I think I might be pounding her too hard....

[Floyd9 30]

Yea, I didn't think there was such a thing either, but in this case, perhaps.

After taking my saiga down for cleaning the other night, I checked for undue wear and tear, since it is cycling federal bulk on the "1" setting about 95%. Sure enough, I found some evidence of contact as you can see below.

 

 

 

 

Now, while I don't think this is any sort of extreme wear and tear, I feel I need to either cut the gas down, get a stiffer recoil spring,

maybe install a buffer as well. I was hoping to get away with just a V-Plug, and dial it back for the magnum buckshot and such. I sure

don't want to run the risk of breaking the bolt-carrier, do you guys feel like just a V-Plug would cut the gas back enough to eliminate

contact when running 3" magnum shells? I can only guess on a round count, perhaps 500 rounds of buckshot and slugs, and maybe another 2000 of the low-brass bulk stuff. I know when I first got it, running federal bulk on "1" setting, it wouldn't cycle a single time,

so I guess I have gotten to the point where I am past the break-in period. What do you guys think?

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Perhaps not extreme, But I'd consider it unacceptable wear-n-tear.

ETA: It isn't the area of overall wear or the missing paint that concerns me, it is the one area of rather heavy peening on the rear trunnion.

I'd like to see the other corner too.

How many rounds is life expectancy for the factory springs, I thought I remember hearing 4-5K?

I'd install a stronger recoil spring, then paint the BC/rear trunnion and check for continued contact with full power and/or magnum loads.

Potential with stronger spring to no longer reliably cycle low recoil rounds.

 

I would think that 'any' plug should be able to minimize gas enough to avoid undue contact with full power 2.75".

But perhaps not for 3" magnums, yeah it has a 3" chamber, yeah Ivan loads'em hot too, but then again, Ivan would have spare parts/guns and armorers to fix'em.

 

If the stronger spring will control the 2.75" but not the 3", then try a buffer.

Process of elimination.

Edited November 14, 2011 by ChileRelleno

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

I would try the V plug first. It seems to have some pretty minescule settings. I have to run my 3 port gun on v-plug setting 3 for slugs and buck, and 5 for bulk stuff. IF the v plug don't help try the heavier recoil spring. I know I've seen them for sale.

[yooper14.5 84]

Ive heared that you can put in 1911 springs to achieve stronger or lighter spring tension. Ask somone who knows what a good increased poundage would be.

[Floyd9 30]

Perhaps not extreme, But I'd consider it unacceptable wear-n-tear.

ETA: It isn't the area of overall wear or the missing paint that concerns me, it is the one area of rather heavy peening on the rear trunnion.

I'd like to see the other corner too.

The other corner has absolutely no wear at all, no peening, no paint wear. Rather odd if you ask me. This is why I focused the pic of the rear trunnion on the side that had that particular wear, I doubt you want to see the other side that looks like a factory-stock trunnion. Why one sided? I have no idea. As you can see, the bolt-carrier also doesn't really show why.

[vulcan16 971]

Perhaps not extreme, But I'd consider it unacceptable wear-n-tear.

ETA: It isn't the area of overall wear or the missing paint that concerns me, it is the one area of rather heavy peening on the rear trunnion.

I'd like to see the other corner too.

The other corner has absolutely no wear at all, no peening, no paint wear. Rather odd if you ask me. This is why I focused the pic of the rear trunnion on the side that had that particular wear, I doubt you want to see the other side that looks like a factory-stock trunnion. Why one sided? I have no idea. As you can see, the bolt-carrier also doesn't really show why.

When we check for contact on aircraft stops ,we use clay to see how hard the stops are hitting.

Put some clay on the trunnion next time you shoot to see what areas are being hit the hardest.

Also a good gas plug should help fix any over gassing.

GregM & I went shooting last week. He was using a MD plug & I was using a TAC47 plug. Both worked great, and both fired slugs, and even weak1oz loads. The only difference between the two was Greg had to adjust his between different loads, and the TAC plug just need a quick one time tuning to get the weak stuff to throw out a little farther.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Jetmech

[MT Predator 2,294]

Perhaps not extreme, But I'd consider it unacceptable wear-n-tear.

ETA: It isn't the area of overall wear or the missing paint that concerns me, it is the one area of rather heavy peening on the rear trunnion.

I'd like to see the other corner too.

The other corner has absolutely no wear at all, no peening, no paint wear. Rather odd if you ask me. This is why I focused the pic of the rear trunnion on the side that had that particular wear, I doubt you want to see the other side that looks like a factory-stock trunnion. Why one sided? I have no idea. As you can see, the bolt-carrier also doesn't really show why.

When we check for contact on aircraft stops ,we use clay to see how hard the stops are hitting.

Put some clay on the trunnion next time you shoot to see what areas are being hit the hardest.

Also a good gas plug should help fix any over gassing.

GregM & I went shooting last week. He was using a MD plug & I was using a TAC47 plug. Both worked great, and both fired slugs, and even weak1oz loads. The only difference between the two was Greg had to adjust his between different loads, and the TAC plug just need a quick one time tuning to get the weak stuff to throw out a little farther.

Instead of clay look in the stationary aisle for "Blue Tack". It is a sticky clay like substance designed for hanging posters and such. (Blue in color). I think it might hang together in a weapon better than just clay.

Edited November 14, 2011 by MT Predator

[Sergii 142]

I do not see a problem. Wear is

minimal. This Saiga still get your

grandchildren.

Here you can see the wear after 20K

rounds of heavy http://sergii-guns-ru.livejournal.com/71675.html

Edited November 14, 2011 by Sergii

[vulcan16 971]

Perhaps not extreme, But I'd consider it unacceptable wear-n-tear.

ETA: It isn't the area of overall wear or the missing paint that concerns me, it is the one area of rather heavy peening on the rear trunnion.

I'd like to see the other corner too.

The other corner has absolutely no wear at all, no peening, no paint wear. Rather odd if you ask me. This is why I focused the pic of the rear trunnion on the side that had that particular wear, I doubt you want to see the other side that looks like a factory-stock trunnion. Why one sided? I have no idea. As you can see, the bolt-carrier also doesn't really show why.

When we check for contact on aircraft stops ,we use clay to see how hard the stops are hitting.

Put some clay on the trunnion next time you shoot to see what areas are being hit the hardest.

Also a good gas plug should help fix any over gassing.

GregM & I went shooting last week. He was using a MD plug & I was using a TAC47 plug. Both worked great, and both fired slugs, and even weak1oz loads. The only difference between the two was Greg had to adjust his between different loads, and the TAC plug just need a quick one time tuning to get the weak stuff to throw out a little farther.

Instead of clay look in the stationary aisle for "Blue Tack". It is a sticky clay like substance designed for hanging posters and such. (Blue in color). I think it might hang together in a weapon better than just clay.

Clay will work and also allow you to measure how much harder it might be hitting on one side verses the other side.

Petroleum jelly on the contact side will aid in the moving parts not sticking to the clay,

[Floyd9 30]

I do not see a problem. Wear is

minimal. This Saiga still get your

grandchildren.

Here you can see the wear after 20K

rounds of heavy http:// sergii-guns-

ru.livejournal.com/ 71675.html

Well, that is a little different, and I DO see some of his shit broke, so guess what, I would like to prevent that, since his shit WON'T work....hoping he wasn't with your military and in service at the time....but I'm sure they wouldn't let a gun go that long without service.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

I do not see a problem. Wear is

minimal. This Saiga still get your

grandchildren.

Here you can see the wear after 20K

rounds of heavy http:// sergii-guns-

ru.livejournal.com/ 71675.html

http:// sergii-guns-ru.livejournal.com/ 71675.html

Link doesn't seem to work for me.

[Lidocaine Looney 26]

I do not see a problem. Wear is

minimal. This Saiga still get your

grandchildren.

Here you can see the wear after 20K

rounds of heavy http:// sergii-guns-

ru.livejournal.com/ 71675.html

http:// sergii-guns-ru.livejournal.com/ 71675.html

Link doesn't seem to work for me.

Remove the 2 spaces.. First after the "/" and the second after the ".com/"

[Sergii 142]

Link corrected. So sometimes when I'm

writing is obtained via the phone.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Sergii

[Sergii 142]

I do not see a problem. Wear is

minimal. This Saiga still get your

grandchildren.

Here you can see the wear after 20K

rounds of heavy http:// sergii-guns-

ru.livejournal.com/ 71675.html

Well, that is a little different, and I DO see some of his shit broke, so guess what, I would like to prevent that, since his shit WON'T work....hoping he wasn't with your military and in service at the time....but I'm sure they wouldn't let a gun go that long without service.

 

This is one of my guns. I use it for IPSC.

It's not marginal wear. Another 10-15K

it would have lived.

[DOMIDARKO 5]

+1 on the MD arms V plug. My gun cycled fed bulk out of the box even sometimes on setting 1. I switched to the v plug and can keep 2 3/4 magnum/high brass loads from cycling on the higher settings if I should want.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I do not see a problem. Wear is

minimal. This Saiga still get your

grandchildren.

Here you can see the wear after 20K

rounds of heavy http://sergii-guns-r....com/71675.html

With all respect to you, In my opinion what your gun shows is acceptable wear. What the OP has is not however.

 

I have had a 4 port gun since '08 and have been beating the cock out of it damn near every time I bring it out. I have the elongation on the bolt carrier from the bolt, wear marks on the bolt, extractor, and FCG, but nothing along the lines of what is being shown here on the trunnion.

 

Thats not normal IMHO.

 

I probably have 1k rounds of 3" magnums through mine and my rear trunnion looks better than that(keep in mind this is just me including the goose loads, not the rem sluggers, 00 buck, trap loads, or occasional turkey load thrown through my gun).

 

None of my 3 S-12s exhibit this kind of wear.

 

I highly recommend looking into methods of cutting back on gas, and possibly a stronger recoil spring.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Def don't use any light springs shooting heavy loads. Use an adjustable plug to turn gas if needed, and if you have to for safety's sake, stick a buffer in there and see if it will run ok. If it's wearing unevenly like that it may be that your rear trunnion isn't pefectly square, or even the carrier. Hell they screw up elsewhere half the time so it's hard to say.

[JamesM 3]

Thats what she said.

[Sergii 142]

I do not see a problem. Wear is

minimal. This Saiga still get your

grandchildren.

Here you can see the wear after 20K

rounds of heavy http://sergii-guns-r....com/71675.html

With all respect to you, In my opinion what your gun shows is acceptable wear. What the OP has is not however.

 

I have had a 4 port gun since '08 and have been beating the cock out of it damn near every time I bring it out. I have the elongation on the bolt carrier from the bolt, wear marks on the bolt, extractor, and FCG, but nothing along the lines of what is being shown here on the trunnion.

 

Thats not normal IMHO.

 

I probably have 1k rounds of 3" magnums through mine and my rear trunnion looks better than that(keep in mind this is just me including the goose loads, not the rem sluggers, 00 buck, trap loads, or occasional turkey load thrown through my gun).

 

None of my 3 S-12s exhibit this kind of wear.

 

I highly recommend looking into methods of cutting back on gas, and possibly a stronger recoil spring.

 

My gun has five gas ports. Beat the bolt on the rear of the receiver - this is normal. This is not a problem. Safety margin at the receiver is huge. From the aesthetic side of course is not very pleasant.

 

I have my own requirements for the gun:

1. It should shoot bullets of 28-44gm.

2. It must shoot in any frost.

3. It must shoot in any situation. Regardless of the butt pressed against the shoulder or not.

4. All this must be done without any additional adjustments in the process of shooting.

 

So I will not limit the amount of gases or increase the return spring.

 

In this mode, the gun I live 1.5-2 years. During this time the fires around 20K, and then sent to preventive maintenance.

 

The average user does not have to worry about this deterioration. Especially Saiga has control of gases.

[smartbomb 133]

even with springs or different gas management, it still doesnt answer the basic question of why only one side is getting slammed. i thinking the trunnion is just a hair out of spec on that side. hit it with a dremel and walk away

[yooper14.5 84]

it should wear itself until its square and strikes the entire face rather than just one side, so personally id let it wear.

[G O B 3,516]

This is normal, due to the generous clearances needed to make the gun run flawlessly, and the force transfered to the carrier when the spent round is ejected the carrier will NOT hit the trunnion square. Put a BlackJack buffer in there and forget about it!

[Floyd9 30]

Thanks all for your advice, I think I will just order a v-plug due to the price and go from there. I certainly want to keep the ability to fire off 3" magnums all day long if I so choose, so cutting the gas down at will sounds like the best choice. If I am going to keep it bedside, I will find the setting that standard 2 3/4" buckshot cycles at 100%, and if even a hiccup, will dial in one more setting to be sure. You guys are great.

[Vulcan 14]

Floyd-

 

How many rounds have you put through it and what kinds of loads? You mentioned that you wanted to run 3"... have you done that yet?

 

 

Also- what year model is yours?

 

I've run about 150 or so 1 1/8 bird (setting 2) and some (maybe 40 or so) 00 buck (on setting 1) through my '09 model Saiga. My carrier looks similar in terms of wear but not quite as broad in terms of the contact as yours does on the tip.

[Floyd9 30]

Yea I've ran plenty of 3 inch through it, turkey loads buckshot and slugs. I have a v-plug in it now, seems to have done the trick. Recoil seems more normal and the cycling seems smoother. Don't think I'm getting the double-whammy effect anymore.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

[baggedsvt 1]

Listen to Sergii. These guns are not some tight tolerance precision machine. they have plenty of play in them to allow them to run no matter what type of beating they take. If you really needed to survive on one of these guns in a zombie apocolypse that wear would be nothing to worry about. There would be no forums to post pictures up of how nice our guns look and no one would care it was gettig beat up cause all that matter is it stil cycles no matter how bad that may look. Astethics can be decieving. That thing will run for thousands of rounds. I would worry more about keeping the gas ports glean and the parts oiled rather then that rear trunion.

[Floyd9 30]

Heh, I certianly should have posted this video sooner.....Notice the fire coming from the chamber. 3 Inch slugs. Remington.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

These pics show the wear of my oldest S-12. Its suffered through as a test mule while I tested the Chaos Warthog with over a hundred goose loads and a bunch of turkey loads. At one point I documented a testing of AGP and Promag mags where I was intentionally firing 3" loads on the wrong setting to see if I could get the tab to break off the mags. I buy 3" goose loads when they go on sale by the case.

 

You can see my carrier has struck the rear trunion, but the wear is even across both the trunion, and the carrier. Also of note is that the bolt while having impacted the rear trunion has not indented, nor is there peening or mushrooming of the bolt.

 

Edit to add: This is a 08 import 4 port gun

Edited January 28, 2012 by Nailbomb

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

This is what mine looked like after the first day I shot it. Put a bunch of 3" turkey loads through it on the #2 setting. Had to pound the recoil spring button out with a punch to get the top off afterwards. Filed away the burs and she's been running like a champ ever since. That was back in 2005....

These guns are tough. They are designed to take a beating, just like their close relative, the AK-47.

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2012 by Cobra 76 two