August 23, 2010 by evlblkwpnz

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Tony,

You know a lot more about S12s than I ever will, but in my experience if I take anyones plug stock or aftermarket, select the correct setting for the appropriate load the mixed hulls will not land in the same spot. I don't work for Tac47, Keith, Chris, and I are just good friends that enjoy making things go bang; I don't speak or represent them but to me the critical factor in an autoplug is the ability to fire any load you wish without the bolt carrier slamming the rear trunnion. We have not seen any evidence of trunnion stikes on any of the guns tested, that would not be the case if you loaded up magnum loads on setting #2 and dumped the mag. Again maybe I am missing something but if you can load a magazine with any type of round you wish and fire it without doing damage to the rear trunnion then where the hulls land really doesn't matter.

[Matchgrade 27]

That dark colored high brass fifth shot really flew out faster and farther than the rest. Just my observation from the video.

[geepelton 105]

Would it really matter were the shells fall. As long as it cycles all the different types of ammo and it shows no evidence of it striking the rear trunnion I would think we have a winner. That's just my 2 cents.

[clifton 354]

TAC 47 Industries.

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Tony,

Like I said, I am no expert and don't claim to be. I would always defer to someone like yourself who has been in the gun industry for a whole lot longer than I have even owned guns. As you can imagine our scientific method boils down to putting a couple of thousand rounds down range as fast possible. Our parameters have always been eliminating FTEs without trunnion strikes.

[JamesLi 47]

I think one of the biggest issues here is that while we all want this product, mind you it seems like a godsend, we've gotten little actual info on it outside of the previous small product picture and now a low resolution video that is less than a minute long. I've never heard anything bad about Tac47 before but I'm also having to wait until much later after the release to see if it is worth getting due to the lack of information. Pretty sure everyone would be thrilled to see some technical videos or even a few pictures and an explanation of how it functions.

[tim2shu 48]

For something people are watting for and have someone in the process of making it.

Everyone is being allfully

NEGATIVE!

[BobAsh 582]

For this to be an accurate statement-...All plugs that have been designed to date including our manual plug, gunfixers plug and any other plug out there... would all only be similar to the #2 OEM setting...

 

In my opinion they are, Chris. I haven't yet seen a plug that does anything but decrease the gas (I haven't seen yours, obviously).

 

I have to agree with Tony that if the plug truly regulates the gas, it should operate the action with the same kinetic energy regardless of load. That was our design criteria, although we're not currently working on this type of product.

 

 

That doesn't mean that your product doesn't have merit, and best of luck with it.

Edited August 23, 2010 by BobAsh

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Edited out the post.

 

I guess it's really none of my fucking business.

 

Tony

 

 

We all respect your opinion and look forward to hearing more from you on any topic, I think we all know there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

[Wade Pruetz 103]

I think one of the biggest issues here is that while we all want this product, mind you it seems like a godsend, we've gotten little actual info on it outside of the previous small product picture and now a low resolution video that is less than a minute long. I've never heard anything bad about Tac47 before but I'm also having to wait until much later after the release to see if it is worth getting due to the lack of information. Pretty sure everyone would be thrilled to see some technical videos or even a few pictures and an explanation of how it functions.

 

 

Godsend would be an oversell, this product is not a magic bullet. As for the low res video I agree it is lacking, the forum only allows uploads of 2mb so that is part of the issue, the other problem is we were using a little digital camera instead of a real video camera. I will make a point and drag out our video camera from work and get some nice crisp footage on the next trip out to the range. We may try hosting the videos on my business server so we can increase the length and detail of the footage.

[TacSat 90]

The only magic bullet here is that you dont have look to see where you are set at. Just load and go. The only limit i can see here is the individual shoot gun. as to how light a load it will run. each of us know the cut off point of what we can and can not run. personally i dont run anything lighter than rabbit and squirrel loads. Looking forward to getting mine.

[Shadoh 16]

Wouldnt the different length shells also effect how they ejected?

 

When I go to the range and I shoot up to 100 rounds of El Cheapo when Im done the shell pile is a good 5 foot around. The range limits where you can stand so all shells are shot from pretty much the same spot.

[Wade Pruetz 103]

For this to be an accurate statement-...All plugs that have been designed to date including our manual plug, gunfixers plug and any other plug out there... would all only be similar to the #2 OEM setting...

 

In my opinion they are, Chris. I haven't yet seen a plug that does anything but decrease the gas (I haven't seen yours, obviously).

 

I have to agree with Tony that if the plug truly regulates the gas, it should operate the action with the same kinetic energy regardless of load. That was our design criteria, although we're not currently working on this type of product.

 

 

That doesn't mean that your product doesn't have merit, and best of luck with it.

 

 

Bob,

Thanks for your input! Agreed all plugs stock and otherwise do decrease gas pressure to prevent trunnion strikes as a result of increased pressures from the hotter buck, slug, and magnum rounds.

 

I guess what is in dispute is that I have never seen any plug that will drop rounds of all types in the same general area as you select the appropriate gas setting for the different loads. I would even take that one step further, take a mag of any round you wish, select the correct setting for that round and empty it. What happens? Where do the hulls fall? In my experience some hulls are ejected forward at a 45 degree angle, some come out almost perpendicular to the receiver, and others come out backwards at a 45 degree angle. Granted those that come out in the same general direction tend to land together, but in my experience all rounds don't land in the same general area. Could be my guns though, Keith is always telling me that my backyard conversions are a pieces of crap!

 

With a gun that is really loose and broken in you could get the gun to cycle magnum rounds with little to no gas at all. Obviously with that in mind compromises of design and implementation factored into the final product.

 

Hey if you guys come out with a autoplug that regulates gas so well that all hulls land in the same spot I will line up and put my money down. Of course I will need to get a couple of new shooting partners!

[BobAsh 582]

As I said, Tony didn't literally mean that the shells should land in a circle, just that the bolt/carrier should react with the same kinetic force regardless of load.

 

That being said if Chris's plug eliminates plug turning for 90% of users, then it's going to be a successful product.

[Wade Pruetz 103]

The only magic bullet here is that you dont have look to see where you are set at. Just load and go. The only limit i can see here is the individual shoot gun. as to how light a load it will run. each of us know the cut off point of what we can and can not run. personally i dont run anything lighter than rabbit and squirrel loads. Looking forward to getting mine.

 

 

TacSat,

You hit the nail on the head with this statement.

 

"The only limit i can see here is the individual shoot gun."

 

I own two S12s that I built myself and they really are two different children. They don't shot the same or even feel the same when shooting. It would scare the hell out of me if I was an aftermarket supplier of parts and accessories for these guns, the Russians ideas about tolerances go hand in hand with vodka intake.

 

As I said, Tony didn't literally mean that the shells should land in a circle, just that the bolt/carrier should react with the same kinetic force regardless of load.

 

That being said if Chris's plug eliminates plug turning for 90% of users, then it's going to be a successful product.

 

 

Agreed!

[Wade Pruetz 103]

I love this thread I have been trying to get my post count over 400 for a while but really didn't have much to share since I got the krink fever. Only 32 more post left!

[geepelton 105]

Well with all that said Ninerider thanks for the video. It showed most of what what we wanted to see. Different loads being shot without having to change the settings and it not beating the crap out of the gun. Thanks

[Wade Pruetz 103]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdUeC80jUCY

 

here Let me know if you want me to remove it or edit the description at all.

cant wait for mine

 

 

Thanks, at the risk of showing my stupidity I really couldn't figure out how to get the video in the post like you did. Sure edit away! I have been asked several times when the plugs will be ready; sorry I have no idea that would be a question for Keith or Cliff. Hell Keith being the bastard he is did a plug count before we loaded up the guns at the end of the day and promptly removed the autoplugs from our S12s. Chris almost made it out with one but those Africans are pretty damn smart!

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Well with all that said Ninerider thanks for the video. It showed most of what what we wanted to see. Different loads being shot without having to change the settings and it not beating the crap out of the gun. Thanks

 

 

No problem that was really my intention just to let people see it does exist and it does work even in the 102 degree Texas heat. Better quality next time, I was kind of disappointed once I saw the video uploaded and have learned what not to do next time. If you really knew how long it took us to shoot the crappy little video you would laugh. Like I said we are just a bunch of idiots with guns, putting a video together and getting it uploaded is way above our pay grade.

[geepelton 105]

Well with all that said Ninerider thanks for the video. It showed most of what what we wanted to see. Different loads being shot without having to change the settings and it not beating the crap out of the gun. Thanks

 

 

No problem that was really my intention just to let people see it does exist and it does work even in the 102 degree Texas heat. Better quality next time, I was kind of disappointed once I saw the video uploaded and have learned what not to do next time. If you really knew how long it took us to shoot the crappy little video you would laugh. Like I said we are just a bunch of idiots with guns, putting a video together and getting it uploaded is way above our pay grade.

I here ya, I can't wait to see how it works in 102 degree North Carolina heat. I'm like you with computers, it took me a couple hours and my girfriends help to get my video up of my promag drum dump. I always believe something is better than nothing so the video was good enough for me...

[Gunfixr 76]

Wow, just seeing this thread, so I think I missed something. I kind of get the gist of it, though.

The whole idea with gas regulation is to make the gun work with the same amount of force, despite the differences of force being supplied by the ammunition used. Whether or not the plug self-regulates or is regulated by hand, this is the end goal. The factory plug, and various aftermarket plugs achieve this in varying amounts of success.

If all you want is for the gun to work with everything, then just use the max setting on a regular plug, and never change it. It will work with just about all ammo types, until the gun cycles so fast that the mag cannot keep up. Of course, the higher pressure ammo will beat the shit out of the guns' internals, but it will work.

While I haven't watched the video linked here, but what I've been hearing, and what is suggested here, is that the auto plug allows shooting everything. However, without the equipment to actually measure the bolt carrier speed, the ejection distance is the best way we have to tell how hard the gun is cycling. It should be clear to everyone that the further the empty shell goes, the faster and harder the bolt carrier went rearward. It has also been clearly established that by changing the setting on the various plugs, that the ejection distance of a given ammo type can be reduced, even to the point of failure to eject on low-powered ammo.

Anybody who develops a self-regulating plug can say what they want, but ideally, the plug is supposed to save extra wear and tear on the gun itself, ie., release extra pressure to the gun, allowing just enough to reliably operate the gun without beating it up. It basically works like a wastegate on a turbo.

If the auto plug causes higher powered ammo to eject noticeably further, then it's not working, period. You can install the factory plug, my plug, Tony's plug, or Tac 47s plug, set them for low brass and shoot that and high brass ammo through it and get exactly the same results.

 

 

FWIW, I have one test auto-plug in the field right now. It's in the hands of the person I know who shoots his S12 the most. I gave it to him for free, and told him to "use and abuse" it. I wante to know how well it worked with whatever he wanted to put through it, and how long it would take to clog up. So far, he tells me that low brass birdshot is working fine, and that high brass, 1oz. 1800fps slugs work fine, with the slug empties landing right next to the low brass empties. He's still adjusting it, turning it down, and it's working even better, as he tells me.

 

Will I make more? Maybe, but I'm waiting to see what happens with E-Tacs auto plug. I can't make them and sell them for $25, so, if his works, at that price, I won't bother.

[hellraiser 6]

wow...

 

good video!!! seeing this video really makes buying one easier!!!

 

thanks!!!

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Wow, just seeing this thread, so I think I missed something. I kind of get the gist of it, though.

The whole idea with gas regulation is to make the gun work with the same amount of force, despite the differences of force being supplied by the ammunition used. Whether or not the plug self-regulates or is regulated by hand, this is the end goal. The factory plug, and various aftermarket plugs achieve this in varying amounts of success.

If all you want is for the gun to work with everything, then just use the max setting on a regular plug, and never change it. It will work with just about all ammo types, until the gun cycles so fast that the mag cannot keep up. Of course, the higher pressure ammo will beat the shit out of the guns' internals, but it will work.

While I haven't watched the video linked here, but what I've been hearing, and what is suggested here, is that the auto plug allows shooting everything. However, without the equipment to actually measure the bolt carrier speed, the ejection distance is the best way we have to tell how hard the gun is cycling. It should be clear to everyone that the further the empty shell goes, the faster and harder the bolt carrier went rearward. It has also been clearly established that by changing the setting on the various plugs, that the ejection distance of a given ammo type can be reduced, even to the point of failure to eject on low-powered ammo.

Anybody who develops a self-regulating plug can say what they want, but ideally, the plug is supposed to save extra wear and tear on the gun itself, ie., release extra pressure to the gun, allowing just enough to reliably operate the gun without beating it up. It basically works like a wastegate on a turbo.

If the auto plug causes higher powered ammo to eject noticeably further, then it's not working, period. You can install the factory plug, my plug, Tony's plug, or Tac 47s plug, set them for low brass and shoot that and high brass ammo through it and get exactly the same results.

 

 

FWIW, I have one test auto-plug in the field right now. It's in the hands of the person I know who shoots his S12 the most. I gave it to him for free, and told him to "use and abuse" it. I wante to know how well it worked with whatever he wanted to put through it, and how long it would take to clog up. So far, he tells me that low brass birdshot is working fine, and that high brass, 1oz. 1800fps slugs work fine, with the slug empties landing right next to the low brass empties. He's still adjusting it, turning it down, and it's working even better, as he tells me.

 

Will I make more? Maybe, but I'm waiting to see what happens with E-Tacs auto plug. I can't make them and sell them for $25, so, if his works, at that price, I won't bother.

 

 

For the sake of arguement we have three different rounds of birdshot, birdshot A is rated at 1300FPS, birdshot B is rated at 1250FPS, and birdshot C is rated at 1150FPS. So load up a magazine with birdshot A, B, & C select setting #3 which we would all agree is the setting we use for low brass birdshot. Dump the magazine. What happens? Do all three birdshot loads fall in the same area? Of course they don't because of the higher gas pressures of the different birdshot rounds. We see that some hulls fly further than others and we feel the increased recoil in our shoulders. Now if we can't expect three very similar birdshot rounds to land in the same place how are we going to expect rounds such as slugs and magnum loads to land in the same spot as a birdshot load? Again if your criteria for an autoplug is all hulls must land in the same area then the Tac47 ain't your plug. For me I will never shoot 3" magnum loads, I have no use for them and as stated I don't think these guns were designed for those types of rounds. As long as I can shoot mixed magazines without the bolt carrier slamming into the rear trunnion that is good enough for me.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...We may try hosting the videos on my business server so we can increase the length and detail of the footage.

 

I'm not sure why you think that's necessary. Just upload the video to youtube, (let them host it), as madmax4x4 did for ya here. If you don't know how, just check out their site. I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out within ~5 minutes.

 

Btw, cool product.

[Wade Pruetz 103]

...We may try hosting the videos on my business server so we can increase the length and detail of the footage.

 

I'm not sure why you think that's necessary. Just upload the video to youtube, (let them host it), as madmax4x4 did for ya here. If you don't know how, just check out their site. I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out within ~5 minutes.

 

Btw, cool product.

 

Will do, I have a you tube account but it has been a while.