saigadd 9 Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Updated saiga 12 parts count, BATFE letter here 922® Saiga 12 conversion wiki updated http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaShotgunVerifyCompliance http://gunwiki.net/JustTheLaw/RefSaigaATF batfe atf letter saiga 12 parts 10-13-2011.pdf Edited December 9, 2011 by saigadd 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 So the puck counts, cool, but so does the "operating rod" which brings the count up to 15... Damn, it now appears that you cannot achieve 922® in sporting configuration unless you change the puck, barrel attachment, forearm, and mag to U.S. made... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 im still good Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Yay for a completely arbitrary changing of what is legal and not! Horray for the victimless 922R BS. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 In before someone says the letter only applies to the sender... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigadd 9 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 So the puck counts, cool, but so does the "operating rod" which brings the count up to 15... Damn, it now appears that you cannot achieve 922® in sporting configuration unless you change the puck, barrel attachment, forearm, and mag to U.S. made... Actually, it should be 16. They forgot about the muzzle device, unless the thread protector is not counted. I would not trust that it isn't. Add a foreign pistol grip and you're up to 17... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 how does this affect guns that were already converted? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigadd 9 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 In before someone says the letter only applies to the sender... LOL how does this affect guns that were already converted? I'm not lawyer, but if you do not have the required # of parts then you are not in compliance with the law. They probably won't come and get the owners and their guns, but if it were me I would correct the deficiencies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Good point, without the muzzle device, I believe it to be impossible to achieve 922r compliance in sporting configuration now... As I understand it, you cannot "add" to a weapon's parts count. Since it didn't come with a pistol grip, any grip added would be "free". If I am wrong about how I understand this, someone PLEASE let me know! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 So the puck counts, cool, but so does the "operating rod" which brings the count up to 15... Damn, it now appears that you cannot achieve 922® in sporting configuration unless you change the puck, barrel attachment, forearm, and mag to U.S. made... Actually, it should be 16. They forgot about the muzzle device, unless the thread protector is not counted. I would not trust that it isn't. Add a foreign pistol grip and you're up to 17... I wouldn't trust that it does count as a 922r part now either. I would write them back and ask again. Lets see what else the experts forget the next time around. Good point, without the muzzle device, I believe it to be impossible to achieve 922r compliance in sporting configuration now... As I understand it, you cannot "add" to a weapon's parts count. Since it didn't come with a pistol grip, any grip added would be "free". If I am wrong about how I understand this, someone PLEASE let me know! I'm pretty sure you can add. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 It doesn't matter how many US parts you put on the gun, only the number of foreign parts on the ATF's top 20 list. There was an earlier ATF letter stating that the thread protector was not a muzzle attachment. There is no mention of muzzle "device" in 922r, only muzzle attachment. Tony 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salt1219 176 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 just a matter of time till you have to have 100% american parts 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonking 149 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I guess I'm currently illegal. I feel so rebellious- guess the five round mags have to go out, and the 8 and 12 round mags have to go in until I get a new gas puck. Thanks for making the world a safer place ATF. "Hey, while we're using tax money to supply the Cartel with guns to kill federal agents, lets redefine 922r for saiga shotgun. That's the real menace." 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobRez 1,895 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 just a matter of time till you have to have 100% american parts Are there legal/copyright issues with an American company making clones?? There are many makers of AR-15 rifles, Chinese, Yugo, Romanian, etc. AK 47's.....????? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 i just want to make sure i am doing this right too. if i use the 5 round mag w a pistol grip, i do not need to worry about 922r since the pistol grip is sporting? if i use my md20, i am in need of 922r correct? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonking 149 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 i just want to make sure i am doing this right too. if i use the 5 round mag w a pistol grip, i do not need to worry about 922r since the pistol grip is sporting? if i use my md20, i am in need of 922r correct? If you want to convert your gun to a pistol grip, you need at least 5 us parts in it (not including the PG or Muzzle device). The link posted above has little click functions that tell your if you are a fugitive from justice. Here it is again. http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaShotgunVerifyCompliance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 i just want to make sure i am doing this right too. if i use the 5 round mag w a pistol grip, i do not need to worry about 922r since the pistol grip is sporting? if i use my md20, i am in need of 922r correct? Oh man... I forgot they said pistol grips were sporting. thats another can of worms huh? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 This would make my gun only compliant with US mags. I guess now I need to buy two more pointless parts. I think we will see a lot more requests for information about changing out the "operating rod" for people like me who want to keep foreign furniture. Tony-- I noticed the lack of asterisk on the muzzle device. As you understand things, does adding a US accessory like a flash hider or your shark break automatically invoke 922r? Would using the Russian choke or flash hider count as a device? That has been an unclear grey area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Where in the fuck are you getting "device" at? It clearly states "attachment". Can we get this straight or not? Tony 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Fine then, "attachment" now answer the question! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roachtron 49 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I think the answer would be yes the muzzle attachment does count as a foreign part.If it is made out of country. "no person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of certain imported parts." The parts are listed and muzzle attachment is among them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 wait, I too forgot about the pg being sporting. soo... that means we can have a completely russian rig as long as we do not use a drum? oh! what round count exits the sporting range?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glennhmd 23 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 thank God these trivial laws dont apply to where i live. we can put anything we like, long barrel, short barrel, as long as the serial numbers match and we're pretty much GTG. oh but i forgot, we dont have aftermarket parts here so we tend to stay pretty much stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 wait, I too forgot about the pg being sporting. soo... that means we can have a completely russian rig as long as we do not use a drum? oh! what round count exits the sporting range?? with shotguns, over 5 rounds in a mag is non sporting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 thank God these trivial laws dont apply to where i live. we can put anything we like, long barrel, short barrel, as long as the serial numbers match and we're pretty much GTG. oh but i forgot, we dont have aftermarket parts here so we tend to stay pretty much stock. That's like being trapped in a warehouse full of fresh cookies.... with no milk to drink. I may be going to Manilla next year. Too bad I can't make some luggage out of Saiga 12 mags and parts..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 On the ATF shotgun study, they listed a shotgun flash hider as a non-sporting feature, but also stated that a muzzle brake was sporting. Further, they said if the attachment acted as both a flash hider and a brake, then it was non-sporting as well. There was no mention of a choke, but since chokes are almost always used on sporting guns, I would imagine that it would be considered sporting. Tony 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brucey 5 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 wait, I too forgot about the pg being sporting. soo... that means we can have a completely russian rig as long as we do not use a drum? oh! what round count exits the sporting range?? I'm 922r compliant with US mags, but still need an extra part with the foreign mags. But since a pistol grip is sporting now, and I don't have a folding stock... And the only foreign mags I have are 5 rounders.. So my gun is sporting with the 5 rounders in, and 922r does not apply. But with the 10 round mags in, 922r does apply, but since they are US made, I'm still following the law. Oh man, I'm so confused. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fokkertriplane 0 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Well I've read over the gun wiki pages listed in this thread. However, I'm new to Saiga shotguns and I'm confused as to when I need to be 922® compliant and when I don't, and how to make the shotgun 922® compliant. For example, I recently purchased my first Saiga shotgun and want to move the FCG forward, add a pistol grip, and change the buttstock (including a buffer tube, pig nose adapter, and internal block adapter). Would I then not be compliant? What else would I need to do to become compliant? Get a new handguard? Add a autoplug? Also, I currently own only the 5 round magazine the shotgun came with. I apologize for being such a noob! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MaloDave 19 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I am down to 6 Foreign parts, 5, if I change out the Operating Rod for the Cadiz HD one I have. Malodave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rnemhrd 165 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 \ I think we will see a lot more requests for information about changing out the "operating rod" for people like me who want to keep foreign furniture. \ I would think. I have been thinking about doing this anyway. Guess if I fuck up you will see a parts sale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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